I am about to start the next item on the project list, refinishing the handrails and bow pulpit insert. I am planning to remove the existing varnish using a heat gun and scrapers and think this will take a couple of weeks working part time. The concern I have is this, do I have to worry about the wood that has had the old varnish removed being exposed to the atmosphere? If it's only two - three weeks before I start to apply the new varnish is that an issue. Will the final sanding take care of the wood that has been exposed. There are areas where the oil varnish has peeled and cracked hence the need to remove it and start from bare wood.
Refinishing Handrails
- Thread starter dkasprzak
- Start date
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We have much the same situation with our boat, which has a rainforest of teak on the exterior. Full-time work limits the time we have to spend maintaining the wood.
If the time between removing the old finish with heat and scrapers and the final sanding prior to putting on the first coat of finish is a couple of weeks or so I think you're just fine, particularly in a drier climate.
Up here we have rain to contend with, but as long as the wood is completely dry before final sanding and the start of finish application we've never had a problem. However we do try to get the first application of finish on as soon as possible after the old finish removal and surface prep. It's not always possible, however.
After finish removal and surface prep we always apply a couple of coats of CPES to seal the upper layer of raw wood cells with epoxy before we start to apply the finish we use, which is Bristol.
A technique I learned from the founder of the Grand Banks Owners forum is to apply the first coat of finish--- whatever it happens to be--- over the last coat of CPES while the CPES is still a bit tacky. This adheres the first coat of finish even tighter and helps resist moisture penetration under the finish which of course is what causes problems with the finish later on.
If the time between removing the old finish with heat and scrapers and the final sanding prior to putting on the first coat of finish is a couple of weeks or so I think you're just fine, particularly in a drier climate.
Up here we have rain to contend with, but as long as the wood is completely dry before final sanding and the start of finish application we've never had a problem. However we do try to get the first application of finish on as soon as possible after the old finish removal and surface prep. It's not always possible, however.
After finish removal and surface prep we always apply a couple of coats of CPES to seal the upper layer of raw wood cells with epoxy before we start to apply the finish we use, which is Bristol.
A technique I learned from the founder of the Grand Banks Owners forum is to apply the first coat of finish--- whatever it happens to be--- over the last coat of CPES while the CPES is still a bit tacky. This adheres the first coat of finish even tighter and helps resist moisture penetration under the finish which of course is what causes problems with the finish later on.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
What kind of wood are we talk'in about? Teak can be exposed for fairly long periods of time .. a year or more in the PNW. We let our oiled teak sit out for two years + on the hard. It was black but Chris found a way to bring it back to the usual glowing teak.
Mahogany type woods less so but still way ahead of most in this regard.
For a scraper I recomend the tungston carbide blades. Takes a LONG time to make them dull. Use the blade that are slightly curved.
Mahogany type woods less so but still way ahead of most in this regard.
For a scraper I recomend the tungston carbide blades. Takes a LONG time to make them dull. Use the blade that are slightly curved.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. dk. Pretty well what Mr. Marin suggests regards scraping/sanding. WE prefer Cetol (gloss) simply for it's ease of application and re-coat BUT the choice is yours and I'm not getting into a "discussion" about finishes. Regarding scrapers...Yes, one can use a carbide scraper but unless you have specialized equipment, they are nigh on impossible to re-sharpen. We've found a plain ordinary steel scraper, kept very sharp (a few passes with a file suffices), to be the best, both in low $$ and high performance.
Round off the outside corners to minimize gouging.
Mr. dk. Pretty well what Mr. Marin suggests regards scraping/sanding. WE prefer Cetol (gloss) simply for it's ease of application and re-coat BUT the choice is yours and I'm not getting into a "discussion" about finishes. Regarding scrapers...Yes, one can use a carbide scraper but unless you have specialized equipment, they are nigh on impossible to re-sharpen. We've found a plain ordinary steel scraper, kept very sharp (a few passes with a file suffices), to be the best, both in low $$ and high performance.
Round off the outside corners to minimize gouging.
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Capt.Bill11
Guru
It shouldn't take you that long to scrape it down. Once you get the technique down it goes pretty fast.
But if you end up leaving it bare for a week or more you more than likely will need to do a final sanding.
And its not just a sharp scraper you want to use. But one that is sharp and has a burnished, or rolled edge. The burnished edge is what allows the scraper to act like a plane and peal off wood. Leaving a very, very smooth surface that minimizes the amount of sanding you have to do. You can form the edge with a burnishing tool, screw driver, tail end of a file, etc.
In fact it's my understanding that old school cabinet makers in Japan use no sand paper at all and only scrapers to get their super smooth wood surfaces.
But if you end up leaving it bare for a week or more you more than likely will need to do a final sanding.
And its not just a sharp scraper you want to use. But one that is sharp and has a burnished, or rolled edge. The burnished edge is what allows the scraper to act like a plane and peal off wood. Leaving a very, very smooth surface that minimizes the amount of sanding you have to do. You can form the edge with a burnishing tool, screw driver, tail end of a file, etc.
In fact it's my understanding that old school cabinet makers in Japan use no sand paper at all and only scrapers to get their super smooth wood surfaces.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Greetings,
Mr. dk. Pretty well what Mr. Marin suggests regards scraping/sanding. WE prefer Cetol (gloss) simply for it's ease of application and re-coat BUT the choice is yours and I'm not getting into a "discussion" about finishes. Regarding scrapers...Yes, one can use a carbide scraper but unless you have specialized equipment, they are nigh on impossible to re-sharpen. We've found a plain ordinary steel scraper, kept very sharp (a few passes with a file suffices), to be the best, both in low $$ and high performance.
Round off the outside corners to minimize gouging.
RT you already started a discussion about finishes. What was that about Cetol? I DID avoid that by not mentioning type of finish. For a dollar I'll disclose though. Re the TC blades. I more often go old school but I don't know if I'll ever buy a carbon steel blade again. The TC blades last so long I don't ever remember throwing one out.
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. mb. I agree the tungsten carbide (TC) blades DO last a goodly time. My only point is you can't readily sharpen them. Last year we undertook a refurbish of our vessel. Caprail, handrail, window and door moldings, doors, hatches and initial scrape down of fairing compound...LOTS of scraper usage all with tools similar to what I posted the picture of above. The one fairly new TC scraper I did have wasn't sharp enough for my liking and a regular grinding wheel just wouldn't sharpen it.
I'm sure between the two types, Mr. dk can make his own choices.
Mr. mb. I agree the tungsten carbide (TC) blades DO last a goodly time. My only point is you can't readily sharpen them. Last year we undertook a refurbish of our vessel. Caprail, handrail, window and door moldings, doors, hatches and initial scrape down of fairing compound...LOTS of scraper usage all with tools similar to what I posted the picture of above. The one fairly new TC scraper I did have wasn't sharp enough for my liking and a regular grinding wheel just wouldn't sharpen it.
I'm sure between the two types, Mr. dk can make his own choices.
FF
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To speed up old varnish removal, purchase a couple of flat scrapers and use a grinding wheel to shape them to the curve of the rail.
Usually 2 are required , then sharpen them and be sure to create a good "hook" with a burnishing tool.
Usually 2 are required , then sharpen them and be sure to create a good "hook" with a burnishing tool.
Russ Borman
Veteran Member
To Manyboats would love to know how{Chris found a way to bring it back to the usual glowing teak}. I have teak that's been exposed for to long.
Thanks
Thanks
Hello Russ,
Our teak was totally black after being out in the open in Alaska & then after moving back here to Washington...tools you will need ready are: mixing container that you hold onto easy, but deep enough to contain mix such as a plastic coffee can, rubber gloves, paint brush, scraper, putty knife, and a separate can of water with an old rag for wiping off the mix after it has softened & been scraped off. Mix cider vinegar, hydrogen peroxide,and baking soda, (1 cup each). The baking soda will fizz up, so put it in last. Doing small stretches of your rail (1-2') at a time, brush the mix onto your rail but don't let it get onto any other surfaces! Let set just long enough to soften the old material, then scrape it off gently down to the bare wood. Wipe surface off with water & continue to next section...you can go back over it until wood looks free of varnish, then let dry and sand, etc. to prep it for new varnish or whatever. Be sure to wipe off with water & clean up any of the mix well from any other areas it might have dripped onto as you go! It worked for me and wasn't expensive. This mix works well for lots of outdoor items and just rinses off, but I am careful since it could damage painted surfaces, but it didn't seem to if I cleaned up with water right away. Hope it works well for you too. ChrissyM.
Our teak was totally black after being out in the open in Alaska & then after moving back here to Washington...tools you will need ready are: mixing container that you hold onto easy, but deep enough to contain mix such as a plastic coffee can, rubber gloves, paint brush, scraper, putty knife, and a separate can of water with an old rag for wiping off the mix after it has softened & been scraped off. Mix cider vinegar, hydrogen peroxide,and baking soda, (1 cup each). The baking soda will fizz up, so put it in last. Doing small stretches of your rail (1-2') at a time, brush the mix onto your rail but don't let it get onto any other surfaces! Let set just long enough to soften the old material, then scrape it off gently down to the bare wood. Wipe surface off with water & continue to next section...you can go back over it until wood looks free of varnish, then let dry and sand, etc. to prep it for new varnish or whatever. Be sure to wipe off with water & clean up any of the mix well from any other areas it might have dripped onto as you go! It worked for me and wasn't expensive. This mix works well for lots of outdoor items and just rinses off, but I am careful since it could damage painted surfaces, but it didn't seem to if I cleaned up with water right away. Hope it works well for you too. ChrissyM.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Russ Borman
Veteran Member
Thanks I will give it a try next weekend
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BruceK
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Refinishing my 35yo side name boards, after heat gun scraping the old varnish and smooth sanding, I applied a teak color stain, just before multiple coats of Cetol. It nicely reproduced the color of "green teak" without the heavy sanding, and the teak looks good under varnish. How it lasts will emerge over time,should work on cap rails too if the need was there.
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