Regarding Boat Selection

[Flak]

Greetings,

So I have been lurking for a while, reading, learning and the like. We are at the point where it is time to start narrowing down our selection and find the boat we want. I've secured a slip already along the northern Gulf Coast. The plan is to purchase in the next year, and start slow. Ultimately, we want to do the Great Loop, to get some experience, then head to the Bahamas and beyond, in that order.

Our experience is limited to sailboats only at this point.

So, I was in love with the Kadey-Krogan Manatee. Would be just the wife and I, she loved the walk around bed, and a good used one was in our price range. Then, I read somewhere, that the lack of outside access along the sides was a big concern for locks and the like. Suddenly it feels all so very intimidating.

So.. you know the plan, lets say the budget is max'd at $200k (USD). Wife and I are in our mid-late 40's, in good health.

I'm not worried about extra cabins. I don't want people to stay. The wife wants a walk around bed in the cabin.

What are some suggestions of boats to look at, given both the lack of experience, and the Great Loop and eventual Bahamas (possibly further) run?

I know there will be a ton of opinions, and in truth, that is what I am hoping for. But, for example, if 17 people say Albin, and 3 people say Mainship, then it gives us a place to start.

Thanks in advance.

Feel free to ask questions, I'll do my best to answer.

 

[DavidM]

The Krogen Manatee will definitely be a problem with locking and docking with no side decks. But you can't beat the cabin size that results.

Another Krogen boat that you should consider is the Krogen 42. Some have the walk around Queen bed, side decks and a nice main salon. It is also a blue water capable boat whereas the Manatee is not. You should be able to find one in your price range.

David

 

[Porgy]

There are a lot of boats lacking side decks that negotiate locks all the time as well as getting into and out of slips. Just find out what system works for you.

Cruise guide author Skipper Bob and his wife had a Manatee for years and traveled the Erie and Champlain Canals frequently. If you like everything else about a boat don’t be put off by one characteristic that factors in a small part of the time.

 

[ksanders]

There are a lot of boats lacking side decks that negotiate locks all the time as well as getting into and out of slips. Just find out what system works for you.

Cruise guide author Skipper Bob and his wife had a Manatee for years and traveled the Erie and Champlain Canals frequently. If you like everything else about a boat don’t be put off by one characteristic that factors in a small part of the time.

Yep, folks without side decks just use the interior to traverse between line handling areas like the cockpit and foredeck.

 

[jimdavi]

Although you will read and hear many absolutes, everything is a trade-off on a boat, and I’ve found few show stoppers. Seek many sources for sound advise, including much good advice here.

 

[firehoser75]

Flak,
Good advice from posters so far. Boats, especially if you are under "budget constraints" (and really who isn't), are a really a compromise. It is hard to get all of your wants and likes in one package! Full side decks are not absolutely necessary, but surely are helpful in locks. Some boats are easier to deal with when going into locks, docking, etc. than others, and some without side decks are workable. It is a matter of learning how to "make it work" and what techniques make it as easy as possible for your boat. Ask owners of boats without side decks how they like it, and how they deal with these issues. Most boat owners are talkative when it comes to their boats.
I suggest starting a boat search by making list of feaures. Think about how you envision using your boat, and it sounds like you have done at least some of this. Then makes lists of "must have", nice to have, and importantly do not want. Examples of "do not want" for me were screwed down teak decks, lost of exterior wood (trim), and twin engines. Different strokes.......
Other boats you could consider include Nordic Tug 32/34 or 37 if fits budget, American Tug 34, Grand Banks, Monk 36, etc.

Again, most boats will end up being some sort of compromise, not being a "perfect" fit.

Also, remember buying the boat is one thing, operating, repairing, and maintaining a boat are not inexpensive and end up cost quite a bit more than most anticipate, so better to be expecting that.
Good luck.

 

[Shrew]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the manatee. First off, do you plan on doing a lot of locking??

Secondly, there is access to the bow and there is access in the cockpit. Unless you're locking by yourself, one person stands out front, one person stands in the cockpit. you shouldn't need to be running from bow to aft and back again.

 

[rslifkin]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the manatee. First off, do you plan on doing a lot of locking??

Secondly, there is access to the bow and there is access in the cockpit. Unless you're locking by yourself, one person stands out front, one person stands in the cockpit. you shouldn't need to be running from bow to aft and back again.

I agree that lack of side decks isn't much of an issue for locks. As long as you've got appropriate places to stand and can get to at least one of them easily from the helm, you're all set.



It's docking short handed in high winds where I really like full side decks. Gives the admiral more options for where to be and allows her to do more before reaching the point where I have to leave the helm to assist.

 

[kthoennes]

Good advice here so far, but I'd second Firehoser -- sounds like you have a preference for make or type and that's fine. I wanted and started shopping for a trawler or something more similar to the manatee or trawler myself too, but after a couple years shopping we settled on a big white tennis shoe (cruiser) instead and have no regrets at all. Wish it had less windage (lower profile) and wish it had diesels, but acres of room, lots of headroom, pleasure to handle, easy to walk forward to the bow and all around the sides for line handling. And if I keep it slow it's actually not too bad on gas (for two 454's). Doesn't have a walk around master so I'm not necessarily recommending it for you, but just making the point that your ultimate boat may not be what you envision now.

 

[Comodave]

I would start by looking at as many boats as you can. Make lists of things you like and dislike. Then make a list of the must haves and nice to haves, also a list of must not haves. Then you can begin to narrow your search down. One thing I don’t think you said was what is your preferred cruising speed? If slow is ok then most trawlers will work, but if you want speed some of the thime then slow trawlers are out. We sold our trawler since we decided we wanted something faster. We wanted a smaller boat with gas engines since there are no marine diesel mechanics here. We ended up with a larger boat with twice as big diesels. We bought a Formula 41PC. It has one big downside, the bow deck access is bad and the bow rails are short. We bought the boat anyway and so far love. To fix the bow access problem I put bow and stern thrusters on the boat so my wife will not have to go on the bow while docking. I am also adding a swim platform extension, should arrive tomorrow, so it will be easier to get on and off the stern. I don’t mind doing some extensive work on my boats, actually I enjoy it. So we could buy the Formula and do some work on it so that it will work for us. Good luck in the search.

 

[BandB]

Greetings,

So I have been lurking for a while, reading, learning and the like. We are at the point where it is time to start narrowing down our selection and find the boat we want. I've secured a slip already along the northern Gulf Coast. The plan is to purchase in the next year, and start slow. Ultimately, we want to do the Great Loop, to get some experience, then head to the Bahamas and beyond, in that order.

Our experience is limited to sailboats only at this point.

So, I was in love with the Kadey-Krogan Manatee. Would be just the wife and I, she loved the walk around bed, and a good used one was in our price range. Then, I read somewhere, that the lack of outside access along the sides was a big concern for locks and the like. Suddenly it feels all so very intimidating.

So.. you know the plan, lets say the budget is max'd at $200k (USD). Wife and I are in our mid-late 40's, in good health.

I'm not worried about extra cabins. I don't want people to stay. The wife wants a walk around bed in the cabin.

What are some suggestions of boats to look at, given both the lack of experience, and the Great Loop and eventual Bahamas (possibly further) run?

I know there will be a ton of opinions, and in truth, that is what I am hoping for. But, for example, if 17 people say Albin, and 3 people say Mainship, then it gives us a place to start.

Thanks in advance.

Feel free to ask questions, I'll do my best to answer.

Wifey B: First question is are you both working land jobs or what is your situation there? Also, any kids? How much time per year do you have to boat?

I ask that because you talk about the loop as your first plan.

Do not even think about what brand yet. Think about how you intend to use it and what requirements you have. Look at every boat on Yacht World that even comes close to your size and price range and do that together, even at night in bed, just making notes of things you like and don't like. Do you like galley up or down or do you care? Do you like wider salons with only one or no side deck? Do you want some bow seating? Do you like a master stateroom in the bow or must it be mid? Do you like a ladder to the bridge or must it be stairs? Do you like a bridge? What speed would you like? Typically the less time per year you have the faster you might want to move.

Do not narrow it down to a type, to tugs, or trawlers of full displacement or semi until you've been through all the analysis.

Don't limit conversations to trawler forum. This is a small subset of boaters.

I would strongly encourage some chartering. Two good charter operators on the west coast of FL in Southwest and Chitwood. Or charter elsewhere, perhaps in the Bahamas from Moorings or in the PNW. Maybe even do some day rentals, readily available in various areas, especially South FL. Spend enough time on boats to say, "Oh, I'd never want that" or "I love that feature." You're still not looking for a specific boat, but features. No labels. Features, Requirements.

And do not think of it as the boat for a lifetime, to do anything and everything you want. Think of the next 5 to 7 years, think of your 95% use. If one weekend a year you'll have 8 to sleep, then don't think of that, just buy a bunch of air mattresses and toss them on the floor. If you dream of Jamaica in 20 years, then not relevant today.

As to all you'll read here. Listen to it all. Dismiss it all. Do both at the same time. It's all relevant, but only you can decide what has real value to you.

 

[FWT]

Agree with all of the above

But just to add an additional issue on the locks and decks topic. A door at the helm station to the decks, at least on one side of the boat is important.

 

[RedRascal]

Wifey B: ...
I would strongly encourage some chartering. Two good charter operators on the west coast of FL in Southwest and Chitwood. Or charter elsewhere, perhaps in the Bahamas from Moorings or in the PNW....

+1 on chartering

+1 on touring various boats

And if you have friends or acquaintances with boats offer to help them out when they are short handed. Even if it's helping them make a run to the fuel dock to top off the tanks it gives you exposure to maneuvering and docking. Enjoy your search and good luck!

 

[O C Diver]

Lots of Manatees have looped. When it comes to locking, you adapt to what you have. My boat doesn't have side decks and I travel solo almost all the time. Between the Great Loop, Champlain canal, Dismal Swamp, Okeechobee waterway and a few others, I probably locked 400 times without side decks. In a choice between a second person for lines or side decks, most people who have locked would pick the second person.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

On the side decks vs locks thing, here's an example of us departing a lock earlier this year. We had a friend with us that day, so 3 crew. Normally the admiral would be on the bow and I'd handle things at the stern (as that's the only place you can get to quickly from the helm short of diving down the stairs into the salon and out the side door). So for locks, the side decks are mostly irrelevant.

 

[backinblue]

There are too many boats that fit your limited criteria. You should try to think about must-haves (walk around queen bed is a good example) but also engine type, single or dual, age of boat, hours on engines, electronics, flybridge or not, other options, etc.

Also, coming from sailing like many of us, it's tempting to say "I don't need to go fast, 7 knots in a straight line is way faster than sailing". Many are very happy traveling all day at displacement speeds, while others are more happy cruising at 20-30 knts to get where they are going faster. If you are in your 40's and working, that may be more important than someone retired who can afford much more time. I'm just warning you that it can be a trap and you may end up regretting your 10 knt max speed even if it sounds fast today.

 

[BandB]

There are too many boats that fit your limited criteria. You should try to think about must-haves (walk around queen bed is a good example) but also engine type, single or dual, age of boat, hours on engines, electronics, flybridge or not, other options, etc.

Also, coming from sailing like many of us, it's tempting to say "I don't need to go fast, 7 knots in a straight line is way faster than sailing". Many are very happy traveling all day at displacement speeds, while others are more happy cruising at 20-30 knts to get where they are going faster. If you are in your 40's and working, that may be more important than someone retired who can afford much more time. I'm just warning you that it can be a trap and you may end up regretting your 10 knt max speed even if it sounds fast today.

Wifey B: Yes, I didn't mention speed because of my love for speed, but because of working families with limited time. Easy to say you're not in any hurry, but some must be. I'll also add that 7 knots in a sailboat feels faster than 10 knots in a power boat. Let me rephrase that, 7 knots under sail in a sailboat feels faster. 7 knots in a sailboat under power just feels.......oh I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.......icky....like why.....guess I haven't powered a sail boat enough or something. Of course even sailing I prefer faster.

Just saying if you only have two weeks at a time, speed is more important than if you have all the time and nowhere to be.

 

[backinblue]

Wifey B: Yes, I didn't mention speed because of my love for speed, but because of working families with limited time. Easy to say you're not in any hurry, but some must be. I'll also add that 7 knots in a sailboat feels faster than 10 knots in a power boat. Let me rephrase that, 7 knots under sail in a sailboat feels faster. 7 knots in a sailboat under power just feels.......oh I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.......icky....like why.....guess I haven't powered a sail boat enough or something. Of course even sailing I prefer faster.

Just saying if you only have two weeks at a time, speed is more important than if you have all the time and nowhere to be.

Wifey, you are correct. 7 knts under sail feels very fast. I think it's because you are more aware of the forces driving the boat as well as being close to the water and hearing it rush by. I only mention speed because as a sailor and buying a first power boat it's easy to rationalize that you don't need to go fast. There were days where I was happy sailing all day at 5 knts. Now, motoring at a respectable 16 knts for a couple hours, I envy those going by at 25 knts. There are plenty of members here that will say that motoring at slow speed all day is heaven. I guess it's a personal thing. Sailing at 7 knts was a thrill, motoring at that speed is kind of boring. For me anyway, the journey truly was the destination when sailing, not as much when motoring. It's just an easy trap for a first time motorboat buyer with only sailboat ownership to not put much value on speed.

 

[healhustler]

I’ve heard that same thing about the issue of KK Manatees not having side decks. I’ve locked the Okeechobee waterway solo numerous times and had no issues with mine. The Manatee pictured below has been around the loop 31 times so far without an issue. Maybe you’d like to talk to him. Yes, I’ve heard a lot about this design problem, but never from a Manatee owner. Why is that? It must be something we try to keep a secret so loopers will keep buying and looping in our boats.

Seriously though, there are plenty of reasons why you shouldn’t buy a Manatee, (not the least of which that it is a boat). Locking isn’t one of them.

 

[backinblue]

I've never been on a Manatee, but when boat shopping, one of the things that was a deal-breaker for me was very narrow sidedecks or lack of railings and hand-holds, that would make going forward quickly a difficult or unsafe thing to do. Probably due to my previous sailing-only experience, where it was a natural thing to get to the bow quickly and easily when needed.

 

[BandB]

I’ve heard that same thing about the issue of KK Manatees not having side decks. I’ve locked the Okeechobee waterway solo numerous times and had no issues with mine. The Manatee pictured below has been around the loop 31 times so far without an issue. Maybe you’d like to talk to him. Yes, I’ve heard a lot about this design problem, but never from a Manatee owner. Why is that? It must be something we try to keep a secret so loopers will keep buying and looping in our boats.

Seriously though, there are plenty of reasons why you shouldn’t buy a Manatee, (not the least of which that it is a boat). Locking isn’t one of them.

Wifey B: Healhustler photoshops his Manatee through locks and canals and even places you wouldn't imagine. :lol:

 

[markpierce]

Sorry. I'd never, ever considered a Manatee. Low, nearly floating-dock-high, 360-degree decks and railings are my highest boat-selection criteria. Manatees sacrifice too much to maximize interior volume.

 

[Hygge]

We have a Ranger Tug 29. A great boat for a couple without a ton of experience (bow/stern thrustors, easily managed -I single handle it quite a bit), and pretty complete (radar, nav, auto pilot, etc. etc). I would not hesitate to run over to the Bahamas on a calm day. A RT25 went to Cuba. Nice boat for a couple

 

[Scooby5959]

Sorry. I'd never, ever considered a Manatee. Low, nearly floating-dock-high, 360-degree decks and railings are my highest boat-selection criteria. Manatees sacrifice too much to maximize interior volume.

I couldn’t agree more I would recommend a boat exactly like you’re coot. In my opinion those are the perfect boat for anything ,I just love your boat .as a sidenote who would ever paint a boat orange especially a manatee which isn’t the best looking boat to begin with ,just my opinion I’m sure I offended him but I can’t help myself

 

[FF]

Locks on the loop, made for large commercial traffic are easiest handled with a large (15-18inch) cleat that is midship and easy to get to.
The boat ties to a floating pig built into the lock wall and simply floats up or down, no bow or stern lines needed.

Boats for smaller locks do need bow and stern lines.

 

[Flak]

Alright to answer some questions:

- no kids, they will be grown by then
- target to travel is probably another 5 years.
- want to buy in the next year or so, and do local runs to get familiar
- at that point I will be early 50's, both will be retired with a passive income (military x2, we will need to have the boat purchased out right by then)
- due to retirement, we will live on the boat full time and rent our land house (part of said passive income)
- I don't think speed will be /that/ important
- the purpose of the thread was to get manufacturer's & models to look at. (thanks firehoser75 & Hygge)
- the only MUST we have at this moment, based on limited experience, is a bedroom with room. She HATES the V-Berth of our sailboat.

Send your best thougths / ideas.

 

[backinblue]

It would be helpful to know approximate size and budget you have in mind before any recomendations. Also other must-haves and dont-wants besides the bed size. I agree, a gueen is so much better than a vee berth. But what about single vs. dual engines? Flybridge? Newer smaller boat vs older bigger boat for the same cost? etc. It's hard to just recommend boats w/o some more basic parameters.

 

[Hygge]

Well, if you are going to live on it. Wife hates V-berths. 200k or under.

older nordic tug 34?
Kadey Krogen 39?
Grand Banks 36? (two cabins, but I think all the GB 32's are v-berth).

We love our RT29, but not sure I'd want to live on it full time. Then again, I know a couple living on a RT25.

How handy are you? that is probably the key thing for getting something in your price range. I am a CPA but renovated two wooden boats before youtube. I just asked "old timers" how to do stuff. Nowadays there are tons of resources out there to help.

Dave
PS: Thank you for your service.

 

[Flak]

It would be helpful to know approximate size and budget you have in mind before any recomendations. Also other must-haves and dont-wants besides the bed size. I agree, a gueen is so much better than a vee berth. But what about single vs. dual engines? Flybridge? Newer smaller boat vs older bigger boat for the same cost? etc. It's hard to just recommend boats w/o some more basic parameters.

Something the two of us could handle, around 200k. I can pay cash for it, not be broke and still have an income coming in to "live" on.

Big enough for two people, small enough for one person to handle alone (for safety sake).

Anything that is not capable of making the Bahamas is automatically out of the question. Loop first (safe), then if all goes well, Bahamas.

Buying a different boat at that time is not out of the question, but obviously if I can get one that can handle both, mores-the-better.

Beyond that, I think the problem we are having now is I don't know, what I don't know.

Single vs. dual engines... eh... i see advantages and disadvantages either way.

Flybridge - I haven't the foggiest idea how I feel about that.

Pretty handy - more electronics knowledge than boat knowledge. Certainly, not afraid to ask.

Send it!

 

[proudsailor]

Howdy Flak and Wife- we're in a similar boat so to speak. I'm a long time sailor and considering the leap. Our very cursory looks have led us to Kadey Kroger's or maybe DeFevers. Our priorities as a couple w/ no kids- stabilization, 2 heads, minimally a bow thruster, fuel sipper, and some room for workout equipment.

KK42- if you find one in decent shape for under $200k expect it to be a near 40 year old boat. But, damn they look great, very seaworthy, and nicely laid out. Our complaint is the master stateroom berth is a double pullman so a bit more snug than a standard center island queen. But the layout affords 2 heads and a cozy guest cabin geared more to be a den than a guest cabin. Also, a single engine- easy to maintain and half the cost of a two engine boat. If in good shape, I'd be comfortable taking her to the Bahamas and Caribbean. And she sips fuel.

DeFever- most are two engines, nice comfortable layouts w/ large aft/trunk master state rooms. Lots of livability and room. Found for under $200K. From what I read, also a good boat for coastal cruising and potentially transit to the islands.

De Good luck finding a KK39 for under $200K. Someone suggested Ranger Tug, American Tug, Nordic Tug- again good luck finding one under $200K. Everything's a sacrifice- what are your priorities? You could get a lot of Marine Trader for $200K and have a really nice floating condo. I echo WifeyB and figure out priorities (who needs a wine fridge when you're a beer drinker and if it ain't stabilized you'll spill both), scour Yachtworld, and definitely climb aboard every boat you can.