Rough Water Seamanship

[ksanders]

When we first started ocean boating I realized that there would be a day when we would be caught in conditions that were far less than plesant. If I didn't develop the skills to safely handle my boat in very bad conditions my family and I would be put at risk.

Like most I started out by reading. The links below are to some of the very best articles on Rough Water Seamanship I've been able to find.

Rough Water Seamanship Part I: Boat Handling

Rough Water Seamanship Part II: Boat Handling

Getting Caught in Thunder Storms - Rough Water Seamanship Part III :Boat Handling

I don't know how the rest of the world builds skills but my method was practice.

I started out in a little rough conditions. With time as I learned, I started going out in Small Craft Advisories (when I had a small craft).

Doing this built skills, plain and simple. Learn by doing. I learned how boats handle, I learned about confused seas, and about beam seas, and about how to make the best out of a bad situation.

Eventually I learned enough that I ventured out in Gale Warnings. By this time I had moved to a 34' twin engine Bayliner, and I wanted to have the skills to survive. Learning those skills was not easy, but it can be done.

Now, years later when we get caught in unplesant conditions I know what to do. I know how to handle a boat in rough seas to make it back to calm waters safely and as comfortable as possible.

Rough Water seamanship is a learned skill. We are not born with it. I would suggest that anybody that takes boats out in the ocean take the time to learn those skills, so that you will have them when you need them the most.

 

[Moonstruck]

When we first started ocean boating I realized that there would be a day when we would be caught in conditions that were far less than plesant. If I didn't develop the skills to safely handle my boat in very bad conditions my family and I would be put at risk.

Like most I started out by reading. The links below are to some of the very best articles on Rough Water Seamanship I've been able to find.

Rough Water Seamanship Part I: Boat Handling

Rough Water Seamanship Part II: Boat Handling

Getting Caught in Thunder Storms - Rough Water Seamanship Part III :Boat Handling

I don't know how the rest of the world builds skills but my method was practice.

I started out in a little rough conditions. With time as I learned, I started going out in Small Craft Advisories (when I had a small craft).

Doing this built skills, plain and simple. Learn by doing. I learned how boats handle, I learned about confused seas, and about beam seas, and about how to make the best out of a bad situation.

Eventually I learned enough that I ventured out in Gale Warnings. By this time I had moved to a 34' twin engine Bayliner, and I wanted to have the skills to survive. Learning those skills was not easy, but it can be done.

Now, years later when we get caught in unplesant conditions I know what to do. I know how to handle a boat in rough seas to make it back to calm waters safely and as comfortable as possible.

Rough Water seamanship is a learned skill. We are not born with it. I would suggest that anybody that takes boats out in the ocean take the time to learn those skills, so that you will have them when you need them the most.

A very good way to learn the skills. Books are necessary to give knowledge, but they don't build skill levels. That is done by practice. Anyone that boats in areas with inlets to the ocean had better have the skills. Inlet running can be one of the most dangerous things most boaters encounter. You can come home riding on large, nicely comfortable ocean swells. When those swells oppose an ebb tide at the inlet, things change for the worse immediately. Having the knowledge and skill to handle these situations can save the day as well as lives. The beauty of our surroundings sometimes mask the dangers ahead.

 

[bobofthenorth]

This is a very timely thread because I'm recuperating after getting the sh*t beat out of me yesterday crossing Georgia Strait. Once again AGENDA + BOAT = TROUBLE. I've got some friends coming into Vancouver early next week and a buddy who is going to scrape his bottom up at McNabb Creek on a low tide Saturday. We've got a great moorage at Cowichan Bay - well sheltered, hardly ever get a rough night at the dock, etc, etc. But whenever we want to go anywhere we have to get through a tidal rapid somewhere unless we're going across into the San Juans.

Cow Bay is about a 4 hour run from the nearest exit into the Strait of Georgia (Porlier Pass) and a little longer if I go up to Galiano Pass. So the timing of slack water on the pass is a big factor whenever we plan a trip to the mainland. For this trip I stayed at a little marine park close to Porlier - won't do that again because the water was a lot skinnier than the guides made it sound. When I got up yesterday it was bumpier than I wanted for the Georgia Strait crossing but the forecast was for dying winds in the afternoon so I went anyway. And as a result I got the crap beat out of me. I had short little square sided waves all the wave across and mostly right on the nose which is the absolute worst conditions for us. I didn't even bother turning the Naiads on until I was most of the way across because they don't do anything for pitching.

My point isn't to feel sorry for Bob but rather that we have done this enough times now that it feels OK, albeit more than a little uncomfortable in the moment. There was a time out in the middle of the Strait where it occurred to me that if I got seasick I didn't have a backup captain. In reality though nothing would have changed if SWMBO had been onboard. She would have been incapacitated & I would have been on my own anyway. Autopilot, radar and dry crackers - that's the ticket.

 

[Moonfish]

We've been caught a few times by "weather". Most of those times in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. A couple of small craft advisories on our sailboat, and a couple now on our trawler. Having done it, learned and fared fine, it's not something we try to do anymore. However, those damn schedules do pop up...

A few weeks ago we had a haulout scheduled at the Port of Port Townsend. Small craft advisory. At least it was 25-35 on the rear, so I was pushed all the way up. However, ALMOST got pushed sideways in the turning basin in front of the lift notch. All the times I've been out in bad conditions, it was the only moment where I said "Sh*t!" thinking I was completely screwed. Tried one last desperate maneuver and it worked, landed without a scratch (even impressed the travelift guy, who canceled the lift until the following day).

Afterwards, I got chided by a Vessel Assist Capt/Salvor friend who said "don't push your luck!" No worries, Lisa and I had already promised we would never again leave port if the winds were going to be 15-20.

So... three and a half weeks later we relaunch. Winds are again 20-25, with gusts to 35 in Port Ludlow. So we hold true to our promise and wait until the following morning, when the winds were forecast to be 10-15. We leave Port Townsend with ZERO wind. An hour into the two hour run, the winds pick up on the nose to 40. No prob. But the sea state was 6-8 foot steep chop just seconds apart. Got the living snot kicked out of us. By the time we were a mile away from the marina, we were getting sustained 50 knots, with gusts to 55. Docked with wind 20-25 in the marina without a problem.

Not more than 15 minutes after tying up, my friend who was on the trip back points up at the anemometer and says "Look at that!" It was absolutely motionless...

So, yeah, the moral of the story is Ksanders is right. Read about it as much as you can. talk about it with htose who have done it. And then try and get some sea time in, well, not TOO bad of conditions until you learn what the boat is capable of. And that's what is most important. Because you can leave the dock with no wind and a forecast of 10-15 and end up less than two hours later in 55 mph winds!

 

[caltexflanc]

I didn't even bother turning the Naiads on until I was most of the way across because they don't do anything for pitching.

Quick FYI: you should always have them on underway even if it is flat calm. Just flopping around is bad for them and better On than Centered. Two different very well respected Naiad techs scolded me on this, and those guys are both usually mellow, and not scolds normally. One gave me the detailed technical explanation, but I'd have to call him to get it again, it was awhile ago.

 

[bobofthenorth]

Quick FYI: you should always have them on underway even if it is flat calm. Just flopping around is bad for them and better On than Centered. Two different very well respected Naiad techs scolded me on this, and those guys are both usually mellow, and not scolds normally. One gave me the detailed technical explanation, but I'd have to call him to get it again, it was awhile ago.

That's worth knowing. The farmer in me thought I was saving them by not using them.

 

[caltexflanc]

That's worth knowing. The farmer in me thought I was saving them by not using them.

Usually not a good maxim on a boat. Took me awhile to get that too. "Use it or lose it" is pretty much the rule for most boat systems.

 

[FF]

"Use it or lose it" is pretty much the rule for most boat systems.


Including the engine !

 

[rwidman]

........ Books are necessary to give knowledge, but they don't build skill levels. That is done by practice. .............

We don't always have a chance to practice so what I do is go over situations in my mind over and over again, imagining what the sea is doing, what the boat is doing, and what I should be doing. When I do find myself in any sort of "situation", I add the results of that experience to my thinking. What went well, what didn't, and what I might have done differently.

This is, of course, after studying the books.

 

[Moonstruck]

We don't always have a chance to practice so what I do is go over situations in my mind over and over again, imagining what the sea is doing, what the boat is doing, and what I should be doing. When I do find myself in any sort of "situation", I add the results of that experience to my thinking. What went well, what didn't, and what I might have done differently.

This is, of course, after studying the books.

Ron, imaging is certainly a valid method of learning what to do with knowledge. Practice includes experience. Getting the feel of rough water and running inlets in moderate conditions can give you a good idea of how the boat will behave in worse conditions. However until you can actually feel a large overtaking wave sliding under your boat or the sleigh ride and shearing going off the front of one, it is just hard to imagine that. Quick reaction is the key to the minute corrections in steering and throttle necessary to maintain control. It's best to have experienced gradually increasing rough conditions, but sometimes impractical. I have never forgotten the first time that happened to me.

 

[ksanders]

Ron, imaging is certainly a valid method of learning what to do with knowledge. Practice includes experience. Getting the feel of rough water and running inlets in moderate conditions can give you a good idea of how the boat will behave in worse conditions. However until you can actually feel a large overtaking wave sliding under your boat or the sleigh ride and shearing going off the front of one, it is just hard to imagine that. Quick reaction is the key to the minute corrections in steering and throttle necessary to maintain control. It's best to have experienced gradually increasing rough conditions, but sometimes impractical. I have never forgotten the first time that happened to me.

Good post...

To further that thought, gaining experience means actually seeking out rough water opportunities. I know that sounds counter intuitive to many but thats how skills are built.

I envy folks that can cruise the ICW in relative calm. That is not our world in the Gulf of Alaska. It is not uncommon to go out and experience SCA level swells or much larger for a couple hours just to get to a calm water bay, or to cruise over to the protected waters of Prince William Sound.

 

[rwidman]

Well, I'm sorry you folks don't think going over possible situations in your mind before they happen is a good idea, but from my perspective, if you've never thought about it before, you will be lost and confused when you find yourself in such a situation. The results could be devastating.

 

[Dougcole]

One thing I learned in my 15 years as a fishing guide was rough water boat handling. It was really expanded in that situation by the fact that I was responsible for the people who were paying me to be on my boat. Though that was mainly in an 18' skiff, I learned a lot that I still use today.

It was the forced everyday experience that was really the ticket for me.

Sudden thunderstorms were the worst. In the summer here it can go from flat calm to 40 knots, driving rain and zero visibility in a matter of minutes. They don't usually last long, but then it doesn't take too long to get into trouble either. Especially in an 18' open boat. with two other pretty much clueless passengers on board that can do nothing to help.

 

[ksanders]

Well, I'm sorry you folks don't think going over possible situations in your mind before they happen is a good idea, but from my perspective, if you've never thought about it before, you will be lost and confused when you find yourself in such a situation. The results could be devastating.

Ron, going over situations in your mind is extremely valuable and important.

That said, actual sea states cannot be simulated in your mind. You will have to learn by doing, because you cannot imagine what you do not know.

Little things like your thousand dollar pair of binoculars being launched off of the counter, or the way your boat wants to swap ends when a wave overtakes you and the bow is burind under the water.

You also do not know how you will react to extreme circumstances. Your calm confidence as a captain will project it self to your passangers and make them much more comfortable.

Here's an example...

Last May as we were on the last day of our journey to Alaska we suddenly experienced unforcasted fierce winds. We were in (and not overestimating as many do with waves) an approx 5' long swell from the stern with 8' close wind blown waves to the beam.

These were waves with no back side, almost "square" waves.

What did I do??? I was 54 miles offshore and a hundred and twenty miles from my destination.

Its simple, I stayed calm, turned my bow into the waves and watched the bow of my 47' boat go completely underwater, time and time again. Actual waves washing up to my windshield wipers.

My son was on board and was clearly shaken. I was calm, because I'd been out in really bad weather before. Not quite this bad, but really bad all the same.

He said, dad, its over 50 miles to shore, what are you going to do? I calmly told him that we were heading for the shore because thats where the wind was coming from, and that as we got closer, the waves would die out.

He said but 50 miles??? Clearly concerned. I replied yes son, its going to be a long morning but we'll be fine, I've done this before.

You cant simulate that. You can and should pre-plan, but you need to actually experience it to gain the confidence, and the competence to get through safely when life gets really bad on the ocean.

BTW three hours later the sea was back to its friendly state, and we finished up our journey in peace and comfort.

 

[Moonfish]

Great reply to your son's concern, Kevin!

My friend Capt. John Aydelotte (owner of Vessel Assist NW and Marine Services) has been rescuing/helping people in bad conditions for 30 years. He says he'll arrive on the scene where a family is completely out of their abilities, they looked scared to death, and he'll pull up alongside and say:

"Did someone order a pizza?!"

Immediately puts people a little more at ease as he not only laughs, but shows the same calm competence that you showed your son. Works every time.

 

[Moonstruck]

Ron, imaging is certainly a valid method of learning what to do with knowledge.

Ron, you must have missed the first part of my post. Imaging and roll playing are certainly valid ways of preparing as much as possible for a situation. They, however, are no substitute for experience.

 

[caltexflanc]

I'll add my opinion that there is no substitute for on-the-water learning. I just don't think self-teaching is wise to start. Go out with captains that know what they are doing in bad conditions, who can articulate what is going on, how it affects the boat, and what to do.

Inlet running is an art and science, and each one has it's unique characteristics and many can be dangerous in perfectly beautiful weather. There are many more to learn on the eastern seaboard than the western. As someone else noted the ICW involves many open sounds with shifting currents and sudden weather. I am fortunate to have boated almost the entire continental US salt water coast and adjacent waters from BC to Maine, as well as the entire northern California waterway system, the Hudson River, and some of the Great Lakes. Bad water seamanship ability applies to all of those places, none of them can take "our water is worse than your water" bragging rights.

 

[Phil Fill]

Thanks. I printed off the 3 parts for future reference.

I agree experience is important, but for many of us because of out area, and boating we normal do not experience those conditions. I have always said, “The less experience, knowledgeable the person the bigger and more capable the boat should be, and a person should know the capability of their boat.”

One reference that might be helpful is the national buoy date site. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/ , the national weather site, http://www.weather.gov/ and the national tides http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/index.shtml Using the different sites you should be able to know and predict the conditions.


One of the must have feaures on the Nobeltec chart software is the animation/prodiction of the tides/currents. With a 6 ft draft, 8 knt boat, I like to pre plan a rout and doulbe check the tides, currents and weather, before we leave the dock, so surprises are kept to a minimum.

 

[rwidman]

It's a shame we don't have boat simulators similar to aircraft simulators where you can get actual experience without risking your life.

As far as I know, we don't so you do the best you can. For me, that means book study followed by going through the situation in my mind so my actions are automatic.

 

[psneeld]

For those interested...there are different approaches and avenues...

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/media/pages_... Safety through cost effective simulation.pdf

not many places just let recs in...but try enough places and you may get a seat if you are convincing (or you checkbook is) enough.

Lot's of "training captains" will take you out on your boat and increase your rough water skills to a point....beyond that you have to do it alone (every boat is a little different anyhow so you and your own boat are the perfect match)...but like reascue agencies that have a training cutoff limit...there "better" crews are ones that have exceeded those limits on certain occasions whether training or actual rescues. The gradual worse and worse conditions survived are the only real teacher.

I have read many books/articles where one captain swore by one approach that was almost fatal for another.

Only you and your boat with enough experience will survive "the big one"...unless you get lucky or just wind up in a liferaft sooner or later.

 

[sunchaser]

The best rough water read I have seen is Dashew's "Surviving the Storm." It is not for the faint of heart going beyond 1000 pages.

A trip or two in an offshore sailing race is a real eye opener, especially with all too many amateur sailors going forth in conditions they are totally unprepared for, to whit the two recent tragedies off the CA coast with 6 or so perishing.

Last year while in NZ we saw that ending leg of the Volvo Ocean Racing series and met many crew and shore staff. Speaking of big water stories, WHEW! What they encountered after leavihng Auckland and going into the Southern Ocean is a really good read - and gives one pause to think those kinds of conditions are what Radiant Star did routinely for work and pleasure.

 

[LaBomba]

It's a shame we don't have boat simulators similar to aircraft simulators where you can get actual experience without risking your life.

As far as I know, we don't so you do the best you can. For me, that means book study followed by going through the situation in my mind so my actions are automatic.

Georgian College in Owen Sound Ontario built a 7.8Million dollar boat simulator and offer a small commercial or pleasure craft course. It is a fantastic simulator, sound, vibration the whole works.

Small Commercial Boating (MED A1,2,3, SVOP) | Marine Training Certification

 

[psneeld]

Georgian College in Owen Sound Ontario built a 7.8Million dollar boat simulator and offer a small commercial or pleasure craft course. It is a fantastic simulator, sound, vibration the whole works.

Small Commercial Boating (MED A1,2,3, SVOP) | Marine Training Certification

I know there's more out there...have tripped over the ads in periodicals for years...just hard to find when you go looking for them...even on the internet.

I wonder if the simulator is programmed to simulate a variety of vessels...or just one type and you live with that even if it's unlike the vessel you own????

 

[ksanders]

Geez guys...

Instead of simulated rough water how about waiting for a slightly nasty day, go out in your boat and experience some real waves.

Do that a few times and then go out in a little rougher weather.

Then a little rougher.

You get the idea.

Don't do anything really dangerous, just push your personal envelope a little.

I cannot believe that we here on TF would even consider a simulator when we have actual boats, perfectly good boats to learn in.

What happened to our spirit of adventure???

I couldn't face myself in the mirror after going on a wave simulator.

 

[AusCan]

Geez guys...
Instead of simulated rough water how about waiting for a slightly nasty day, go out in your boat and experience some real waves.
.

+1
I have always pushed the envelope with any boat I've had. Never to a level which is stupidly dangerous, but often I am going out when almost everyone else is coming in.

 

[BruceK]

Geez guys...

Instead of simulated rough water how about waiting for a slightly nasty day, go out in your boat and experience some real waves....
Don't do anything really dangerous..

A simulator could allow you to try several ways, in quick succession, of dealing with a given situation, without risk of real danger, to find which worked safely and best. A negative is are not in your boat, with its own characteristics.
ksanders is right in many ways, but issues could be not knowing what might turn out to be "really dangerous", and the conditions worsening . Another solution for gaining experience in less than ideal conditions is bringing someone more experienced onboard to oversee the learning process and pass on the benefit of experience in a practical setting.

 

[psneeld]

Both schools of though have valid points...

Having been a USCG helo pilot, I lived a professsion that trained to a safety/risk management point, but often went beyond when duty called..

The trouble with either method is..ya just never know when the unthinkable may happen and there's NO recovery (for people trained in either or even both camps)

That's why extensive training in risk management, weather, maintenance, basic oceanography, emergency repairs, emergency navigation and survival all combined into a way of thinking will give you a shot at surviving the unexpected. All are required past just rough water handling....

But I speak to the extreme there...for what Kevin is suggesting..

...yes...Incremental experience on your own boat is really the only way practical for many and is necessary for safe, successful voyaging sometimes.

I have been involved with too many "rescues" that weren't rescues at all...just early terminations of voyages where the boat outlasted the skipper/crew...and that's a pity.

 

[rwidman]

Geez guys...

Instead of simulated rough water how about waiting for a slightly nasty day, go out in your boat and experience some real waves.

Do that a few times and then go out in a little rougher weather.

Then a little rougher.

You get the idea.

Don't do anything really dangerous, just push your personal envelope a little.

I cannot believe that we here on TF would even consider a simulator when we have actual boats, perfectly good boats to learn in.

What happened to our spirit of adventure???

I couldn't face myself in the mirror after going on a wave simulator.

The airlines and the military seem to find simulators a cost effective and safe way to train pilots. I remember a TV show where they had a simulator training sea captains in the operation of large ships. Simulators used to be used in driver training schools.

Why not for recreational boats? Why would you be ashamed to use a simulator?

 

[mahal]

The airlines and the military seem to find simulators a cost effective and safe way to train pilots. I remember a TV show where they had a simulator training sea captains in the operation of large ships. Simulators used to be used in driver training schools.

Why not for recreational boats? Why would you be ashamed to use a simulator?

The airlines and the military probably save money by using simulators as it is very expensive to take large ships and aircraft out for training. My boat is cheap to operate and there are many days that there is a small craft advisory in the forecast like today. I would not recommend a novice go out on his own. Instead bring a captain or someone you know that is experienced for at least the first time out in rough seas. If there was a simulator available for free or cheap, it would be a good supplement but not a replacement of the real thing.

 

[ksanders]

The airlines and the military seem to find simulators a cost effective and safe way to train pilots. I remember a TV show where they had a simulator training sea captains in the operation of large ships. Simulators used to be used in driver training schools.

Why not for recreational boats? Why would you be ashamed to use a simulator?

Just a FYI, I understand simulators so its not an anti technology thing. I am a Land and seaplane rated pilot with close to a thousand hours on floats. As my first job out of college I worked as part of the technical team that built the very first F-16 flight trainer, and the AV8B Weapons and Tactical Trainer for Evens and Sutherland.

The issue here is risk, and the quality of the simulation. Beginning drivers can train in simulators to avoid the risk of the road. Aircraft pilots can train in a simulator to avoid the risk of aircraft flight.

In the case of the aircraft trainer, it is specifically designed to react exactly like the aircraft its used to simulate. Exactly the same.

Rough water on pleasure boats on the other hand involve someone that shuld already be competent to pilot the boat. All I'm calling for is to extend the comfort level, not put yourself in a life and death situation like in an aircraft. The risk is much much less, incrementially training in your own boat.

Then we get into the reality of the simulator. For someone like you for example with your Camano at 31' you would not be well served to train on a commercial simulator set up for say a cargo ship. Its no stretch here to say that you could actually learn the wrong reactions to situations. Wrong reactions that could actually put yourself at risk in really rough weather. Your boat does not handle like a cargo ship in the same sea states.

Theoretically I will concede that simulator training could have great benefit if it were designed for your boat, and replicating the interior of your vessel.

Anything other than that and its just a video game.

Oh, and for ther ashamed thing, Its just the old fashioned male in me coming out. I like to think that I'm brave enough to take my own boat out for a ride. I like to think that I can learn my boats systems like our forefathers did, through experience. I work in technology. On my boat I like to think that I'm getting back to basics.