Remove flybridge, add solar

[balder8]

Work has been busy, but that doesn't mean my imagination has not. I decided to try to illustrate the concept I have for my boat. Remove FB, add stabilizers, and have an outdoor lounge/social area, all while being able to scoot underneath the lowest bridges.

At the moment, my boat projects consist of removing and replacing windows and scraping varnish - so all this stuff is a ways out

This is what I have decided when finishing the project of our Dutch trawler: no add of a flybridge, more space for solar panels, less windage and all the systems in the pilothouse. Also, protection from sunshine, in Med, it can be very dangerous to stay too many summers outside!!!! Considering stabilizers, I decided also to go with horizontal design ( thanks to Trawlerforum and posts from Aussies who gave me this idea to avoid vertical paravanes, still uggly but more easy to handle and also less windage. One concern, I must change connections between my solar panels, because when paravanes folded on the flybridge, a small part of the panels do not receive sunshine at certain times. Another point, when you are on the flybridge, depending on design, you may not see 100% of the bow like on catamarans. Also, if limited crew, more easy to exit from pilothouse to give hands for ropes etc than from flybridge. And I do not talk about Captains shouting at the Admiral with their fat ass stucked in the flybridge chair! More seriously, I have a remote control and a small telecommand for autopilot and engine on the roof, but I do not use it.

 

[slowgoesit]

I second Steve's comment above regarding redundancy. If it were me, I'd use two MPPT controllers, each running two of the panels. Of course, I went kind of overboard on our boat with individual controllers of each of our 8, 360 watt panels. Don't forget to put CB's on each side of the controllers as well!

One additional comment, now that the horse is out of the stable, have you purchased your panels? With that lip around the edge of the PH roof, you're now kind of locked in on the max size panel you can use. Plus, down the road, if you have to replace panels, sourcing the same size panels may be problematic . . .

Overall, it looks great, and kudo's for feeling comfortable with stepping out of the box!

Do you have a picture of your solar array? That's a ton of solar. Do you also have a generator?

Pic below. Please pardon the $^&*#@! seagull deposits . . .

The shading from various components is one of the reasons I went with separate controllers. Plus, if one controller fails, I only lose 1/8 of my solar generating capacity.
Re/ generator, yes, we have a 12kw generator that runs off of hydraulic pressure provided either by the main engine while underway, or an auxiliary engine that also provides get home capability in the event of a problem with the main engine. Unfortunately the Aux engine is sized for get home capability, so is a little large to run just for generator. (1 gallon/hour burn rate under generator)

 

[CharlieO.]

Pic below. Please pardon the $^&*#@! seagull deposits . . .

The shading from various components is one of the reasons I went with separate controllers. Plus, if one controller fails, I only lose 1/8 of my solar generating capacity.
Re/ generator, yes, we have a 12kw generator that runs off of hydraulic pressure provided either by the main engine while underway, or an auxiliary engine that also provides get home capability in the event of a problem with the main engine. Unfortunately the Aux engine is sized for get home capability, so is a little large to run just for generator. (1 gallon/hour burn rate under generator)

Slow, how much loss do you see with just that much shading?

 

[slowgoesit]

Slow, how much loss do you see with just that much shading?

It's difficult to say, because I don't have any way of knowing how much we would be generating with no shading.
But just for info, on the trip to Alaska last Summer, when we just had the first 6 six (360 watt) panels, for a total full rated output of 2160 watts, we often generated in the 1400 (64%) watt range during full sun. And bear in mind, that is in more Northern latitudes than we are currently in, here in the PNW. And we're really excited to see what the output will be in the Sea of Cortez this Winter!
If I were to hazard a wild guess, I'd say we're probably losing about 10% to 15% due to shading.

 

[mcarthur]

Have a look at YT channel Motor Sailing for Old Dudes about his genoa on (essentially) a powercat. Benefits are as much about the 0.5-1kn addition when wind is in the right direction as the dampened motion of the boat when wind is quartering.

I'd second the solar bimini. We're replacing a bimini with a lightweight hardtop which will house semi-flexible panels. The flexible mean weight up high is minimised, and the "hard" means the panels should have a longer life since they are flexing as much as bimini may move.

 

[Jaggrays]

Solar panels on Dingy Davits, simple solution using existing structural component. Sailboats have been doing this for years to maximize space and protect dingy from the sun and rain.

I am planning on doing this on a Trawler sedan, extending the coach top. The Seawind I was sailing had 1500 watts of solar. The one in the photo has around 1000 watts.

I have been looking for this application on a Trawler but have not seen this idea used. No brainer in my opinion unless it adds to overall length. Either way on most boats it would only extend a foot or so past the swim platform.

 

[Dashash]

Got the panels in last week. Now on to wiring, etc. I have settled on a 48V bank.

 

[OldDan1943]

Got the panels in last week. Now on to wiring, etc. I have settled on a 48V bank.

Nice profile

 

[Xlantic]

Here's a photo from my collection of solar bimini ideas. Not sure where I stole it from, and of course my boat is a LOT smaller. Imagine this reversed and located behind the mast. Any more effort than this and it seems like you're in an area of diminishing returns. You can always pack a 2KW portable Honda generator for those rare occasions when your solar and batteries can't keep up with the demand.

Below is an updated version of my solar roof

 

[Xlantic]

Here:

 

[slowgoesit]

Here:

I really like the fact that the solar panels double as the actual structure of the "Bimini"!

 

[Xlantic]

I really like the fact that the solar panels double as the actual structure of the "Bimini"!

Well, the panels sit within a structure of welded aluminum rectangular tubes.

The panels are more like the canvas of the Bimini, but actually at a lower cost than Sunbrella!

 

[Delta Riverat]

I like that idea, brilliant!

 

[Mako]

Did you somehow waterproof the joints between the panels or does rain drip down between them?

 

[Xlantic]

Did you somehow waterproof the joints between the panels or does rain drip down between them?

I used butyl roofing tape on top of the joints and that keeps the rain out.

Two lessons learned:
- Install the tape before raising the roof in place. It is a lot easier than doing it after it is place! (ask me why I know ...)
- Use the the best quality of tape available to avoid the edges of the tape from curling.

(Another way to seal the panels that I thought of is to use angle aluminum instead of or in addition to the rectangular tube I used for the structure and nest each panel in place. I would install the panels from below the structure and use some type of window seal at the top of the panel, against the lip of the angle aluminum.)

 

[Mambo42]

Last winter I had a frame welded and attached that to the sun deck as well as the stern deck. Good part of the frame is that it adds strength to the sun deck. The overhang is not capable of handling a lot of weight, but with the frame I have some more strength in the deck.
The frame and the panels now also provided shade on the stern deck, so no need anymore for the vinyl shades anymore. Another side effect is that we can hang the dinghy on this frame as well as (when the dinghy is in the water) some hanging chairs.
I first wanted to make a frame for panels where I now have the bimini, but Defever in Taiwan warned me not to do that due to stability issues. So now the frame is lower and the dinghy is off the sun deck (or dinghy deck) which means the weight remains the same. While we are underway we had no issues with stability, but it is a good thing to check before you decide to make a heavy rigid frame with solar panels instead of a lightweight bimini.
The frame holds 4 panels of 405 Wp and they are divided into 2 groups of 2 panels, each with their own MPPT controler.
Then I have one panel that I put in the corner of the sun deck. I had so much space there that I decided I could sacrifice one corner.
The other 3 panels are divided in 2 panels hanging on the port side and 1 panel on the starboard side, all panels again 405 Wp each. In port I fold them flush to the railing, out at sea we put them horizontal. I would prefer to have some sort of shock absorber type strut, but have not been able to find that for a reasonable price, so we just lift them up and put the supports in place. Most of the time we are on anchor anyway, so no need to fold them in again.

In total I have 3.2 Kwp in Solar and quite often we have 2.5 to 2.7 Kw during day time. The way we operate them is a bit of paying attention, but once you get the hang of it there is no problem anymore.
First we let the panels charge the batteries back to 100 % during the morning hours. Normally that is finished by 10 or 10.30 AM. After that we switch on the watermaker for about 2 hours, produce about 250 ltrs of water each day. Then we can switch on other equipment such as washing machine, dishwasher etc.

With the stabilizers we will have to adjust a little bit, they will draw about 1000 - 2000 W when operating and since I still don't have the alternators installed we will have to run them off the battery and solar panels. The alternators were supposed to be installed as well in Turkey, but the guy who has to make the bracket thinks we own a superyacht, so he came up with a superyacht price and we had to say no. Now I will find some welding equipment in Greece and make one myself, will take a few more weeks.

As you can see we are on the dry again, this time in Turkey, for installation of the CMC Stab 25 stabilizers. Should be finished this week and then we can be on our way again.

 

[Mambo42]

One thing I forget to add..............if you have solar panels and you want to have the maximum output you should be able to angle them a bit into the sun. For my panels that is not possible (although I have angled one panel slightly) but I figured that the boat is rolling and pitching anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference to angle them like you would do at home.

Another important item is to keep them clean. Now I am in a yard and there is dust absolutely everywhere, so I don't clean them on a daily basis. The water of the yard contains a lot of calcium, cannot make water in the boat at this moment, so decided to leave them dusty. We are on shore power anyway.
But when we are in the water it is one of my morning 'tasks'. I clean the panels carefully and make sure there is no water droplets on the panel. First of all they will act as a lense and burn into your panel, but second is that you will lose efficiency because of it. The difference between a dirty and a clean panel is sometimes 100 W, so for 8 panels that is 800 W that does not get delivered and to me that is a lot.

 

[Dashash]

Got the boat launched. Took her to Anacapa Island yesterday. Link to photos and videos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/2TwLswkC1ZyegpUD6

Fuel tanks are filled to only 50% capacity, but overall the boat motion without the flybridge appears to be noticeably snappier, but not by much. Roll period used to be 3.5 - 4 seconds. I was trying to measure it yesterday in the swells we were in and was coming up with about a 3 second period. As I said, though, I would bet another 800 lbs in each of the saddle tanks would dampen that a bit. Overall the motion was not objectionable.

 

[Dashash]

Last winter I had a frame welded and attached that to the sun deck as well as the stern deck. Good part of the frame is that it adds strength to the sun deck. The overhang is not capable of handling a lot of weight, but with the frame I have some more strength in the deck.
The frame and the panels now also provided shade on the stern deck, so no need anymore for the vinyl shades anymore. Another side effect is that we can hang the dinghy on this frame as well as (when the dinghy is in the water) some hanging chairs.
I first wanted to make a frame for panels where I now have the bimini, but Defever in Taiwan warned me not to do that due to stability issues. So now the frame is lower and the dinghy is off the sun deck (or dinghy deck) which means the weight remains the same. While we are underway we had no issues with stability, but it is a good thing to check before you decide to make a heavy rigid frame with solar panels instead of a lightweight bimini.
The frame holds 4 panels of 405 Wp and they are divided into 2 groups of 2 panels, each with their own MPPT controler.
Then I have one panel that I put in the corner of the sun deck. I had so much space there that I decided I could sacrifice one corner.
The other 3 panels are divided in 2 panels hanging on the port side and 1 panel on the starboard side, all panels again 405 Wp each. In port I fold them flush to the railing, out at sea we put them horizontal. I would prefer to have some sort of shock absorber type strut, but have not been able to find that for a reasonable price, so we just lift them up and put the supports in place. Most of the time we are on anchor anyway, so no need to fold them in again.

In total I have 3.2 Kwp in Solar and quite often we have 2.5 to 2.7 Kw during day time. The way we operate them is a bit of paying attention, but once you get the hang of it there is no problem anymore.
First we let the panels charge the batteries back to 100 % during the morning hours. Normally that is finished by 10 or 10.30 AM. After that we switch on the watermaker for about 2 hours, produce about 250 ltrs of water each day. Then we can switch on other equipment such as washing machine, dishwasher etc.

With the stabilizers we will have to adjust a little bit, they will draw about 1000 - 2000 W when operating and since I still don't have the alternators installed we will have to run them off the battery and solar panels. The alternators were supposed to be installed as well in Turkey, but the guy who has to make the bracket thinks we own a superyacht, so he came up with a superyacht price and we had to say no. Now I will find some welding equipment in Greece and make one myself, will take a few more weeks.

As you can see we are on the dry again, this time in Turkey, for installation of the CMC Stab 25 stabilizers. Should be finished this week and then we can be on our way again.

If the stabilizers you're talking about are the Waveless ones, they should draw significantly less power than that. The manufacturer states that the STAB25 draws, on average, 200W while underway (500W at anchor). You'll have to keep us up to speed with the installation!