Seeking advice

[Peter B]

As a former live aboard sailor moving into retirement, my wife and I are starting to look at trawler type vessels. When I moved off the sailboat, I said that I would not have another boat that was not big enough to have a bath tub. Should I look for less or more?
Merry Christmas,
Ron

I applaud every aspect of your thoughts. You've done an excellent job of separating today's needs and desires from yesteryears.... the boat you're talking about will serve the two of you for as long as possible. It will allow you to boat longer and with more pleasure than one not fitting what you've outlined. You still aren't likely to get your bathtub, but nice sized showers, and although not many seen on boats that size, there is nothing preventing you from adding a small hot tub on the bridge.

Our shower also has a nice seat. Not a bathtub, but comfortable enough... Chris

Marine trader 36ft sun deck! Has everything you are looking for even the bathtub. Unfortunately my boat is not for sale! ��

The bathtub thing is not that hard. We had one in the 60ft long, 7 ft wide narrowboat we hired in the UK. But never used it, just showered in it. Even the bathtub at home is seldom used. My wife maybe once a year after a hard day gardening. Me never. Showers are so much quicker, cleaner, and frugal of water also. In my view tubs are a waste of space on a boat. Don't let that be a major yardstick or deal-breaker is all I'm saying.

 

[BandB]

The bathtub thing is not that hard. We had one in the 60ft long, 7 ft wide narrowboat we hired in the UK. But never used it, just showered in it. Even the bathtub at home is seldom used. My wife maybe once a year after a hard day gardening. Me never. Showers are so much quicker, cleaner, and frugal of water also. In my view tubs are a waste of space on a boat. Don't let that be a major yardstick or deal-breaker is all I'm saying.

Wifey B: Not that hard but not that common in smaller boats. We opted out of one for a larger shower when we had a choice. As we normally shower together that was much more important.

We do occasionally use the "bathtub" at home but not really with bathing as the overriding need. Just a nice jacuzzi for two.

 

[Peter B]

Wifey B: Not that hard but not that common in smaller boats. We opted out of one for a larger shower when we had a choice. As we normally shower together that was much more important.

We do occasionally use the "bathtub" at home but not really with bathing as the overriding need. Just a nice jacuzzi for two.

Well, there yuh go Wifey B. My case rests, as the lawyers tend to say...

 

[iflypby]

The bathtub comment was a “tongue-in-cheek” comment about how compact and small the living spaces below on the sailboat were. We do not wish to be required to go on deck to have enough space to change our minds. You showered while sitting on the toilet and then had to go into the passage way to towel off. You then went back into the head to wipe everything down for the next victim. A M/Y with its basic rectangular shape versus the sailboat with its “V” shape provides a tremendously greater volume of potential living space for an equivalent length.
I still prefer the journey on a sailboat if the sails are able to be used for propulsion, but swinging on the hook the M/Y wins every time in my opinion.
The Chris looks like a comfortable vessel, just never thought of one as a costal cruiser.

 

[OldDan1943]

Want a tub? Go to a farm supply store, buy a big galvanized tub, put it on deck, run the water to it via a hose and bath to your heart's content. Yea yea, I know, you forgot to put a drain in it. Next time drill a hole, put a cork into it for a drain.
See, problem solved.

Free advice is often worth what you paid for it.

 

[ranger58sb]

The Chris looks like a comfortable vessel, just never thought of one as a costal cruiser.

Can't think of anywhere on the U.S. east coast that it wouldn't work...

In our case, that would assume attention to weather and so forth, but then we do that anyway.

-Chris

 

[BandB]

You showered while sitting on the toilet and then had to go into the passage way to towel off. You then went back into the head to wipe everything down for the next victim. .

Wifey B: That's called a wet shower as opposed to a separate dry shower. Of course a dry shower is wet but doesn't wet the entire room. :lol:

We would never have a boat to cruise with a wet head/shower.

 

[BandB]

Want a tub? Go to a farm supply store, buy a big galvanized tub, put it on deck, run the water to it via a hose and bath to your heart's content. Yea yea, I know, you forgot to put a drain in it. Next time drill a hole, put a cork into it for a drain.
See, problem solved.

Free advice is often worth what you paid for it.

Wifey B: Actually have seen that done on some of these tiny home shows. Don't have to take it on deck, just set it in the shower. Mom wanted shower, but wanted tubs for her kids. So, they built a small shower, then took just what you describe and put it right in the middle of the shower. Kids loved it and easy for mom to stand there in it and shower. A cute way to convert any shower to a tub I guess. I'm sure could be done with other materials as well. Concept works.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yup and the tubs come in all sizes.

 

[FlyWright]

If I was looking for pretty much everything you mentioned, especially the big beds, stabilizers and stand up ER in that budget, I’d opt for a Criss Craft 501 and save the balance of the budget for maintenance and fuel. Scroll down in the link below.

1990 Chris-Craft 501 Motor Yacht 4 Stateroom Power Boat For Sale -

I think I just fell in love again! If that boat had a cockpit, I'd buy it and move aboard! (Don't tell the Admiral.)

 

[dirtdoc1]

I think I just fell in love again! If that boat had a cockpit, I'd buy it and move aboard! (Don't tell the Admiral.)

For a 1990 boat to still look that good means it's a really well built boat and of course well maintained. What a wonderful boat. It's even stabilized but they didn't put thrusters on them in those days. That will cost $20-$30k. I have to have thrusters on a boat that size. I know there are people who have no need for them, which blows my mind.

 

[FF]

"I think I just fell in love again! If that boat had a cockpit, I'd buy it and move aboard! "

Take a look at the Midnight Lace series of boats , the FWD cockpit makes nice days underway glorious days !

 

[catalinajack]

My 52’ Choey Lee has everything you are looking for except the stabilizers. But they are available with stabilizers in the price range OP is looking for. True stand up engine room and separate laundry area. I can walk anywhere on my boat without ducking my head. Except the lazarette.

Just delivered an ‘88, 44’ DeFever this month. My back was killing me by the end of the delivery. Spent a lot of time in the Machinery Spaces and they are not even close to true stand up heights. My observation.

Not even close to stand-up heights? Geez, I'm 6'1" and don't have any problem working in the engine room of my Defever 44. True, I cannot stand up fully but most of what I need to accomplish is not done standing up. I'm not on the boat but as I recall, the clearance is 5.5 feet. Not many boats can boast this.

 

[BandB]

Not even close to stand-up heights? Geez, I'm 6'1" and don't have any problem working in the engine room of my Defever 44. True, I cannot stand up fully but most of what I need to accomplish is not done standing up. I'm not on the boat but as I recall, the clearance is 5.5 feet. Not many boats can boast this.

Which in no way refutes what he said. Not even close to stand up height. Doesn't mean it's unacceptable.

 

[McGillicuddy]

Not even close to stand-up heights? Geez, I'm 6'1" and don't have any problem working in the engine room of my Defever 44. True, I cannot stand up fully but most of what I need to accomplish is not done standing up. I'm not on the boat but as I recall, the clearance is 5.5 feet. Not many boats can boast this.

Well, I am 6’1” also as is the new owner. I did not measure the height of the machinery space but it didn’t feel like more than 5’ from the floor plates to the lowest headknocker but I can stand corrected. Also the door is, what, 4’ tall? Required a feet first or head first entry. I had issues with the starboard coupling pin during the trip so I was in and out of there a lot and had a sore back to prove it. Being 63 and post three surgeries may have something to do with my lack of flexibility in this regard.

I did change the Racor filters on both engines and generator during the trip and found the most comfortable way to do that was move around on my knees. If I owned the boat I would own a set of knee pads.

I am not knocking the boat, which I quite liked for the trip. But I wouldn’t tout the ER headroom as one of its salient features.

 

[FF]

"If I owned the boat I would own a set of knee pads."

A metal milk crate works well., if you prefer sitting.

 

[BandB]

"If I owned the boat I would own a set of knee pads."

A metal milk crate works well., if you prefer sitting.

You can also have plenty of standing room and still need to get on your knees or use a crate or stool. Everything you need to do will not be at height. One thing I suggest is whatever ER and other working conditions your boat affords, organize it and develop a plan to be able to safely and comfortably do what you need to. This goes from hand holds, knee pads, ear protection, protective clothing to how things are organized and stored and tool kits. Think of things as you would if you were an industrial engineer trying to reduce time required and develop procedures to do it safely and with the least time and effort. If you need a crate or something to sit on, get it, don't talk about getting it, and get the best you can for the need you have. The upfront effort will pay off many times over.

 

[OldDan1943]

You can also have plenty of standing room and still need to get on your knees or use a crate or stool. Everything you need to do will not be at height. One thing I suggest is whatever ER and other working conditions your boat affords, organize it and develop a plan to be able to safely and comfortably do what you need to. This goes from hand holds, knee pads, ear protection, protective clothing to how things are organized and stored and tool kits. Think of things as you would if you were an industrial engineer trying to reduce time required and develop procedures to do it safely and with the least time and effort. If you need a crate or something to sit on, get it, don't talk about getting it, and get the best you can for the need you have. The upfront effort will pay off many times over.

I had considered 'adopting' what appears to be a homeless dairy crate but I figure the cops were watching and I am STILL to pretty to go to prison.

 

[iflypby]

My requirement for a standup engine room is my belief the easier the engineering spaces are to access the more they will be entered to inspect and maintain, especially underway. Little maintenance is preformed at eye level but quite a bit of inspection is.

 

[BandB]

My requirement for a standup engine room is my belief the easier the engineering spaces are to access the more they will be entered to inspect and maintain, especially underway. Little maintenance is preformed at eye level but quite a bit of inspection is.

Every boat is a compromise. I have seen stand up engine rooms where access was still bad. Twins you couldn't fit between without risk of burning and with no protective rails. I've yet to be on any boat under 60' in which I could stand at full height in the engine room in it's entirety. But then that's something I'm use to on land and water.

 

[FF]

My boat the engine is under a hatch has almost no sitting room.

This is hardly a problem as the fuel filters are not located in the ER , nor is the battery set.

Oil changes are about the only reason to visit , and with a hand cranked drum pump, 8 gal are quickly removed .

One does work fast as the oil is at high operating temperature , so the oil detergents can carry away the goop.

Other service items are belts for hyd pump for steering and of course an alternator belt .

Only the steering pump belt night need to be replaced underway , perhaps 5 min.

As a diesel there is no need for an alt that dies to be repaired instantly.

I have had many boats over the years and have no concept why anyone would be willing to give up the space to be able to stand next to operating engines .

Most repairs are done dockside , where touching the engine is no problem.


"I had considered 'adopting' what appears to be a homeless dairy crate "

The best milk crates are all metal, probably 30 years out of date.

 

[iflypby]

I agree that most repairs will have to wait until the vessel has stopped, whether at dock, anchor or at sea. My experience with the sailboat has not been pleasant when I had to perform repairs or maintenance of any kind while under way. Even with a cold engine there are many ways to damage your space suit with the rocking and rolling. My research has led me to believe that at the minimum, an engineering space inspection should be preformed at least once an hour while underway. If you have to raise cabin sole hatch’s or crawl through the lazzerett hatch while the vessel is rolling and pitching, safety for the crew would dictate those inspections should be discontinued. Conversely, if you can gain access comfortably and safely, standard watch procedures can be followed. You are probably not going to find “standup” engineering spaces in a 40 foot boat. That is one of the reasons that a 49-54 foot boat is being considered.
Our plans are not to be marina yacht lizards, we have a nice house in the country in South Florida. I would rather sip scotch by my pool with no one within 500 feet than cool my jets at the slip. It is like living in a condo. Been there, done that. Lots of Tee shirts. Down to the Keys or out to the Bahama’s will be our main destinations. Once there, swinging at the hook is the preferred option. We like people, just not crowds.
Happy New Year!!! May you have West winds and safe voyages.

 

[FF]

"My research has led me to believe that at the minimum, an engineering space inspection should be preformed at least once an hour while underway."

Boats are more reliable than autos (after the first 500 hours) do you stop hourly to inspect the car engine? Of course not!

A lifting hatch will allow your EYEBALLS access ,to inspect as often as desired, although rugs or floor sound damping can make it a chore.

WE have found that once after shutdown is sufficient to inspect the engine room.

That way we know all is well for an AM departure or a midnight anchor drill .

With the low cost a camera and lamp could be mounted below ,

but to actually monitor an engine Murphy Alarm Gauges do a far better job.

 

[Seevee]

iflypby,

Do you fly a PBY like your avatar suggests? I'm sure that would be worth a thread by itself.

Would be a great second home.

 

[iflypby]

I do, or should say that I have. As happens to most older vessels, the Cat has been down several years for restoration. She is one of the last LandSeaire conversions which modified the old girl into a flying yacht. Hopefully she will be back airworthy in the next couple of years.

 

[NewbieFromNJ]

If you are retired and living aboard you shouldnt really have time constraints.
You can sit back, have a few adult beverages and enjoy that anchorage while waiting for some better weather.

2 years living aboard on the hook doing around 500nm/mth and as yet to be in weather where we wished we had stabilizers and the upside is we never had the added maintenance cost drag and fuel burn that comes with them.

We have had to change course slightly and tack to avoid roll, but never more than a couple of hours of that and, we have noticed considerably better ride with more weight/full tanks.
Larger heavier boat is good.

Flopper stoppers on the other hand are something we will be putting on, roll at anchor is rare, but has been annoying enough to have chased us from an otherwise ideal anchorage to another anchorage 100+ nm away to get out of it after several days/nights of little sleep.
Most stabilizers won't address this problem.

Simi 60, did you ever install flopper stoppers on your boat. I am 2 years away from pulling the trigger with a pretty good idea of what I will be looking for. The boat (used) must have active stabilizers otherwise a no go per the future admiral. My concern is roll at anchor and the only way to go it appears is using flopper stoppers. No interest in a gyro retrofit on a boat bought w/o stabilizers.

 

[Delfin]

Simi 60, did you ever install flopper stoppers on your boat. I am 2 years away from pulling the trigger with a pretty good idea of what I will be looking for. The boat (used) must have active stabilizers otherwise a no go per the future admiral. My concern is roll at anchor and the only way to go it appears is using flopper stoppers. No interest in a gyro retrofit on a boat bought w/o stabilizers.

Not sure if this will be helpful, but roll at anchor is something you get pretty well habituated to, within limits, of course. I remember tying up to a mooring buoy outside Lahaina and thinking how wonderful it felt not to be rocking and rolling underway anymore. When we were motored ashore I looked back and the mast of our boat looked like a metronome set to Allegro. But by comparison to the open ocean, it felt completely stable when on board. Flopper stoppers do help, though.

 

[NewbieFromNJ]

Well, I sense from your post that you kinda get use to it. I started with a wife that would just look at a boat and get seasick. So I started big, cruise ships. Here she had anxiety leading up to our first cruise but in the end all was OK. We went on to take 4 more cruises with no incidents to speak of. Then in 2017 we took a offshore powerboat course in BVI. We "learned" on a 43 ft power catamaran. My wife did have some minor discomfort early on but it waned as the days on the water passed. We moored most of the time in calm to relatively calm water. A cat is relatively stable at anchor. My wife was ok but noticed that some of the monohulls at anchor rolled. She understands I want a monohull so she asked is that going to happen to us when moored or anchored. I said "no honey we will have stabilizers". Well 1/2 lie as active stabilizers we be on the "must have" list. They will not as you know work at anchor unless you have the gyros. Thus my question about flopper stoppers.

 

[BandB]

Well 1/2 lie as active stabilizers we be on the "must have" list. They will not as you know work at anchor unless you have the gyros. Thus my question about flopper stoppers.

You can get zero speed stabilizers as well. Don't have to be gyros.

 

[NewbieFromNJ]

This is why besides financial issues I need 2 more years of research. I will look into the zero speed stabilizers. Thanks B