Salt water in fwd bilge

[kernr]

Hi all -
Today was anchor locker day. Moved boat up in slip and placed anchor and all of the chain on the dock. Took all of the access hatches off the topside and inside boat to the anchor locker. Cleaned out debris/ dirt/ mud out of locker and examined base and sides of locker - no cracks or holes observed and two holes in bottom drain overboard. Forward bilge still dry after one week dockside. Then I took hose and gave a good wash out of locker. Guess what - water, a trickle as seen in photo, started into forward bilge. So that is definitely one source of sw when underway. Either there is a hairline crack in locker bottom or the port/stbd drain hose to overboard is cracked or not attached to opening at top of hose (which is right where it exits bottom of locker). It could be either hose actually - can’t tell - no access to that area.

I may try to plug the port side and/or stbd side to see if leak persists. If it’s just the bottom of locker then epoxy should solve that problem. If exit hose from locker not sure of a good fix - possibly a smaller hose inside existing hose with epoxied flange to bottom of locker. Ideas?
Bob
PS - At least I have located one sw source - possibly only one

 

[O C Diver]

Hi all -
Today was anchor locker day. Moved boat up in slip and placed anchor and all of the chain on the dock. Took all of the access hatches off the topside and inside boat to the anchor locker. Cleaned out debris/ dirt/ mud out of locker and examined base and sides of locker - no cracks or holes observed and two holes in bottom drain overboard. Forward bilge still dry after one week dockside. Then I took hose and gave a good wash out of locker. Guess what - water, a trickle as seen in photo, started into forward bilge. So that is definitely one source of sw when underway. Either there is a hairline crack in locker bottom or the port/stbd drain hose to overboard is cracked or not attached to opening at top of hose (which is right where it exits bottom of locker). It could be either hose actually - can’t tell - no access to that area.

I may try to plug the port side and/or stbd side to see if leak persists. If it’s just the bottom of locker then epoxy should solve that problem. If exit hose from locker not sure of a good fix - possibly a smaller hose inside existing hose with epoxied flange to bottom of locker. Ideas?
Bob
PS - At least I have located one sw source - possibly only one

Imo, the leak isn't coming from the chain locker. This is based on it being muddy and the water in your bilge being clean. Also, in an earlier post, you traveled on a calm day where no water would have gone in the chain locker, but was in the bilge.

Imo, the water is coming in the anchor locker through hull drains and ending up in the bilge. To prove this theory, plug the drain from the anchor locker and try to force water with a dock hose into the through hulls for the anchor locker drain.

Ted

 

[kernr]

Ted -
So, you are most likely close to the answer. As you can see by attached photos the exit for anchor locker hoses is fairly high above WL and covered. What I did do was plug the port locker hole with a DC plug and thin piece of rubber and squirted water into locker for about a minute. No water came in bilge fwd. it appears leak is somewhere between hole in locker and exit thru hull. This area is totally unaccessible. Not sure best course of action from here.
Bob

 

[kernr]

All -
Here are some options that I have been mulling around. Remove outboard cover on Port side and block hole. Then do the same to port hole on inside of locker. Or - find the exact location water is entering people tank - sand off paint and cover with epoxy. Or - if I could figure a way to seal a flange on each end of a hose that fits inside of existing hose then epoxy each flange to boat on both ends. Or - do nothing and tolerate 2 gallons of water in bilge almost every time we go out. Thoughts?

 

[O C Diver]

Before reaching a false conclusion, I would pack both through hulls from the outside with plastic trash bag and then towel type material. Then cruise to see if that's the problem.

While cruising, I would want to lean over the bow (or use a Gopro type camera) to see if water is reaching the cowlings. Then see if water is entering or not. You need to confirm the problem before determining the solution.

Ted

 

[BruceK]

Is there a drain for the anchor locker. Possible leak in drain pipe to outside hull, or leak from drain shell cover outside hull?

 

[Comodave]

You can paper the areas with paper towels and see if they get wet or have dried up watermarks from leaks. The paper towels when they get wer and dry up you can usually tell that they have been wet.

 

[kernr]

Bruce K -
The pictures of the anchor locker bottom show two (approx 1”) holes near floor. Difficult to see the openings. The last set of photos show that a wood plug in one of those holes while I was trying to determine which hole / pipe is leaking. The other photo of the bow shows the cowlings covering the pipe openings to sea. Today the water from hose was getting into fwd bilge even with plug in port hole.

Bob

 

[kernr]

Ted -
It is very difficult to confidently plug the holes from outside or inside. Today with plug in port side water was now coming into fwd bilge. I need to figure a better method of plugging holes. I am trying to not take the cowlings off on outside and if I plug inside and no water comes into bilge then I know the leak is below the anchor locker floor. If I can prove that then some epoxy on inside of boat will certainly prevent water from entering bilge. At one or two feet of depth it is only .5 to 1.0psi of pressure. Because of cowlings there is no force from forward motion of boat - I am guessing it is a static pressure.

The two photos attached show a possible access to area under locker and aft / below the pipe drains. Today I discovered what looks like three screws in base of this locker.

Bob

 

[Bmarler]

Hmm, I might think the cowlings seal to the hull to be the issue. Otherwise it’s just a hole through the hull right? If the lower seal is compromised, the bow wake will push up, through the seal, and into the drain hole.To figure out which one is the problem, you could tape a piece of heavy plastic or rubber sheet over one side, (on the outside of the hull) sealing it well, and go for a spin.

 

[kernr]

Guys -
So, here is the experiment I ran today. I carefully but solidly stuffed two rags in each of the pipe holes at the bottom of the anchor locker. Then I made sure that the fwd bilge was dry - it was. I went topside and took the fresh water hose and with the nozzle on full squirted water at the open end of port cowl for two minutes - results: no water in anchor locker and no water in fwd bilge. I did exactly the same process on stbd cowl - results: no water in anchor locker but stream of water in fwd bilge. So, I dried out fwd bilge and made sure run off had stopped. Performed the same steps again on both port and stbd cowls and got the exact same results.

My conclusion is that the approximately 6” pipe on the stbd side is either cracked or the outboard end is not sealed properly.

The question I now am dealing with is what to do about the leak. I am within about a month of haul out in Rhode Island with no major trips planned. I am tempted to take stbd cowl off and look at pipe exit - probably 4200 holding it on.

Ideas at this point.

Bob

 

[dhays]

Any idea how far back from the cowl opening is the pipe opening? If you are wondering about the seal at the joint between pipes and hull, can reach it with a finger? Does it feel different than the port side of you can?

In other words, pretend you are giving the bow a prostate exam and see what you can feel if you can reach that join. If you can feel a crack or flaw, or even if you think you can, you could try coating it with some Life caulk with you finger. If there is a crack there, it may be enough to get you by until haul out and you wouldn't have to remove the cowl now. Also, LifeCaulk is not permanent like 4200 or 5200.

Just an ignorant idea....

 

[kernr]

dhays -
W/O actually measuring it I would say about 4 to 5 inches assuming they put pipe at fwd end of cowl. At this point I think it best to wait until on hard and up on a sturdy ladder. Thanks for the prostrate exam idea.
Bob

 

[kernr]

Good afternoon -

I took a couple of photos of the send anchor locker drain hole that I found interesting. The first one is with iPhone in anchor locker from about 4” away. The second one is with the iPhone lense right up against the anchor locker hole - you can easily see the hole drilled thru hull. Finally the same shot of thru the port anchor locker hole.

Bob

 

[dhays]

Those are good photos. So the drain holes run down and forward and exit the hull behind those cowls on either side of the bow.

It certainly looks like there is a space where water could accumulate there and if there are any cracks in the fiberglass between that void and the bilge, that could account for your leak.

The Scotch sailor in me wonders if you could run a length of rubber hose though there to bypass that void and just seal the hose flush to the bottom of the locker.
Not a recommendation but an admission of how often I kludge things together.

 

[kernr]

dhays -

Yes, that thought crossed my mind but I would have to have some kind of flange on both ends of a pipe within a pipe. Since I would have to remove the stbd cowling to do what you’re suggesting I will discuss what is going on with a good fiberglass person to see if it makes sense to get some epoxy in around that joint of pipe to outer hull. My guess is that over the16 years of boat age it has worked itself loose. More to come on this effort.

Bob

 

[SteveK]

While you are talking to the glass guy ask him what he thinks about plugging the bottom exit point and filling to the pipe with resin (with hardener) but draining before it sets. My thought it would coat the inside of the drain pipe and plug the leak. but this is just a WAG

 

[Docktopus]

Thank you for posting all the steps you have taken and thanks to everyone who has commented. This thread has been very enlightening, almost a checklist. Since we will all be in this situation someday, it is great to see how everyone is thinking through the process.

 

[dhays]

While you are talking to the glass guy ask him what he thinks about plugging the bottom exit point and filling to the pipe with resin (with hardener) but draining before it sets. My thought it would coat the inside of the drain pipe and plug the leak. but this is just a WAG

Ooo... I like that idea. I'm sure there are very good reasons why it may be a bad idea, but I think it is great!

 

[kernr]

SteveK -
A very interesting thought - with my luck I would wait 10 seconds too long and lose the drain altogether; which may not be the worst thing in world. The other thought I had was to take the stbd cowling off (believe if it’s like the tank vent fittings on outside of hull - it is on there with a 4200 / 5200 sealant) and mix up some epoxy and with a glove put finger coated with epoxy into exit hole and try to seal inside of hull to pipe separation. Do you think that might work?
Bob

 

[SteveK]

finger reach the leak area?
How about a reverse pipe cleaner. Feed a line through and pull a saturated with resin rag or sponge out and then back.