Sausalito Sued over derelict Vessel

[firehoser75]

Yeah, silly poor people right? The nerve for someone to want to enjoy the lifestyle we all get to on a budget. So some of you don't like the look of a moored boat in public waters and root for the government to seize property and destroy it. No thanks, I'll take some run down boats over government intrusion any day, pretty sure that state's been nearly destroyed by the very attitudes shown here.

Personally, I have no problem with "poor people" who are doing their best to survive while being at least mindful of others and "the rules". However, there are some who make no effort to be clean, reasonably tidy, to deal with their waste in an environmentally responsible manner, etc. Then there are those who just abandon their boats (or what is left of them), let them sink, or wash up on someone's property. Who then pays for these irresponsible people and the results of their neglect???
Oh, I know, that is OK as long as it is not the "poor person"???
The issue is (as it is unfortunately in a lot of things) that the irresponsible few give the others a "bad name".
Also as stated by other posters, this problem seems to be spreading quickly and costs to "clean up" are escalating and are already high, whereas costs to try to follow the rules are much, much lower.
I don't feel that my opinion is unreasonable. Think about it. If everyone took no responsibility for anything, what kind of a world would we all live in? I fear it would be quite a mess!!

 

[boatruptcy]

Uh, no one was talking about breaking the law.

 

[jimdavi]

Folks, this is beyond poor people trying to make it. Last article this summer
"During a survey in June, the agency counted 180 boats in the portion of Richardson Bay that’s within its jurisdiction — a 26% increase since March. An additional 91 dinghies were counted. Other boats were in Sausalito waters and were not counted.

Of the 180 boats counted, 103 were determined unseaworthy and 97 either had expired registration or no visible registration. Roughly 59 boats were unoccupied.

Some pictures for you all.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...i=ooCtquw9K9fJwM:&imgrc=hsRbUcWBekBjVM:&vet=1

 

[Giggitoni]

Folks, this is beyond poor people trying to make it. Last article this summer
"During a survey in June, the agency counted 180 boats in the portion of Richardson Bay that’s within its jurisdiction — a 26% increase since March. An additional 91 dinghies were counted. Other boats were in Sausalito waters and were not counted.

Of the 180 boats counted, 103 were determined unseaworthy and 97 either had expired registration or no visible registration. Roughly 59 boats were unoccupied.

Some pictures for you all.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...i=ooCtquw9K9fJwM:&imgrc=hsRbUcWBekBjVM:&vet=1

Hey, Mark! I just saw the Coot in the attached photos. You’re living in Richardson now? Lol...life is great!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. J. Un-seaworthy is a debatable point. Expired or non visible registration IS a mechanism for prosecution and/or removal provided the registered owner is notified of intent to remove if registration is not brought to current standards given a suitable time period.


I still don't see why ownership of a vessel can't be traced. If owner can't be found=boat gone to scrap. Again as I mentioned above, flood the media with notice of a clean up and if an owner isn't forthcoming, get rid of the boat.


BIG difference if someone is aboard and it is their only home. THEN some provision can be made to assist.

 

[Art]

Hey, Mark! I just saw the Coot in the attached photos. You’re living in Richardson now? Lol...life is great!

I saw that too!!! Maybe Mark has been saving $$$$ - LOL

 

[oscar]

OK, let me find my Nomex suit here..... ah there it is. Legs in, arms in, zipped up. OK, here we go.....

How about we have to visit a marina/fuel dock and have a cursory safety inspection performed to get our annual sticker? This ensures that 1: The vessel floats and can navigate, 2: it has the very basic safety equipment on board, 3: It has an approved MSD. 4: There is a human associated that cares.

In know.... a billion reasons why not, starting with "from my cold dead hands". Still, it would make sure that these vessels moved at least once a year and that someone went through the trouble of keeping them somewhat safe/"sea"worthy

FIRE AWAY!

 

[markpierce]

Hey, Mark! I just saw the Coot in the attached photos. You’re living in Richardson now? Lol...life is great!

No, that is the Coot anchored on Mildred (sunken) Island (central Delta) overnight, close to your boat and FlyWright also anchored there. The Coot is presently in a Richmond boatyard for repair and maintenance.

 

[markpierce]

Maybe a partial solution is to have the USCG de-designate Richardson Bay as a "special anchorage" which has exempted it from normal anchorage rules as in day and night displays/lighting.

 

[chrisjbell]

Something notable - this boat was supposed to be moored in Sausalito. It was picked up in *Richmond* - that’s something like 6 or 8 miles across a very busy waterway and I think two restricted area shipping channels. It didn’t just wander to shore - it was a serious navigation hazard.

Yeah, first post but couldn’t stay away from that

 

[JohnP]

Too bad there is not a reasonable way of disposing of an old boat. By the time a boat is near worthless no one is going to spend big bucks to get rid of it. Sell it cheap--give it away-abandon it? Of course someone is going to try to live in it on the cheap!
Affordable housing is another problem. SanFrancisco-New York City! Very expensive to live there--why do the homeless think they can? I can't and I know it. Just Sayin

 

[OldDan1943]

Affordable housing is another problem. SanFrancisco-New York City! Very expensive to live there--why do the homeless think they can? I can't and I know it. Just Sayin

Boy howdy, do I have something to say about this but, I wont.

 

[Larry M]

Boy howdy, do I have something to say about this but, I wont.

Thank you.

 

[OldDan1943]

Thank you.

And from a one time homeless man, you are welcome.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
2 problems solved!


https://unusualplaces.org/equihen-p...9ZJp5yPRbm28tX92spQ3Iu02Ua6n3Lu2ybmnnGz7Ekozk

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

So are there any "Junk" yards for boats?

 

[Art]

So are there any "Junk" yards for boats?

I've seen some marinas that fit the bill!

 

[markpierce]

And from a one time homeless man, you are welcome.

Is this the case of a divorce where the wife gets the home and the man gets the boat?

 

[OldDan1943]

Is this the case of a divorce where the wife gets the home and the man gets the boat?

Nope.

 

[learjett2]

All reasonable sides of this problem are valid but MONEY is now the only thing that matters.
Once the lawyer's get involved common sense will vanish!
Just watch

 

[STB]

There are junk yards for boats, at least in some places. But, they don't often work for free. In the LA Harbor, there is a "crusher". In general, you pay them to take a boat, they strip anything with an immediate market out of it, and they literally crush the boat, scoop up the rubble, and off to solid waste it goes. I've seen some really pretty ones crushed over there. There was a classic paddle wheel river boat one day.

The marina I was at would regularly send boats there when owners quit paying. At a certain point, they didn't really have an option. Even if it costs money to crush a boat -- it'll cost more money over time not to lease the slip it is in.

Yes, they had some work to lien the vessel, etc, and more if it was a documented vessel than state titled -- but they regularly did it. Sometimes owners who recognized the hole they were in would sign the papers over and walk away. But, sometimes not.
But, the marina was very consistent in their handling of such things.

If the vessel appeared to have any value, they'd often try to sell it to friends of marina tenants or by word of mouth for next to nothing just to save the cost of the crusher. They wouldn't advertise or anything, and the purchase window was short.

But, the golden rule was that the boat had to leave the marina at the time of sale. They wouldn't let you keep it there, even if you started paying rent right away. And, even if you paid all of the back rent. I won't say that there were never exceptions -- but they were really rare.

Some people liked to say that the marina blamed the boat for not paying its bills vs the owner. But, I think they had too much history with giving away boats just to have to start the lien process all over again in a few months.

 

[Art]

There are junk yards for boats, at least in some places. But, they don't often work for free. In the LA Harbor, there is a "crusher". In general, you pay them to take a boat, they strip anything with an immediate market out of it, and they literally crush the boat, scoop up the rubble, and off to solid waste it goes. I've seen some really pretty ones crushed over there. There was a classic paddle wheel river boat one day.

The marina I was at would regularly send boats there when owners quit paying. At a certain point, they didn't really have an option. Even if it costs money to crush a boat -- it'll cost more money over time not to lease the slip it is in.

Yes, they had some work to lien the vessel, etc, and more if it was a documented vessel than state titled -- but they regularly did it. Sometimes owners who recognized the hole they were in would sign the papers over and walk away. But, sometimes not.
But, the marina was very consistent in their handling of such things.

If the vessel appeared to have any value, they'd often try to sell it to friends of marina tenants or by word of mouth for next to nothing just to save the cost of the crusher. They wouldn't advertise or anything, and the purchase window was short.

But, the golden rule was that the boat had to leave the marina at the time of sale. They wouldn't let you keep it there, even if you started paying rent right away. And, even if you paid all of the back rent. I won't say that there were never exceptions -- but they were really rare.

Some people liked to say that the marina blamed the boat for not paying its bills vs the owner. But, I think they had too much history with giving away boats just to have to start the lien process all over again in a few months.

I've seen video of fiberglass boat crushing machines as well as video of metal-only crushing/shredding/cutting machines. Also seen video of large wooden boats being cut-up by saws or demolished by articulating crusher-ripper attachments on the end of crane arms.

Metal-only scrap gets recycled; it has value.

Wood eventually decomposes [within a few hundred years]; although costly to initially shred and dispose of.

Many types of boats' fiberglass and/or multi material compositions are a costly and unusable waste; a dollar drain as well as up to many millennium long pollution factors.

I'll take a guess that during the next 50-60 years a very large percentage [70%??] of the millions of already substantially aging cold lam or full-on fiberglass pleasure and work boats now in existence at marinas [many already sit languishing, just waiting to be demolished] will need to be dealt-with.

OUCH - for Planet Earth's ecosystem!!

 

[psneeld]

Awhile back .....some posts were made about how in Europe, yards were given incentives to refurbish older, fiberglass boats and in a few cases they were doing aoak.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
For those that didn't follow the link in post #46...

House the homeless...

 

[OldDan1943]

Greetings,
For those that didn't follow the link in post #46...

House the homeless...

Alas, some group will complain ..... not politically correct to put the homeless in derelict boats.

 

[Art]

Greetings,
For those that didn't follow the link in post #46...

House the homeless...

That is quite cute RT! However...

The real [root and route] problem with and for vast majority of homeless persons is not "homelessness". It is alcoholism, street and precript drug addictions, mental and physical illness; and/or those unfortunates who were naturally born-with very low IQ portions . These life-debilitating, existence crushing afflictions run rampant throughout too many sectors of society. Thus: Enormous size and scope of "The Homeless".

Unfortunately, whether or not boats [faux or otherwise] are turned upside down or left upright... whether or not condos, apartments or mini-houses are provided for most of the homeless persons - They have no desire [or capability] to constructively use that uplift [basic dwelling gift] as a lever to better themselves. Too large a proportion of the homeless population are already "ruined" human beings.

Soylent Green??? - sad, sad, sad!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. OD. I hear what you're saying but surely some bright bulb can put a PC spin on it.
"Yacht homes"?
"Hull havens"?
"Nautical nooks, perhaps?


Edit: Mr. A. Just saw your post and unfortunately agree. The homeless "situation" goes hand in hand with the lack of $$ for needed maintenance of municipal facilities ie: sewage treatment plants, sewers etc.


The whole mess is a sad commentary on the decline of the country. People AND vessels cast aside as derelict and left to rot.

 

[OldDan1943]

Years ago, a well meaning group, in SF, decided they could produce a small abode for the homeless. As I remember, the singular room was well appointed. Alas, a liberal group was "agin" them and called them "dog houses" and demeaning to the homeless.

To these well meaning groups obviously has never gone tent camping or boating.

In a north GA state forest, they designed and built "barrel houses" to rent out for as long as the weather permitted. Small, self-contained, small galley, septic sanitary systems and and and. The authority rented them and had at least a 1 year waiting list.

 

[Woodland Hills]

So where do the homeless go? Away, is not an answer. There is a visible homeless population in most cities for the simple reason that most cities are run by Democrats and Democratic administrations don’t, as a rule, believe in “rousting the bums”. It’s easy to “fix” the issue of visible poverty and lack of affordable housing if you just let the police run them out of town, imprison them or buy them a bus ticket somewhere else. But how is that a solution?
Every alternative costs money and we all know that raising taxes for ANYTHING is simply not going to happen in America. The only reason imprisonment is so popular is that privatization of incarceration is a chance for someone to make money off of the misery of others and that taking money from the poor via fines and penalties helps to support the system.
Never forget that in 2020, the cruelty IS the point.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. OD. Yup. Thread drift, yet again BUT connected...


I suspect that the "liberal group(s)" may have had an ulterior motive for their opposition. A fixed abode is just that, fixed (non movable). Much easier to shoo the homeless out from under a bridge and get them to move on that move real estate. It's the classic NIMBY (not in my back yard) syndrome. "I don't want to look at the derelicts", both boats AND people. Fair enough and understandable but cleaning the waterways of eyesores is much more doable than sending people to the land fill.



As noted by Mr. A, the problem is not simply not having a home, it's not having a life or will to live that needs be addressed. No one with enough money is willing to spend it on rehabilitation for these people and funding to groups willing to spend $$ is sadly lacking.


Addictions have been discussed on TF previously with some members stating that the addicts have brought it upon themselves, made bad choices etc. That's one way to look at the problem but not the way I look at it.

Short of suicide, some have chosen to escape their demons via drugs or alcohol. Some are eventually able to slay said demons and return to society. Others, not so much.


I doubt, very much, anyone wakes up one morning and says "Gee, I think I'll become a heroin addict". Without help from society, heroin, alcohol etc. are options that, sadly, ARE readily available.


Edit: Golly. I type too slowly. Mr. WH. Politics aside, I agree.