SF Bay Area Questions

[Dswizzler]

Top of the day to you,

Two questions,

Can any one recomend a good Prop shop in the area ? I've have a spare set of props that I need to have repaired. These are 4 blade cuped props about 28in diameter.

Second question attempts to settle a disccusion I'm currently in, if I wanted to take a boat out the SF Gate into rougher water, would I


A. Go South to Santa Cruz or
B. He out NW to the Fallons the east to Tomalis Bay
C. Just go play in the Potato Patch for a bit and come back in

for a run to test out the boat, it's equipment and how well the crew handles rougher water.

With limited coastal experience, we are attempting to one gain some sea legs and see how we do with the boat. Also wondering if it would be a good idea to have an experienced (ie. paid for) Captain on board for the first trip out the Gate?


Figured I could get some good advice from this lot... Looking for answers so don't be shy

 

[FlyWright]

Mark,

I had my props tuned at the Sacramento Prop Scan shop. The name of the shop is Thomas Marine Propeller. They did a very good job at a fair price. No more vibrations and I picked up 0.3-0.4 knot (approx 5%) at cruise power settings.

Here's a link to a previous discussion on this subject.
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/prop-repair-6116.html

I have no experience outside the gate, so I'll leave that one to others.

 

[Baggiolini]

Mine were done by a shop in Alameda....and I can't find the name.

No experience going north, I've done the run to Monterey many times and had all kinds of weather from miserable to perfect. A run around the Farallons can be exciting without the fuel burn.

 

[markpierce]

My only out-of-Golden-Gate small-boat experiences were on my Dad's 28.5-foot sloop during the 1960s. The voyages went to the lightship (now a buoy) twelve miles outside the gate. Always became seasick after passing through/around Potato Patch shoal.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Top of the day to you,

Two questions,

Can any one recomend a good Prop shop in the area ? I've have a spare set of props that I need to have repaired. These are 4 blade cuped props about 28in diameter.

Second question attempts to settle a disccusion I'm currently in, if I wanted to take a boat out the SF Gate into rougher water, would I


A. Go South to Santa Cruz or
B. He out NW to the Fallons the east to Tomalis Bay
C. Just go play in the Potato Patch for a bit and come back in

for a run to test out the boat, it's equipment and how well the crew handles rougher water.

With limited coastal experience, we are attempting to one gain some sea legs and see how we do with the boat. Also wondering if it would be a good idea to have an experienced (ie. paid for) Captain on board for the first trip out the Gate?


Figured I could get some good advice from this lot... Looking for answers so don't be shy

Re the props, no experience there.

Re #2, Mark is looking for a pal to do trip #2 with. Matt and I did several seasons of ocean racing (Matt several more seasons than I) prior to coming over to the dark side and you could not pay us enough to do #2 or #3. Really, I read those and thought you must be joking. #1 all the way, or Half Moon Bay and continue on if you so chose?

re having a pro on board, just how bad of conditions are you planning to head out in??? why not make the first trip in GOOD conditions and see how it goes? If you do decide to go out with a pro, I can recommend someone (if you don't have someone lined up already).

HAVE FUN!

 

[markpierce]

... why not make the first trip in GOOD conditions and see how it goes?

Yes, go when wind and sea/tide conditions are benign and not when the race committee selects a date. Autumn often has good days.

 

[markpierce]

On second thought, Mark, a trip on a large boat such as yours should be a breeze.

 

[CPseudonym]

Pretty decent free anchorage in front of the Boardwalk in Santa Cruz. The muni wharf has 2 dinghy landings that should be closed for the season until March or April. Call to confirm.

 

[Dswizzler]

Thanks Mark, Jennifer, I've put over a 100 hours on the boat in Delta and Bay, Pretty sure on smooth water, the ride will be fine, most boats ride great on glass, but before I plan the next ten years cruising, I'd like to see how this boat and crew handle the water. I took a 38FT from Tampa thur the Keys and up to Annaplois all in pretty nice water, would like to see how we both handle something abit rougher.

Cindy seems to think if we go north or south we'll hit rough water, I'm thinking that is not the case. NW towards the Fallons I'd think would be much rougher. But just a guess by me, having never been there by smaller boat. I'm not sure 2 WestPac's CV-43 counts.

 

[caltexflanc]

My old stomping grounds. Many trips out the Gate, power and sail. A quick synopsis:

First, this is typically much "bigger" water than what you encountered on the east coast. It can be smooth and it can be horrid. Mind the forecasts. Another guy and I (he being a great seaman) took a little Bayliner 24 all the way to Eureka one beautiful week. After waiting 6 weeks for perfect conditions, we were ready to put it on a trailer like sane people do and then the sea gods cooperated. The biggest boat can seem inconsequential when things are rough.

1) The trip out by the Farallons will usually be the roughest. But it is pretty cool if not a little eerie out there.

2) Forget about "playing around" in the Potato Patch, particulary on the ebb and especially ebb against a west wind. This pretty much applies to going out the Gate, period.

3) The so-called "South Channel", as shown on charts, forget that completely. People have dies screwing around with 1, 2, and 3. See also 4. People have died fooling around out here.

4) Tomales Bay is a very dicey entrance. You must call the CG for advice before attempting to enter, no matter what. Once in there it is very nice, but mind the depths. Very nice place to spend a weekend on the hook.

5) Drakes Bay is a good newbie trip and a pretty place to anchor out. Mind your charts and sea conditions and you can use Bonita Channel, or go out for your Farallons look see thence to Drakes. Make sure you have a real set on the anchor, you can be merely hooked on kelp, in which case you will be pulling it off the chain and anchor for an hour when departing.

6) On a nice day, or once you have your sea legs so to speak, Bodega Bay is a nice destination.

7) Another good newbie trip (better than Bodega in that regard) is Pillar Point aka Half Moon Bay. Stay in the marina and enjoy the shoreside attractions or anchor out inside the break water and do the same.

8) The anchorage at Santa Cruz is nice IF there is not a swell, then it is not so swell, which is more typical. If so, the harbor marina is nice if they have a place for you.

9) Monterey, great destination once you have your confidence. Santa Cruz too, for that matter.

 

[markpierce]

Tomales Bay looks nice, once one gets there. (I've only done it by automobile.)

Boats on moorings offshore from Marshall:

 

[av8r]

I had a set of props repaired and balanced several years ago by Alameda Propeller at Grand Marina. I liked the customer service and how smoothly they ran, and I liked the price. Current name seems to be Alameda Machine Shop, 510-522-7899.
When I was first down in the Bay area I wandered outside the Gate and turned into the Potato Patch without realizing how bad it can be even on a nice day. I found myself in tall and steep seas, but at least I had the speed capability to turn and run with the swells. I'd agree with Pineapple Girl.

 

[markpierce]

2) Forget about "playing around" in the Potato Patch, particulary on the ebb and especially ebb against a west wind. This pretty much applies to going out the Gate, period.

3) The so-called "South Channel", as shown on charts, forget that completely. People have dies screwing around with 1, 2, and 3. See also 4. People have died fooling around out here.

My boat builder survived after his sailboat broke it's back transiting South Channel. He was able to swim ashore; his fellow sailor wasn't so lucky.

While one can easily lose his "potatoes" in their moniker's shoal, it can be a place to practice, if desired.

 

[markpierce]

Forget about "playing around" in the Potato Patch, ...

It's a wonder how I survived those voyages balancing on the foredeck a half-dozen times without lifelines, PFD, or jacklines; wrestling the spinnaker pole for the downhill run from the lightship.

Parents weren't so protective a half-century ago.

 

[Dswizzler]

Thanks for all the comments, I use the term playing around very loosely, realizing there is never playing when moving boat, especially in open unfamiliar waters.We do make safety of first concern, wearing inflatable life jackets, whenever we are outside the boat underway, having communications devices fully charged and repeating commands back and forth, to ensure our messages are well recieved. I suspect out steps out the gate will be baby steps and not one long reach, but I see that as a milestone in where we want to be with the next 24 months.

We just finished out USPS Piloting course and are now week 3 into the advanced Piloting course with the local Power squadron.

Found it interesting that no one commented on taking out a hired captain , perhaps if the steps are small enough, none is required. We are looking to move the boat closer to the gate after all the America's Cup traffic leaves. So if anyone knows a of good marina with affordable liveaboards rates in Alameda or surrounding area let me know. While I can work from the boat, Cindy still needs to commute to Martinez 5 days a week.

Thanks for the input,

 

[caltexflanc]

Thanks for all the comments, I use the term playing around very loosely, realizing there is never playing when moving boat, especially in open unfamiliar waters.We do make safety of first concern, wearing inflatable life jackets, whenever we are outside the boat underway, having communications devices fully charged and repeating commands back and forth, to ensure our messages are well recieved. I suspect out steps out the gate will be baby steps and not one long reach, but I see that as a milestone in where we want to be with the next 24 months.

We just finished out USPS Piloting course and are now week 3 into the advanced Piloting course with the local Power squadron.

Found it interesting that no one commented on taking out a hired captain , perhaps if the steps are small enough, none is required. We are looking to move the boat closer to the gate after all the America's Cup traffic leaves. So if anyone knows a of good marina with affordable liveaboards rates in Alameda or surrounding area let me know. While I can work from the boat, Cindy still needs to commute to Martinez 5 days a week.

Thanks for the input,

I think hiring a captain is a great idea. Club Nautique in Alameda has a great staff of independent captains as instructors. Give them a call and see what they can do for you or refer you to. If David Scott still works with them, he knows the outside the gate drill in a power boat extremely well. Great guy, taught me a lot.
The club's number is 510-865-9759

Finding a liveaboard slip on the Bay proper has always been difficult, "affordable" or not. Your boat's size is another limiting factor. You are going to have to work the marinas one by one.

 

[caltexflanc]

It's a wonder how I survived those voyages balancing on the foredeck a half-dozen times without lifelines, PFD, or jacklines; wrestling the spinnaker pole for the downhill run from the lightship.

Parents weren't so protective a half-century ago.

Your parents, maybe. Not that they would have had an exclusive on bad ideas at the time. Maybe they were trying to tell you something?

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Live aboard slips in the bay are few and far between, especially with Pete's harbor now closed. West Point marina in redwood city maybe, but that's a haul from Martinez.

Going through the main bay on a windy afternoon on an ebb tide could provide an interesting test?!?

 

[caltexflanc]

Here's a guy taking an eventful cruise along beach side of the South Channel (foul language in audio):

Cigar Boat jumps huge wave gets 20ft of air - YouTube

 

[Monterey10]

Going out the "Gate"

You choose the time, tide, swell, Fog, and wind conditions before going out the SF Bar. You check the web to see how many ships are coming in before going out the channel.

Generally, the most dangerous times are on a strong outgoing tide facing a strong incoming wind. You will get 12' standing waves that will wreck you. This is true with the Gate and the Shallow San Pablo bay.

Mike Giraudo has the best articles on this. He posts them on the Coastsidefishingclub.com web site under "Tutorials"

General
The San Francisco Bar – Mike Giraudo 3/25/2004
Navigating Pillar Point Harbor – Mike Giraudo 2/4/2009
Piloting in limited Visibility – Mike Giraudo 3/12/2009

 

[fstbttms]

I had a set of props repaired and balanced several years ago by Alameda Propeller at Grand Marina. I liked the customer service and how smoothly they ran, and I liked the price. Current name seems to be Alameda Machine Shop, 510-522-7899.

Alameda Propeller is long out of business and the Alameda Machine Shop does not do prop work, to my knowledge.

Here's where to take your props in the Bay Area (also in Alameda)-

PROPELLERS & SHAFTING - Welcome to Bay Ship & Yacht Co.

 

[Art]

Just outside GGB, When it's real mellow!

 

[FlyWright]

You look worried, Art!!

 

[Art]

You look worried, Art!!

Good facial read, FW. I was not really worried – but becoming quite concerned. That was when the famous Maltese Falcon entered the bay. I was looking out for novice boat pilots who did not fully understand handling complications within that close a quarters.

Minutes after that pict I accelerated to WOT, 21 knots and peeled off to starboard. Once well outside the novices in the fray I slowed down to watch the Falcon’s square rigged masts skin under GGB.

 

[Dswizzler]

All part of the adventure, looking for to it in the near future, I've ben told we'll be taking the walk before you run approach, going ouit in some nice weather for an easy cruise, before tackling anything to challenging.

What are some of the better web pages to follow before going out for forcast ?

 

[Arctic Traveller]

Thanks for all the comments, I use the term playing around very loosely, realizing there is never playing when moving boat, especially in open unfamiliar waters.

When I first read your post, I thought you were kidding, but clearly your not. I have almost 1200hrs outside the gate, and believe me, it's NO place to fool around. I see you just finished the USPS piloting course, a great start, but really a beginners course. Prior to heading out the first time, you need to do a lot of homework. The potato patch can be flat as a mill pond when you go out, and two hours later it can be a witches cauldron of steep breaking waves. The so called South channel is a death trap for those who are unaware of it's pitfalls. The main ship channel is in deep water and tends to have the smoothest waters in most states of the tide, but I've seen navy destroyers fighting their way in through the channel too.

Should you find yourself outside when the weather deteriorates, resist the temptation to take a short cut through the North or South channels, and go all the way to the sea bouy before heading in. It may take longer, but it's MUCH safer. Actually, I'd avoid the South channel at all costs.

Long before you venture out, drive up to the Marin Headlands, and spend a lot of time watching the water from the land. Be sure to observe several tide changes. You will see how the seas behave during the different water flow directions and in different parts of the entrance. If you go on a day with a good storm and an Ebb tide, you will see why you never want to be there on a day like that. You would also do well to visit the Army Corps Bay model in Sausalito to get an idea how the tides and currents interplay. My general rule was if the combination of swells and wind waves added up to over 10 feet, I didn't go. Actually many times when it was less, I went out, took a look, turned around and went to breakfast instead. It's just too dangerous to fool around with. Don't forget the fog either. Are you comfortable navigating in "0" visibility? (it can happen quickly) If not, be sure to go on a day where fog is not predicted; but practice with your radar, plotter, and depth sounder every time you go out.

Don't misunderstand me, heading out into the ocean is great, it set the stage for the remainder of my life, and I love it, but it's no place to fool around and learn at the school of hard knocks. You only have to be wrong once. Be sure to monitor the weather forecast as much as a week in advance to get a feel for the trend, not just the days forecast. Make sure your boat is in top shape too. Are your fuel tanks clean? You might have been boating in the delta for years with out a problem, but one trip into the ocean can mix up all the junk at the bottom of the tank and quickly clog your filters leaving you dead in the water. Do you carry spares? Do you know how to bleed your engine's fuel system (in a rolling seaway)?

"We do make safety of first concern, wearing inflatable life jackets, whenever we are outside the boat underway, having communications devices fully charged and repeating commands back and forth, to ensure our messages are well recieved."

This quote makes me think your main plan if things go wrong is to call for help. While calling the C/G should be your first action if you get in trouble, you need to do everything in your power to avoid getting in trouble in the first place. Do you have a life raft, EPIRB, survival suit for all aboard, and current flares? Have you run abandon ship drills, fire drills, MOB drills?

Heading out the gate is a wonderful experience and it's not to be missed, but don't go until you have done a lot of homework and research, the weather looks good and the boat is in top condition.

Going out with a seasoned skipper the first few times would be a great idea too. Above all, enjoy the experience and have a safe time..........Arctic Traveller

Oh Yea, Bay Ship is the place to go for prop work, tell Jeff I said Hi. (I worked there for years)

 

[Art]

Arctic Traveller - Very good explanation to help a beginner understand the perils of SF gate and to refresh those experienced. Much of what you mention should be adhered to in most locations.