SeaPipers - Why?

[Fish53]

We're getting our scenarios out of kilter

You suggested a SeaPiper would be in danger if, "...an overnight storm is moving in and you're just too far from shelter to escape it and you're forced to watch more seaworthy vessels weather the blow while you contemplate your chances for survival"...which made me think you were talking about vessels large enough to stay at sea to weather a storm.

Something I wouldn't want to do in any small boat!

Is 28' a "small boat" I've sailed my Cape Dory 28 to Bermuda and survived just fine. Seaworthiness is not a function of size but a complicated function of vessel design and proper seamanship. But of course this is not relevant to the current conversation so please disregard.

 

[psneeld]

It's like here when many think not very much of houseboats ( in which there are many varied designs but group them all the same). Many almost go apoplectic if someone suggests one for the loop.

Despite the fact that many have done it and even have a website about it.

Now I am not talking about daredevils who row across oceans or sail 6 footers across...just normal folk who get it and act appropriately.

Are there fools in every adventure? Sure, but when enough normal people do something, for others who think they know what they are talking about say bad idea....I gotta wonder.

 

[MurrayM]

Is 28' a "small boat" I've sailed my Cape Dory 28 to Bermuda and survived just fine. Seaworthiness is not a function of size but a complicated function of vessel design and proper seamanship. But of course this is not relevant to the current conversation so please disregard.

A 21’ sea kayak was paddled solo by Ed Gillette from California to Hawaii before GPS, but we’re talking ‘trawlers’ here.

 

[MurrayM]

It's like here when many think not very much of houseboats ( in which there are many varied designs but group them all the same). Many almost go apoplectic if someone suggests one for the loop.

Despite the fact that many have done it and even have a website about it.

Now I am not talking about daredevils who row across oceans or sail 6 footers across...just normal folk who get it and act appropriately.

Are there fools in every adventure? Sure, but when enough normal people do something, for others who think they know what they are talking about say bad idea....I gotta wonder.

If you read further down in this Kasten article, he could flex this design up to be Inside Passage worthy...with a critical ‘weather eye’.

36' DRIFTER - Houseboat for Inland Waterways

 

[hgd]

OldDan1943-Loved your note!

HDG,
You sure have 'put a lot of perfume on the pig'. I mean that in a humorous manner. You have successfully made the boat YOURS.
For those who wish to "improve" your center cockpit..... it can be done with structure and fiber glass. SMILE
(A side note, I wonder why someone has not designed a boat with the helm all the way forward like the old ore carriers.)
HDG, perhaps you can start up a business that modifies standard boat to your design. Ah but then, you would have little time to use your boat. 'Nebber mind.'
The one problem yet to be over come on your boat and my AT34 is storage, especially the hanging closet. You and I can live out of drawer but, if you have a lady onboard, she will need at least 3 drawers and a minimum of a 3 ft wide hanging closet.
Per the head. Make the wheel house 2ft longer, steal a few inches from the interior of the wheel house and stuff some sort of urinal in that closet. Perhaps a cartridge crapper as used on the canal boats in Europe?
HDG, every modification you have made, make sense. I applaud your efforts.

One question, is the canopy over your center cockpit canvas or fiber glass?

Again, I applaud your efforts and modifications. You have created, in my feeble mind, a fantastic "man's boat". Of course, a partner lady may feel otherwise. TEASE

The top of the Bimini is, stretched as tight as a drum, a PVC canvas called Stamoid. If it and I am still around, after its 10 yr warrantee, I would consider changing it some light weight fiberglass.
Your note about sailing with the superior sex, needs a comment. Mine is perfectly happy with the 3ft hanging locker and with all the additional storage space I created by adding Textolene drop down panels on both the port and starboard sides, above the shelfs of the V berth. However, V berths suck! I made them suck less by adding SS handles on all three sides of the bunk to ease entry and exit. I have yet to add this to the blog.

 

[psneeld]

While I am hesitant to contemplate it...people have taken their houseboats to the Bahamas..... Some trawler owners wait for lake like conditions to cross.


Even lakes can be dangerous...look at the last Duck boat accident...used for rough surf landing by the military (despite it's dismal safety record in testing). Yet same lake and how many houseboats and bowriders and skiffs that were out but didn't sink in that storm?


While new boaters need to read a million of these threads in addition to getting their own experience....just so they don't lock on to one opinion or train of thought and improperly displace it to their needs which may not be ocean crossings, or multi day passages or risk poor weather forecasts thinking their boat and experience will always save them.


Picked too many experience boaters out of the water to think anyone is invulnerable.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I agree with most of what you said particularly the way most use their boats and the marketing thereof. I would respectfully direct your attention to the last sentence of my cited comment. I and I suspect you deviate somewhat from the norm where boats are concerned, we are after all owners of full displacement craft which appear to be in a minority.

Yes indeed,
And respect is assumed. After all it’s TF.

Deviation ? Nawww .... howe doo youu speel thut?

Had no idea someone else would mention QBBL tho.

 

[OldDan1943]

HDG has taken his boat and "made it his boat". He is happy. All his mechanical/electrical changes are reasonable and well thought out.
With the exception of center cockpit cover I dont think he made any structural changes.
HDG is living within the factory designed "envelope" of the boat.
Gotta give HDG credit.

LOL I guess he could add 'tip outs' like some RVs.

 

[Fish53]

Yes indeed,
And respect is assumed. After all it’s TF.

Deviation ? Nawww .... howe doo youu speel thut?

Had no idea someone else would mention QBBL tho.

I think that comes from my misspent time in the maritime academy.

 

[Nepidae]

First time I saw the design I thought it was a Captain's gig from the aircraft carrier I was stationed on in the '60s.

 

[Fish53]

A 21’ sea kayak was paddled solo by Ed Gillette from California to Hawaii before GPS, but we’re talking ‘trawlers’ here.

I did after all address the relevance of my comment and suggested you disregard, but then I didn't inject kayaks into this nor would I call a Seapiper a trawler anywhere but on here. Once again please disregard my distressing use of opinions.

 

[Northern Spy]

Interesting design, impractical for live aboard, maybe fine for short trips. Layout does point to fancy working boat! Too much wasted space.

Too much wasted space.

One could say the same about a boat with a salon, two recliners and a television.

All in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

 

[Trimjb]

Here’s a little know fact about SeaPiper for you motorcycle riders.
SeaPipers mother company is ProCom Engineering. Designing and Manufacturing electrical components for for motorcycles.
Also DBA SeaPiper.
You can find Ritzo there also designing and engineering motorcycle components.
So next time your in the market for components check out:
https://www.electrosport.com

 

[sunchaser]

The top of the Bimini is, stretched as tight as a drum, a PVC canvas called Stamoid. If it and I am still around, after its 10 yr warrantee, I would consider changing it some light weight fiberglass..

Stamoid is great stuff and a favorite for many, including us. I'd say you've got things pretty well figured out, good work. Nice to see some miles being traveled too. Don't feel compelled to justify your decisions.

 

[localboy]

Yes it can. But I don't want a vehicle that big and heavy for my daily driver and I don't want that much tied up in a truck the gets used a few times a year.

Buy used. I paid $25K for a 4 yr old Ford F-250 with 36K miles in ‘09. Pulls the boat without issue. It’s no Prius, but it does what I need it to do.

 

[OldDan1943]

Stamoid is great stuff and a favorite for many, including us. I'd say you've got things pretty well figured out, good work. Nice to see some miles being traveled too. Don't feel compelled to justify your decisions.

Stamoid sounds like and interesting product. How does it lend itself to side curtains with isinglass inserts?
Thanks for the information. It about time to replace the canvas over my aft cockpit.

 

[David Ess]

Indeed, I was banned for a month for being too deviant.

 

[sunchaser]

Stamoid sounds like and interesting product. How does it lend itself to side curtains with isinglass inserts?
Thanks for the information. It about time to replace the canvas over my aft cockpit.

We have Lexan side curtains and front on the FB Stamoid enclosure. Glass clear and very durable. Years ago we had Eisinglas on a Searay. Lexan for us is a giant step forward. But, it all comes down to the quality of the install. PM me your email and I'll forward some pictures.

 

[DDW]

Actually I said it would increase interior volume however neither that nor an increase in draft need increase displacement which as we all know is a function of weight. Regardless I'm sort of wondering about the wisdom of a 35', 20,000lb boat compromised by a need to be trailered. Otherwise as I said I kind of like it.

If you slacken bilges and increase draft, you will either increase displacement or the boat will float way above its lines. That volume has to displace water to get to its lines, and it needs to be heavy enough to do that.

As noted previously, the empty displacement is claimed to be 12,500, not 20,000. If I was loading it up for a trip across the country I'd surely run it down on fuel and empty the water tanks.

 

[OldDan1943]

LOL Come on folks. Unless you are going to open and invest in a boat building company, you have to work within the factory prepared boat. You can change the interior but not the outer shell of the hull.
One of the major goals was to keep it trailerable (without permits etc). That put constraints on the length and width.

HDG's mods are all internal to the hull. That is Rule #1 inside the hull.

 

[Fish53]

If you slacken bilges and increase draft, you will either increase displacement or the boat will float way above its lines. That volume has to displace water to get to its lines, and it needs to be heavy enough to do that.

As noted previously, the empty displacement is claimed to be 12,500, not 20,000. If I was loading it up for a trip across the country I'd surely run it down on fuel and empty the water tanks.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, on both issues. As I stated, but requiring clarification displacement is a function of weight, draft is a function of hull form. Draft can be increased by altering hull form with no increase in weight. Displacement cannot be altered without an adjustment in weight. Seapiper gives a design displacement of 17,000# and a dry weight of 13500#, usually design displacement is expressed with 50% fuel and full on all other liquids but excludes crew and stores which I took the liberty of estimating along with full fuel at 3000# hence my ballpark of 20,000#. Now I agree one could remove everything possible from the boat to trailer but doesn't that just make trailering even that much more silly? I do however applaud your use of "slacken bilges" which is roughly correct and god forbid is related to the buttock angle.

 

[NCheaven]

A+ for innovation!

So many interesting comments! Good job, TF members!

My $.02:
A+ for innovation.
A for ease of exterior maintenance, same as with my Camano - no exterior wood. But, I do love looking at exterior wood on other people's boats!
A for hands and knees good access to the engine room - looks more accessible than my engine.
A for an efficient narrow hull concept - like the old yachts in the early 1900s - there's one in the Herreschoff museum in Bristol RI. I'm not sure that I want that, but it's great that there is one on the market as an alternative.
A for a smaller engine. Isn't that where the trawler rebirth started, such as the classic GB 32 - 120 hp, Mainship 34s with a 165 Perkins, Nordic Tug 26? The Mainship was also a great value with less interior woodwork than the GB.

I'll assume that the builders know more about what they were doing with the open center cockpit than I do, so no rating on that, but having the head closer to the living space would make sense to me. Sort of like art galleries.....what I don't understand may be a $5,000,000 Picasso, so what I don't initially gravitate to is a great chance for me to keep my mouth shut.

So, I come out very glad to see this innovation on the market, can't wait to see one on the water. I'm hoping this innovation and good value will help rebuild interest by some people using trawlers as......trawlers, traveling at more moderate fuel cost, gunkholing, etc. I do like having some extra speed, if you call WOT 14.4 kts "speed", on my Camano, but respect those who choose otherwise - and usually I'm one of those - a 7.2 kt guy most of the time.

I am sure that very many people will be delighted with Sea Pipers, and I hope one of them will offer me a chance to come aboard!

 

[DDW]

I'm afraid you are mistaken, on both issues. As I stated, but requiring clarification displacement is a function of weight, draft is a function of hull form. Draft can be increased by altering hull form with no increase in weight. Displacement cannot be altered without an adjustment in weight. Seapiper gives a design displacement of 17,000# and a dry weight of 13500#, usually design displacement is expressed with 50% fuel and full on all other liquids but excludes crew and stores which I took the liberty of estimating along with full fuel at 3000# hence my ballpark of 20,000#. Now I agree one could remove everything possible from the boat to trailer but doesn't that just make trailering even that much more silly? I do however applaud your use of "slacken bilges" which is roughly correct and god forbid is related to the buttock angle.

Of course you can increase draft without increasing displacement. But any volume added from the increased draft (and there will be some) has to come out somewhere else, or you have increase weight (and displacement, which are equal if on its lines). You said:

my personal preference would be for more depth by softening the chine and increasing the buttock angle to give it a draft of 4 feet. This would add interior volume and allow for a larger propeller and increased gearbox reduction, this would make it both more efficient and a better seaboat.

If increasing the draft by whatever means increases interior volume, it increases the volume which must be displaced. The dry weight listed on their brochure is 12,500. Crew, most fuel, and most expendable stores surely aren't going to be on board when you put it on the trailer - that would indeed be silly. You'd have "owners outfit" which might be 1000 lbs. Plus however optimistic they were on the empty displacement.

If you give up the trailerability requirement, then many characteristics of the boat make less sense.

 

[MurrayM]

SeaPipers - Why Not?

In a magical world where whoever wanted to have a boat could have one designed just for them and their wants/needs, there would be no two identical boats.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

For a trailerable boat I would give them serious consideration, and I find its lines pleasing to the eye myself. But only for a couple or one person.

A downside is the second berth not being built in, but rather done by repurposing the table. With our two boys on board that would get tiresome. The Ranger Tugs have this figured out - though it isn’t an ideal space at least it is a space. The trade off is that you get a true engine space on the SP.

 

[Fish53]

Of course you can increase draft without increasing displacement. But any volume added from the increased draft (and there will be some) has to come out somewhere else, or you have increase weight (and displacement, which are equal if on its lines). You said:



If increasing the draft by whatever means increases interior volume, it increases the volume which must be displaced. The dry weight listed on their brochure is 12,500. Crew, most fuel, and most expendable stores surely aren't going to be on board when you put it on the trailer - that would indeed be silly. You'd have "owners outfit" which might be 1000 lbs. Plus however optimistic they were on the empty displacement.

If you give up the trailerability requirement, then many characteristics of the boat make less sense.

I'll say this one more time but that's it, volume is not mass. The displacement of a floating object is exactly the weight of the water displaced by the immersed portion of the object, regardless of shape or volume. When we refer to the volume of a hull it's not just the immersed portion it's the entire hull.
The Seapiper website states a dry weight of 13500 pounds and it's irrelevant to all but the half a dozen people that can afford a truck to tow the thing after spending all day pumping the fuel, oil and water out along with unloading every other item on the boat.

 

[MurrayM]

What's so implausible about towing this boat when some people put their big bloated top heavy trawlers on ships to far flung corners of the planet?

 

[psneeld]

I think someone is not reading some posts carefully enough.

 

[MurrayM]

I think someone is not reading some posts carefully enough.

You mean this bit?

...The Seapiper website states a dry weight of 13500 pounds and it's irrelevant to all but the half a dozen people that can afford a truck to tow the thing after spending all day pumping the fuel, oil and water out along with unloading every other item on the boat.

 

[psneeld]

You mean this bit?

Nope......