shaft tube leak ...HELP!!

[gabilgerat]

Hi Yall, new here, I work on yachts but have little experience in trawlers, I have a MT that has had a leak around the stuffing box flange where it mounts to the stringer., I need some help on how to go about repairing this leak. first is the plate on the stuffing box made to the shaft tube? and if so how do I get the plate off, some one has attempted to repair/seal it with resin from the inside but it didn't work, now I have to grind this resin off just to get to the plate, I have the shaft out and stuffing box hose off and can see where the shaft has rubbed on the lower edge of the hose flange , I can look down the tube and don't see any cracks or damage to the tube
,any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[psneeld]

A picture would help...

But I am guessing that if a flat plate, lag bolted into a glass vertical, then yes there is a good chance after the lag bolts come out, that it has to unscrew from a bronze, stainless or fiberglass tube.

That tube is glassed through the bottom to where the cutless bearing carrier is lagged and screwed on to the hull just in front of the prop.

 

[gabilgerat]

Yes its a rectangle bronze plate but its not lag bolted, it has 4 ss studs made into the stringer.with nuts n washers , the cutlass bearing housing on the underside has 2 ss studs and nuts n washers too,

 

[gabilgerat]

Ill get some pics today, leak isn't bad but slow n stead, the owner is going to list it for sale I wants it repaired

 

[psneeld]

Yes its a rectangle bronze plate but its not lag bolted, it has 4 ss studs made into the stringer.with nuts n washers , the cutlass bearing housing on the underside has 2 ss studs and nuts n washers too,

Ok...but those studs could be just threaded on one end and lag screw on the other into the glass...either way, they have to come out before you can do much.

You can unbolt everything and see if you can pry the stuffing box flange off, but I will bet money you will have to get the studs out and twist it out.

 

[gabilgerat]

Ok...but those studs could be just threaded on one end and lag screw on the other into the glass...either way, they have to come out before you can do much.

You can unbolt everything and see if you can pry the stuffing box flange off, but I will bet money you will have to get the studs out and twist it out.

tried the pryin thing, no dice . and theres not enough room to turn the whole flange to unscrew it, its too close the bottom of the bilge. would have to unscrew the whole tube from cutlass bearing flange and try to get the tube out but if its glassed in I doubt that will be possible. already wish I hadent taken this job

 

[rwidman]

Ok...but those studs could be just threaded on one end and lag screw on the other .

That's a "hanger bolt". To remove it, put two nuts on the threaded end, jam them together so they won't move and back them out with a wrench.

If that's what they are.

 

[DHeckrotte]

Been there, done that on a sailboat. Happily the bronze cast fitting was in two-pieces with throughbolts. It came out readily with only a little encouragement from blocks of wood and a small sledge, and a good thing, too; I took the fitting to a shop and had them press out and replace the cutless.

 

[Ski in NC]

Slide a piece of prop shaft through the shaft line, then put a thick washer in the packing gland. Push shaft up til it butts up against the washer. Then beat on the end of the prop shaft that sticks out of the cutlass brg outside the boat. This should push the packing gland forward.

 

[rwidman]

I know I would be more than a little upset if I hired a "professional" to fix my boat and then found out he didn't know how to do the work and had to ask on a web forum.


To the OP: I think you have two choices here:


1. Admit to the boat owner that you can't handle the repair and suggest that he find someone else to do it.


2. Find a pro in your area who does know how to do the work and pay him to help you do it.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I know I would be more than a little upset if I hired a "professional" to fix my boat and then found out he didn't know how to do the work and had to ask on a web forum.


To the OP: I think you have two choices here:


1. Admit to the boat owner that you can't handle the repair and suggest that he find someone else to do it.


2. Find a pro in your area who does know how to do the work and pay him to help you do it.

I agree.

As they say, "a man needs to know his limitations ".

 

[CPseudonym]

Reminds me of the laborer that worked for an electrical contractor for 6 months and picked up a side job re-wiring a neighbors house. Fire department 2 weeks after that said the cause of the fire was electrical. Nobody was home at the time fortunately.

 

[gabilgerat]

Believe it or not Ive been working on yachts for over 38 years, There is no one in the north Georgia area that knows any thing about trawlers. No One. I was hired because my knowledge of inboard boats in general and My exceptional reputation for giving good service at a reasonable price and backing my work ,now I admit I don't know every thing there is to know about Trawlers so I joined this forum to gain some insight on how the shaft tube is installed on a Marine Trader. there is no information on the web at all and as a fellow boater I thought id join up here and pick yalls brains.. ..
I have the shaft out and now know why it was leaking. the shaft was rubbing on the bottom of the flange for the packing tube and completely wore it out, now I have to figure out a way to replace it . any tips or suggestions would be appreciated

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Bang it out from behind.

You need to prepare the boat owner for the fact that this looks like it is going to get expensive real quick.

Everything has to be realigned properly.

By the way, what's so different about trawlers compared to "yachts"?

 

[CPseudonym]

Apologies for the ASSumption on my part. Makes MUCH more sense to me now.

Totally agree with Bill above, warn them to limber up their wallet because this ain't gonna be cheap.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Of course you could perhaps sleeve the tube and use a packing gland that uses a larger diameter hose. Or build up the old tube with Belzona and reshape it.

Then correct the alignment.

 

[Deckape]

This is why I do my own repairs.! Sorry?

 

[psneeld]

It seems common to me for help at marinas to not have experience with certain pieces and parts of certain boats.

I have been with some of the best shipwrights from my area thar are constantly on their Bluetooth headsets being talked through maintenance items...and have swapped experiences with guys that are way beyond me and still had many questions about certain systems.

There are yacht yards that have probably seen and done it all, but the other 99 percent of marinas struggle with many of the basics that get bantered back and forth here regularly.

You can just take the studs out, cut the flange off and see if what is left of the tube will screw off. If not, cut that off too and see how much clearance you will need underneath to screw a new one on.

Dig that out, screw the new one on and rebuild underneath.

With a good cutting tool, could go pretty quick.

 

[Ski in NC]

What is aft of that gland? Some trawlers that portion of the keel is a free flood zone. Some have tubes of some material. Would like to know what is between the gland and the cutlass. If they are no way attached, which they should not be, beating it out with a piece of shaft would be the next step. Might use a heat gun to warm up any adhesive.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Cut those studs off if you cant wedge or lever the flange off of them inside the boat, if necessary cut behind the flange to cut the tube or whats left of it. The tube may be shot anyway. Its possible the stern bearing for the cutlass is screwed onto the tube on the outside. If so do as above and back out the hanger bolts and see if the stern bearing will either back out or be spun off. You might be able to worry the tube out the back way but likely its rusted solid inside or disintegrating. If it is its gotta come out which will require lots of glass work. Thing is, you got to get that inside flange off for replacement. One way or another so you can assess what else will be needed. Its the proverbial can of worms. BTW, a shipwright is a man who works with wood on a boat. Mechanics, machinists, glass men, electricians or fitters are not shipwrights. In a proper boatyard the work you are attempting to do is the work of an outside machinist. This is their bailiwick.

 

[boatpoker]

Take the flange off, patch up the worn through part with bondo and take it to the closest foundry and have a new one sand cast in bronze. Shouldn't cost more than about $30. It'll come out a little rough but only an hours work to dress it.

 

[stone beach]

.....
I have the shaft out and now know why it was leaking. the shaft was rubbing on the bottom of the flange for the packing tube and completely wore it out, now I have to figure out a way to replace it . any tips or suggestions would be appreciated

I would not expect the "flanged packing tube" (fpt) to be connected to anything behind it. I guess the fpt is sat in caulk /adhesive (like 5200). If you heat the fpt flange it should release from the caulk and you should be able to get a lever behind it.
To do this does not require removal of the studs but getting them out of the way would make things easier. I would expect these to be hanger bolts & you should be able to screw them out with two locked nuts.
I wouldnt cut anything at this stage, it wont help much.
You then need a replacement, sourcing as explained by others

 

[sunchaser]

This is an interesting discussion. Once the boat is patched up, ladled with bondo and 5200 and readied for sale, will there be full disclosure for the new owner?

78 Puget used a term a few threads ago, "proper boatyard" - so when does one go there?

 

[psneeld]

I would hesitate cutting off the studs until every other try has been exhausted....having something to heat and twist and bang on is preferable to nothing.

If the replacement part going in will use holes sufficiently apart, then fine, use them or cut them off.

I looked at doing this job on my boat in order to get the log out if the keel. After 6 months of research and calling all over the country for advice. The vast majority of yards and individuals that did it, said either, they would never do it again or resulted in tearing the majority of the inside over the keel out and cutting large sections of the keel away on the exterior to access the log and free it up.

But universally they all described both ends, the stuffing box flange and the bearing carrier being screwed on to the shaft log.

To just get the packing gland bulkhead plate off isn't usually a huge job. Many times after getting the hanger bolts out, it will unscrew from the log without much fuss. Now if there is no clearance, cut the old one up and either modify the new or dig a trench so the new can twist on. Last resort fo me, knowing 20 more years out of my boat might be it......get rid of the threads and slip/epoxy fit the new one so it can just be pushed on.

Because pleasure boating radically changed in the last 50 years or so.....this is similar to the shipwrights in my neck of the woods.

Home - Port Townsend Shipwrights Coop


About Port Townsend Shipwrights Co-Op

The talented crew of the Port Townsend Shipwrights Co-Op is well-known for their traditional woodworking skills: from fine interior joinery on sail and motor yachts to major structural restoration on commercial fishing vessels. Their attention to detail and depth of knowledge insures your modern or classic boat will leave the shop in superior condition. PTSC also specializes in new construction, metal fabrication and fiberglass. Design and installation of Electrical – marine electronics and navigation systems, Mechanical – engines, propulsion, fuel and drive, Systems – heating, cooling, plumbing, steering, refrigeration and hydraulics, and Spars and Rigging.

 

[sdowney717]

I braze welded new metal onto my old shaft logs where the ss shaft had worn them down over the prior decades.
I talked to the welding supply shops and they all told me the white flux coated brazing rods are bronze not brass. Anyway they have held up ok for the last 10 years and will next haul inspect my brazing job I did.

After I braze filled th worn areas, I used a stone and ground back to smooth round shape.
They had worn down to about 1/16 to 1/8 left thickness of metal, from about 5/16 when new.

 

[boatpoker]

This is an interesting discussion. Once the boat is patched up, ladled with bondo and 5200 and readied for sale, will there be full disclosure for the new owner?

78 Puget used a term a few threads ago, "proper boatyard" - so when does one go there?

You clearly don't understand .... the bondo is used to patch up the old part to it's original shape then iy is used as a pattern (mold) to sand cast a new part. It's quite simple, google it on youtube.

 

[Donsan]

How long would the shaft need to be misaligned to wear down that much?

 

[gabilgerat]

dang, Im liking Capt Bills idea of just using Bezlona and rebuilding it

 

[sunchaser]

You clearly don't understand .... the bondo is used to patch up the old part to it's original shape then iy is used as a pattern (mold) to sand cast a new part. It's quite simple, google it on youtube.

Actually I do understand. I was being a bit snarky given the conflicting advice on how to tackle this job. With the boat being readied for sale the job has been thrust into the hands of a seemingly decent curious guy. I'd guess he'll make some progress provided the owner doesn't balk on hours.

BTW, how is your shaft seal job progressing?

 

[Capt.Bill11]

You clearly don't understand .... the bondo is used to patch up the old part to it's original shape then iy is used as a pattern (mold) to sand cast a new part. It's quite simple, google it on youtube.

But you're not getting it done for $30.