Seller refusing to return my $1000 deposit when I backed of the deal

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Actually, as I recall it wasn't the Coast Guard that did the inspection, it was AK Dept of Fish and Game. Usually the CG is very active during the fishing derby that time of year, so I mis-spoke. So what is your take on it? Is the State overstepping their authority in requiring dual registration?
 
A lot of states require documented vessels to be state registered. In NY, for example, if you're documented, you get state registration, but you only put the reg sticker on the boat, no state reg numbers displayed. You only display the state reg numbers if you're not documented.
 
Group9 is right. My boat is USCG documented/titled and WA state registered (not titled). Just WA registered to pay the sales tax and annular registration fee-yeah.
 
rslifkin said:
A lot of states require documented vessels to be state registered. In NY, for example, if you're documented, you get state registration, but you only put the reg sticker on the boat, no state reg numbers displayed. You only display the state reg numbers if you're not documented.
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Actually in NY the only # on the registration is the Fed Documrntation #. They do not issue a state # if documented and the registration is marked non-transferable.
 
Well, assuming I understand the 2019 Alaska statutes and regs correctly, I don't think they're conflicting or overstepping the fed regulations. I wouldn't call their requirement dual registration either. Just as the others have said, it's pretty common for states to require state registration of documented boats (you just don't have to display the state reg numbers on the bow pursuant to 46 USC 12106(a)). And I mentioned in another thread that South Dakota now does two different state registrations on top of my federal documentation, a local body of water registration to waive zebra mussel inspections, so I assume local jurisdictions could even do multiple registrations if they want. But what I don't get is why Alaska would have that alternative state "certificate of number" system, instead of simply requiring all boats (documented and otherwise) to be state registered. I don't get the purpose of that dual or differentiated, very complicated approach when state reg of all boats would serve the same purpose.

So for the Alaskans on here with documented boats, did you apply for your state certificate of number? And it still seems to me that AK F&G officer misunderstood the current requirements and isn't aware of 46USC 122106(a) and he still can't require bow numbers on documented boats -- but he can ask for your state certificate of number "carried on board." But then maybe I'm missing something and I'm out to lunch.


(I'm interested in this because I'm a former Alaskan and someday we may do the "Big U" and motor our boat back someday.)
 
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I put a deposit on a boat not knowing about CG undocument process

It's a simple contract saying that, I'm giving him a $1000 deposit and if everything goes well then I'll by the boat. That's pretty much. The thing that made me change my mind is the fact that I won't be able to regiester the boat in NY untill the boat gets undocumented! I didn't file right about it.

He could have done this before hand to make things easier. I don't want to endup with a boat that I won't be able to use it!

I've filed a complaint with consumer protection agency in the county where the boat is located. Let's see what happens. I'm also thinking file a case against the seller in small claims court.

Thanks,
Lias
 
HE wanted a $2000 deposit when I ask him to take the boat for a test ride. But I gave him $1000 and I just made a simple agreement saying that, if everything goes well then I'd buy the boat. That's pretty much.
 
There are sites that do a background on the boat. You do need to supply the necessary information. Sadly, that site has disappeared from my limited brain cells.
I am sure someone will remember the site and ideally post it for you here.

Important to verify there are no leans on the boat at the time of purchasing it.

Per un-documenting a boat is very simple. The current documentation does not transfer to the new owner.
Per the boat's title, that is held by the lending institution unless you paid cash and then, you hold the title free and clear. At that point, the Feds may ask you to physically surrender the title.
Any lending institution understands all this documentation/title crap.
If for some reason, the Feds phyically enlist your boat I do believe you are still responsible for the payments. Just a guess.
 
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Group9 said:
Federal documentation would interfere with "titling" a boat with the state. It doesn't not interfere with "registering" a boat with the state.

And why doesn't he just use the Coast Guard Bill of Sale Document (CG - 1340) to sell you the boat, and then you can redocument it, or undocument it, or whatever you want.

Either the seller is ignorant, or there is a problem with the title he isn't telling you about.

Small claims court is probably the best place to go to get your deposit back if this can't be worked out, but I'm not familiar with New York law.
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"Federal documentation would interfere with "titling" a boat with the state. It doesn't not interfere with "registering" a boat with the state.

And why doesn't he just use the Coast Guard Bill of Sale Document (CG - 1340) to sell you the boat, and then you can redocument it, or undocument it, or whatever you want.

Either the seller is ignorant, or there is a problem with the title he isn't telling you about.

Small claims court is probably the best place to go to get your deposit back if this can't be worked out, but I'm not familiar with New York law."

You are right that's exactly what i think. There is something wrong with the title or may the boat is document under previous owner. Who knows! The seller wanted a deposit of $2000 just o take the boat out for a test ride!! Since I was serious about buying the boat. I didn't hesitate to give him the deposit. He ask for $2000 but I only gave him $1000.

https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/boa/d/garnerville-1988-silverton/6981022896.html
 
AKDoug said:
In Alaska, new last season, even though a vessel is Documented it must also have State registration numbers and decal. I was boarded for inspection in Seward this last August and they informed me of the new regulation but didn't cite me for not having State registration. I am assuming the State thought they were losing revenue by allowing Documentation only...
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Michigan registers boats because they want the money. They give you the year decal that must be displayed and they ASSIGN a MC number. I highlight assign because it gets assigned but in can not be displayed. The Michigan system automatically assigns the MC number and it cannot be overridden. But the state number in any state can’t be displayed on a documented vessel. Just because one is assigned does not mean you have to stick it on the boat. I would ask to see the “regulation” that requires you to display the state number. I suspect it is an over enthusiastic LE officer that told you that.
 
Am I the only one that thinks this may be a case of the new buyer getting cold feet?


This entire thing doesn't sound right, if the seller provides the new buyer with a copy of the current document.. and it proves the boat is not security on a bank loan.. and the buyer and seller execute a USCG bill of sale who cares if it takes 3 weeks?.. the buyer has the bill of sale, he can then re document the boat or state register it. And he can insure it and use it.

The boat appears to be in very clean shape the owner obviously took pride in it.. unless its a scam and the "seller" isn't the actual owner.
Last .. but worth a mention we are talking about a sub $14k boat


HOLLYWOOD
 
hollywood8118 said:
Am I the only one that thinks this may be a case of the new buyer getting cold feet?


This entire thing doesn't sound right, if the seller provides the new buyer with a copy of the current document.. and it proves the boat is not security on a bank loan.. and the buyer and seller execute a USCG bill of sale who cares if it takes 3 weeks?.. the buyer has the bill of sale, he can then re document the boat or state register it. And he can insure it and use it.

The boat appears to be in very clean shape the owner obviously took pride in it.. unless its a scam and the "seller" isn't the actual owner.
Last .. but worth a mention we are talking about a sub $14k boat


HOLLYWOOD
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Yup....agreed.
 
BruceK said:
No,you are not.
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We do not know the time frame. How long did the seller remove the boat from the market? Can the seller document other interested parties while this buyer was making a decision?

I hate to say this but, unless the buyer has a valid reason for backing out of the sale, ie undisclosed damage to the boat or failed the survey or or, the seller is under no obligation to return the deposit.
I agree, he may be a first time buyer and didn't understand the process.
 
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The only thing standing in the way of completing the deal is the buyer's ignorance of the process. Pay the money, get the signed COD, now it's yours. Document it, undocument it, register it, title it - do whatever you want with it. You own it.

If the title isn't clear, $25 sent to the CG will tell you who actually owns it.

Or, he got cold feet.....
 
lias said:
It's a simple contract saying that, I'm giving him a $1000 deposit and if everything goes well then I'll by the boat. That's pretty much. The thing that made me change my mind is the fact that I won't be able to regiester the boat in NY untill the boat gets undocumented! I didn't file right about it.

He could have done this before hand to make things easier. I don't want to endup with a boat that I won't be able to use it!

I've filed a complaint with consumer protection agency in the county where the boat is located. Let's see what happens. I'm also thinking file a case against the seller in small claims court.

Thanks,
Lias
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I think this is just you and him not fully understanding the documentation/registration process for boats.


Note that as a seller I would not undocument the boat until closing because if the sale fell through, I would be left with an undocumented boat that I have to re-document.


If this was the only reason you backed out, I'd be keeping the $1000 too as a seller, or maybe refunding half of it.
 
twistedtree said:
I think this is just you and him not fully understanding the documentation/registration process for boats.


Note that as a seller I would not undocument the boat until closing because if the sale fell through, I would be left with an undocumented boat that I have to re-document.


If this was the only reason you backed out, I'd be keeping the $1000 too as a seller, or maybe refunding half of it.
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Agree w all similar comments and the point I don't think has been mentioned...
I believe that if the seller undocumented he would need to register and title in the state to be able to use it and show clear title for transfer. That process takes more time and $ and doesn't make any sense.
All aspects of closing a deal should take place in "reasonable" time and a couple weeks is not unreasonable.
Seller needs to realize it's like buying a house and that doesn't happen overnight.
 
Comodave said:
Michigan registers boats because they want the money.
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I'm pretty sure that's the only reason that every state requiring it does it for!

Because, it pretty much serves no useful purpose other than that! :D
 
OP wants to register boat in NY. Documentation matrix located at https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/boats.pdf.

OP needs notarized bill of sale and notarized Certificate of Documentation in order to transfer title. Suspect OP is not an experienced buyer and seller is being a real jerk.
Sounds like a typical Craigslist transaction.
 
Don't think we have heard the sellers side of the story.... so how do we know how he/she is acting?
 
psneeld said:
Don't think we have heard the sellers side of the story.... so how do we know how he/she is acting?
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Boat is still for sale on Craigslist so seller can't claim he lost any money by taking it off the market. Why would seller refuse to return deposit to an obviously inexperienced buyer. Craigslist transactions are usually cash and don't involve lengthy contracts full of escape clauses. It only works if both parties approach the transaction with trust and respect. One party isn't.
 
Until proven guilty..... has a nice ring to it....
 
SoWhat said:
Boat is still for sale on Craigslist so seller can't claim he lost any money by taking it off the market. Why would seller refuse to return deposit to an obviously inexperienced buyer. Craigslist transactions are usually cash and don't involve lengthy contracts full of escape clauses. It only works if both parties approach the transaction with trust and respect. One party isn't.
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Of course the seller can claim he lost a sale because the boat was off the market. We don’t know if some one would have bought the boat but bought a different boat because they thought this one had sold.
 
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