Sea going Hybrids are here like it or not

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gaston

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Seagoing Hybrids - Hybrid Electric Marine Propulsion


_wsb_702x569_Beta25-hybrid.jpg
 
You sure use the term "are here" very loosely. Are they possible? Yes. Do they exist? Yes. But when you start asking questions such as "are there a significant number sold and installed?" or "do they have any noticeable market penetration?" then the answer remains a resounding "no."
 
Well yes. As I noted on another thread, a 35' boat has enough space for solar panels to produce 2-3 hp as long as the sun shines. That isn't going to push you very fast.

So IMO solar panel powered boats will always be a gimmick, not a real world solution unless solar panel efficiency gets five times better (almost 100%) than it is now.

David
 
I see a flounder trolling motor. Yum!;)
 
I've followed Solar Sailor since their first ferry built around 2001. Five Solar Sailor's were built ultimately. Now, the company, Ocius, seems to be focused on unmanned craft for exploring the seas and for security purposes, but the idea of the Solar Sailor seems largely by the wayside.

I thought the concept of sail and solar was very interesting and the unique sails being used got my attention. But it seems a lot of vision in this and other projects and then things keep dying away. It's now been 5 years since Planet Solar completed their circumnavigation.
 
Since many boats spend 75% of their time in a marina, I would think that a hybrid drive system would be able to keep the weekend boater satisfied. It won't supply all his locomotion needs, but the diesel will be run considerably less.
 
BandB said:
I thought the concept of sail and solar was very interesting and the unique sails being used got my attention. But it seems a lot of vision in this and other projects and then things keep dying away.
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Because it's so far from being practically useful.

Billionaire toys, Science Projects sure fun to learn about.

Put a diesel in the mix at least you eventually get where you're going, but efficient it's not.

Unless you have no schedule. . .
 
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Benthic2 said:
Since many boats spend 75% of their time in a marina, I would think that a hybrid drive system would be able to keep the weekend boater satisfied. It won't supply all his locomotion needs, but the diesel will be run considerably less.
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So far, I don't see how it helps. Greenline is the largest seller of Hybrids so focusing on a Greenline 39, on a fully charged battery pack it can run 20 miles at 4 knots. At 6.5 knots it can go about half that. So, what is it really doing for you?
 
There is a new Greenline 33 that just showed up in our marina. Very interesting boat. It's totally silent when it leaves and returns. I haven't been able to talk to the owners very much about it. The website shows it comes with a Volvo D3 and an electric motor.
 
porman said:
There is a new Greenline 33 that just showed up in our marina. Very interesting boat. It's totally silent when it leaves and returns. I haven't been able to talk to the owners very much about it. The website shows it comes with a Volvo D3 and an electric motor.
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That's their norm.
 
BandB said:
So far, I don't see how it helps. Greenline is the largest seller of Hybrids so focusing on a Greenline 39, on a fully charged battery pack it can run 20 miles at 4 knots. At 6.5 knots it can go about half that. So, what is it really doing for you?
Click to expand...

Agree. Way too early for electric to go mainstream in boats in my opinion. That said, my wife just got an electric car (VW eGolf) and after owning it for a few months, I would seriously consider an electric car for myself. So quiet and smooth, and obviously a ton of torque. Didn't expect that I'd like it as much as I do.

Sorry, didn't mean to throw the thread on a separate tangent. :ermm:

Mike
 
Time to consider building diesel electric trawlers?
 
BandB said:
Well, there's another thread on Wider 150, which takes a very unique approach to diesel electric.
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BrandB, maybe I should have said small trawlers, less than 50ft. OAL.

Generally speaking, cruise ships are diesel electric.
 
OldDan1943 said:
BrandB, maybe I should have said small trawlers, less than 50ft. OAL.

Generally speaking, cruise ships are diesel electric.
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I know what you mean, but also these things start larger. You see it accepted in 150' boats and it may well make it to 50'.
 
BandB said:
I know what you mean, but also these things start larger. You see it accepted in 150' boats and it may well make it to 50'.
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I suspect Popular Mechanics has addressed this possibility in the last 50 years.
In my case, PM has made me dream about things that might be but, I sure wont live to see it.
 
For a real greeny using wood to feed a steam boiler would seem a perfect solution.

Wood is endlessly renewable ,boat range is not limited ,and the exhaust does not stink like a diesel.

The engineering is already done and kits or fully built engines and boilers are OTS.

My dream bike would be a sidecar with boiler , 0-60 in 3 seconds , in SILENCE!
 
I ponder building a steam engine driven boat using old tires to fire the boiler. You can find old tires anywhere.
 
Ski in NC said:
I ponder building a steam engine driven boat using old tires to fire the boiler. You can find old tires anywhere.
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Ponder all you wish but, don't do it. Way too much work that may not interest anyone but the proud owner.
Burning tires? Might want to post your name and phone number on the hull to make it easier for the EPA to find you. The fuels of choice are, in no particular order, coke, LP gas or wood. Each has its own problems.

AND the daymned thing is VERY hot to be near.

I have constructed a couple of model steam plants taking hours and days to complete. I get them up to steam.... my guests say, "What does it do?"
Considering the various components and the complexity of the steam plants, I got real tired of disinterested people asking that question so I added 4 small electric lamps.
Now, I tell them, "It generates the power to light the lights." Their response, a disinterested "That's nice."

Sometimes one just wants to knock the snot out of them.
 
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I was being a little facetious about the steam plant & tires. I was a steam plant engineer, so fully aware of the downsides and complexities. But my evil side still wants to do it!!!
 
My $.02 on Greenline...

I've been underway on the Greenline 33 and 40 and like them quite a bit. Docking and anchoring in silence is very nice. The generator(s) are integrated with propulsion diesels, eliminating an internal combustion engine. The large battery bank gives you 120V (A/C in Florida) all the time, including claimed decent endurance at anchor. I don't see the electric as primary propulsion, just a quiet option for certain situations, with some excellent side benefits.
 
Philkoury said:
FYI Foss Marine operates hybrid tugs.
Foss’s second hybrid tugboat employs new, more-powerful lithium polymer batteries - Professional Mariner - September 2012
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That's an interesting application with well thought-out benefits. For the Cliff Note's summary, the benefit is that the tub uses full power only 7% of the time, and the rest of the time the giant propulsion engines are more or less idling. So unless they are actively pushing and pulling a heavy load to maneuver a ship, they are running on 125kw to 475kw of generator power, rather than 3800kw of idling behemoths. It makes sense because of the usage pattern.

Also noteworthy is that the port of LA chipped in $1m towards the retrofit project, which had a total cost of $2m. So Foss only paid for half of it.

The project is now 5 years old (2012 article). It would be really interesting to hear a follow up on how it has worked over time.

The real poison with "hybrids" is gross over simplification. People generally understand that hybrids are beneficial in cars, and they are. But very few people understand why. Then people make the leap that if it's good in a car, it must be good in a boat. Horay, let's all buy Greenlines.... But they make the leap with no knowledge of why a hybrid is beneficial in a car, nor any understanding of how it might, or might not be beneficial in a boat. Then they point at a tug like this, or a diesel electric cruise ship and say "look, who cares more about cost than them, and they are doing it". If it's good for them, it must be good for me. But again it's a leap without any understanding of "why".
 
Ski in NC said:
I was being a little facetious about the steam plant & tires. I was a steam plant engineer, so fully aware of the downsides and complexities. But my evil side still wants to do it!!!
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Yea, I know about that evil side but, in my case, I seldom let it out for feeding. Instead, I go for a nap.

Ski, if you saw my one steam plant, I would hope you would be impressed. I even when to the extent of guarding valves and throttle valves. The gas fire is controlled by pressure sensors. My design called for auto feed water pump but, that may never happen. I have jacked up the pressure to constant 100 psi by adding a second burner to the boiler. I have many steam engines and 3 or 4 very nice turbines, at least 4 extra boilers. Alas, the folks who made the turbines and boilers are no longer in business but, I've got mine.

I guess my years and experiences in the Navy (MM1 SS) paid off in un-expecting ways.
 
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This is not about a hybrid, but an all electric ferry planned to change from diesel to pure electric mid 2018.

The only way this works is:

$1.09M from EPA
3 mile route each way
5 trips a day (only, plenty of recharge time)

Sat in on a talk about this ferry at last years electric and hybrid propulsion show, cool concept, unlikely location, helped a lot it had significant historical significance.

Gee's Bend Ferry |

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-awards-109-million-dera-grant-gees-bend-ferry-wilcox-county-al

:socool:
 
Ski in NC said:
I ponder building a steam engine driven boat using old tires to fire the boiler. You can find old tires anywhere.
Click to expand...

If someone managed to steal it, it would be easier to track than a Lojack. ?
 
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