Safe Harbor...what's the deal.

[MYTraveler]

or challenge. While some people will love Safe Harbor, others will resent them. It's great pushing your brand but what about the customer who didn't like Safe Harbor in Massachusetts. Is he going to hold that against all Safe Harbor? Some will.

That is the inherent value of branding -- it tells the customer, in advance, what to expect. Think of McDonalds. Not the best burger in the world, but not bad, either. If you are on the road, looking for a decent quick lunch, knowing what you get at McDonalds is very valuable to the consumer. If each store were operated independently and under its own name, it would be a crap shoot for the consumer. The key is to have positive brand value.

 

[OldDan1943]

I'm watching their actions to take over St. Petersburg Municipal Marina. It looks like that will go through. I have been on a waiting list for two years for a slip. When I spoke to the dockmaster last week, he told me they were throwing out the list because they expect alot of the old boats to move out, once Safe Harbor begins raising rates. He said that as improvements begin, boats on the newer docks will see 10% price increases each year, for five years. Here is the latest article....
https://www.tampabay.com/news/st-pe...wntown-marina-now-closer-to-major-renovation/

Safe Harbor will lease the marina not buy it.
There is a big difference when it comes to capital investment, depending upon the length of the lease.

 

[backinblue]

That is the inherent value of branding -- it tells the customer, in advance, what to expect. Think of McDonalds. Not the best burger in the world, but not bad, either. If you are on the road, looking for a decent quick lunch, knowing what you get at McDonalds is very valuable to the consumer. If each store were operated independently and under its own name, it would be a crap shoot for the consumer. The key is to have positive brand value.

Whether we like it or not, we the consumers have made it this way. We have chosen Home Depot over the local h/w store by doing most of our shopping there. The market is just responding to what we wnat so we shouldn't complain when it does. True that you get what you expect at McDonalds, but you may also miss out on some locally famous food experience. It's all what you want.

 

[Hippocampus]

Unfortunately it isn’t B.
If enough people do the chain there isn’t enough customers left to support the independents. That’s what happened to hardware. I supported independents but not enough others did so there’s only one independent left in my town. Even now if there isn’t a huge price difference I buy there. It’s a true value which is a chain but at least a owner operated franchise. The true independents are all gone.

 

[backinblue]

Unfortunately it isn’t B.
If enough people do the chain there isn’t enough customers left to support the independents. That’s what happened to hardware. I supported independents but not enough others did so there’s only one independent left in my town. Even now if there isn’t a huge price difference I buy there. It’s a true value which is a chain but at least a owner operated franchise. The true independents are all gone.

When I said that we all got what we wanted with Home Depot, I meant the collective majority. I also miss to 100 year old local h/w store, but if most shoppers would rather go to home depot, then they win and that's what we are left with whether we all want it that way or not, it's market driven.

 

[BandB]

Unfortunately it isn’t B.
If enough people do the chain there isn’t enough customers left to support the independents. That’s what happened to hardware. I supported independents but not enough others did so there’s only one independent left in my town. Even now if there isn’t a huge price difference I buy there. It’s a true value which is a chain but at least a owner operated franchise. The true independents are all gone.

As a hardware store owner, I disagree with the true independents being gone. You have over 15,000 independent hardware stores who are members of groups like Ace, True Value, and Do It Best. These are not franchises. They share some branding but that has allowed them to compete and to remain because they share buying power. There are still incredible small town, local hardware stores. You do not get the same feel in every store of either of the three brands even though many of the same products, but only so many brands of chain saw or paint. The few non branded independents are also largely buying through buying groups now as well. Let's not overlook Tractor Supply, Northern Tools or Harbor Freight either.

Here is where marinas differ. There aren't as many as there are hardware stores. Also, you're not seeing buying groups or anything like that but you're seeing ownership. It's more like Sears years ago and Walmart more recently eliminating a lot of small businesses that can't compete. I do believe you'll see large groups like Safe Harbor continue. This is somewhat like what happened decades ago to the independent gas station. Now, some of the independent marinas can survive as owner operated businesses. The problem is when they're ready to sell. There was a lousy market for marinas and still is if you're looking to sell to other individuals. Just not many looking to buy and no one looking to finance a purchase. So one by one they'll sell to large marina groups.

The fact is that selling small businesses is extremely difficult. We've bought many that the owner simply wanted to retire and couldn't find a buyer until us. Marina owners face that. Their kids often don't want to work 16 hour days seven days a week during season. The marina paid for college for the two kids and now one is a lawyer and one a teacher and one still lives in the area and one far away.

Groups like Safe Harbor are the best and worst that can happen. The small independent operator number will go down. However, quality marinas will be salvaged. That does mean ultimately higher rates though.

 

[Lollygag1]

Pirates Cove was a dump glad to see someone made an investment to improve it.

 

[OldDan1943]

And then, we have Active Captain that lists existing large and small independent marinas.

 

[Lollygag1]

Love my Ace Hardware, the one near the marina has a well stocked marine section. It is not uncommon for someone on the dock to make a run with a list from other boaters for that one little item they need. Also the people working there actually know something and are a huge help.

 

[OldDan1943]

Pirates Cove was a dump glad to see someone made an investment to improve it.

There are 3 Pirate Cove in FL, all 5 star.
First glance, they appear to be resorts with dockage.

 

[Lollygag1]

I was referring to the RI one. It is in a great location so I a glad to see it getting improved.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yup, we have 2 Home Depot near this marina (within 10 miles) but, I find it more pleasurable to first start with the local ACE hardware and also the local West Marine.
We used to have a huge locally own hardware store. In its day, it was no doubt 'the' place to shop. They used to carry everything but, about 5 years ago they started 'selling down.' Plus, I guess they did not pay well, I think, towards the end, they had one or 2 floor person and one cashier.

What I dont like about HD is it's a long walk from a parking place to the store. They used to have lots of knowledgable people on the floor but, not anymore.

 

[OldDan1943]

Pirates Cove was a dump glad to see someone made an investment to improve it.

Apparently so. It now has 4.6 out of 5 stars and people asking if they slips to rent.

 

[Lollygag1]

They did not have too many slips when I was there but lots of moorings.

 

[ronobrien]

I can understand that they (Safe Harbor & the like) need to support a business model. I don't have a problem with that. My issue is a personal one. I was told that my boat being of a certain age (1973) was too old for them to have in their facility. I can even understand that their insurance pricing dictates this policy. My issue is if they buy up all the sites around, where do I keep my boat. (A rather nice GB36, fully surveyed by the way). Do I have to sell my boat and buy newer? Who, then do I sell it to? Do I take my loss and scrap it? Is there such as a thing as age discrimination for boats? I think I will write my Congressman (excuse me, Congressperson) and see what my rights are as a victim of marina discrimination!!! (Laughing now)

 

[backinblue]

Funny, but some very valid points!

 

[BandB]

I can understand that they (Safe Harbor & the like) need to support a business model. I don't have a problem with that. My issue is a personal one. I was told that my boat being of a certain age (1973) was too old for them to have in their facility. I can even understand that their insurance pricing dictates this policy. My issue is if they buy up all the sites around, where do I keep my boat. (A rather nice GB36, fully surveyed by the way). Do I have to sell my boat and buy newer? Who, then do I sell it to? Do I take my loss and scrap it? Is there such as a thing as age discrimination for boats? I think I will write my Congressman (excuse me, Congressperson) and see what my rights are as a victim of marina discrimination!!! (Laughing now)

I suggest for answers to some of your questions, you contact Safe Harbor's corporate office and ask. I'd love to hear the answers. Find out if it's across the company of just the individual marina and why. Get to a real decision maker if at all possible. It might be you learn something and can share with us, but they might learn something from you as well.

 

[OldDan1943]

I guess Columbus will have to find a different marina

 

[ronobrien]

That is a good idea. I will see if I can get anyone's attention, and I will advise the forum if I hear.

 

[ronobrien]

I just went to the Safe Harbor web site. There is no function to contact them. You may become a member, but I don't know that would offer any ability to correspond, or just give more search privileges. From my perspective, they seem rather insular of the corporation. I would like to try any ideas anyone may have.

 

[backinblue]

Why not escalate it through the marina that told you that your boat was too old? They should be able to put you in touch with someone in corporate or produce a documented policy.

Or try this phone number. Maybe they can point you in the right direction:

General Counsel, Designated Agent
Safe Harbor Marinas
14785 Preston Road, Suite 975
Dallas, TX 75254
Telephone: (972) 488-1314
Fax: (972) 406-5221
Email: copyrightnotices@shmarinas.com

 

[Lollygag1]

All large corporations have a media relations department. I pulled this off of the Safe Harbor press release. You may want to reach out to them as they will likely be able to get you pointed to the right people.

media@shmarinas.com

 

[BandB]

Address: 14785 Preston Rd #975, Dallas, TX 75254
Hours:
Open ⋅ Closes 5PM
Phone: (972) 488-1314

That is their corporate office.

 

[OldDan1943]

I guess they think a boat that old is poorly maintained bordering on a 'piece of junk' searching for a place to be abandoned.

 

[ronobrien]

Actually, I think it might be part of their "branding", that only the latest models come to their marina's. That is if in fact it truly is their policy. It wouldn't be the first time a little snobbery has occurred in the boating world.

 

[BandB]

Actually, I think it might be part of their "branding", that only the latest models come to their marina's. That is if in fact it truly is their policy. It wouldn't be the first time a little snobbery has occurred in the boating world.

Well, I also know that they've had several older boats to sink while in their slips and in at least one case they were sued by the boat owner and blamed for not preventing it. That's why I'd be very interested in hearing their reasons directly from their corporate office. I'd also like to know if there are any circumstances under which they would make exceptions if they really have an age policy.

 

[Osprey69]

As speculated, I think it is less of wanting the newer flashier boats but avoiding clunkers, both visually and literally. RV parks often have a 10 year rule to avoid problems (converted school buses etc) and will make exceptions based on pics.

 

[BandB]

Ok, some clarification.

This information comes directly from the regional manager who is over the marinas in the area discussed and aware fully of all corporate policies.

Fact: Safe Harbor has no rule prohibiting boats beyond any age. In fact, just look at Newport Shipyard which has many classic boats from the 20's and 30's. Safe Harbor does require insurance and does require themselves being named as additional covered.

Also, there was a statement earlier that some marina would raise rates 10% a year on the new slips for the next five years. BS on this too. No marina manager knows what they'd do next year or any year after.

Now, be careful about what employees say as you will find after any acquisition some of the old timers don't fully buy in and support the new owner and it takes time for that to be resolved. So, easy to say "it's Safe Harbor." I'm sure they are enforcing rules such as insurance that some previous owners were careless about.

If you have an issue with a Safe Harbor marina that the manager can't resolve or you don't trust their answer, call the Dallas number given above and ask how to reach the regional manager. They will give you both the email address and the cell phone number. I found this to be most impressive and I had an email response in 56 minutes and spoke to the regional two minutes later. Great response. Everyone cooperative and open. I was impressed and I'm not easily impressed.

So, go back to legitimate concerns. How will things change? Will prices go up? Will the marinas improve or will the level of service decline? All these things with TBD as the answer.

 

[ronobrien]

That may be why. I really don't know at this point. I did tell them that the boat (Grand Banks 36) had a survey completed less than 6 months before that time, but it didn't matter. I was told it is the hard fast rule.

 

[BandB]

That may be why. I really don't know at this point. I did tell them that the boat (Grand Banks 36) had a survey completed less than 6 months before that time, but it didn't matter. I was told it is the hard fast rule.

It is not a safe harbor rule. Insurance is. No rule on age. Fact. If you still have any question call their office as I suggested earlier.