shaft tube leak ...HELP!!

[rwidman]

Believe it or not Ive been working on yachts for over 38 years, There is no one in the north Georgia area that knows any thing about trawlers. No One. I was hired because my knowledge of inboard boats in general and My exceptional reputation for giving good service at a reasonable price and backing my work ,now I admit I don't know every thing there is to know about Trawlers so I joined this forum to gain some insight on how the shaft tube is installed on a Marine Trader. there is no information on the web at all and as a fellow boater I thought id join up here and pick yalls brains.. ..
I have the shaft out and now know why it was leaking. the shaft was rubbing on the bottom of the flange for the packing tube and completely wore it out, now I have to figure out a way to replace it . any tips or suggestions would be appreciated

My intent was not to insult you but every one of us has our limits. I was the "go to" guy at work but there were a few times when I realized that I needed help from outside. We are all human.

I'm still surprised that with your many years of experience, you would turn to a trawler forum for advice. Many of us do not do this kind of work and much of the advice you will receive here is questionable.

I would think you would have contacts in the business or at least a place on the Internet where professional boat people swap advice.

 

[78puget-trawler]

I would hesitate cutting off the studs until every other try has been exhausted....having something to heat and twist and bang on is preferable to nothing.

If the replacement part going in will use holes sufficiently apart, then fine, use them or cut them off.

I looked at doing this job on my boat in order to get the log out if the keel. After 6 months of research and calling all over the country for advice. The vast majority of yards and individuals that did it, said either, they would never do it again or resulted in tearing the majority of the inside over the keel out and cutting large sections of the keel away on the exterior to access the log and free it up.

But universally they all described both ends, the stuffing box flange and the bearing carrier being screwed on to the shaft log.

To just get the packing gland bulkhead plate off isn't usually a huge job. Many times after getting the hanger bolts out, it will unscrew from the log without much fuss. Now if there is no clearance, cut the old one up and either modify the new or dig a trench so the new can twist on. Last resort fo me, knowing 20 more years out of my boat might be it......get rid of the threads and slip/epoxy fit the new one so it can just be pushed on.

Because pleasure boating radically changed in the last 50 years or so.....this is similar to the shipwrights in my neck of the woods.

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The talented crew of the Port Townsend Shipwrights Co-Op is well-known for their traditional woodworking skills: from fine interior joinery on sail and motor yachts to major structural restoration on commercial fishing vessels. Their attention to detail and depth of knowledge insures your modern or classic boat will leave the shop in superior condition. PTSC also specializes in new construction, metal fabrication and fiberglass. Design and installation of Electrical – marine electronics and navigation systems, Mechanical – engines, propulsion, fuel and drive, Systems – heating, cooling, plumbing, steering, refrigeration and hydraulics, and Spars and Rigging.

I agree on the cutting of things except as a last resort, absolutely. What may end up happening here is if the tube is a mess it may entail a lot of unforeseen work to repair that. Of course do everything possible to get the flange off in one pc. Eric on Willy I believe ran into this problem some time ago with a bad tube. Much labor involved.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Seeing how the shaft tube is worn out, would be interesting to see how is the shaft itself.

 

[sdowney717]

Seeing how the shaft tube is worn out, would be interesting to see how is the shaft itself.

Bronze is softer than SS shafts. My ss shafts showed no wear where they rubbed the shaft log.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Bronze is softer than SS shafts. My ss shafts showed no wear where they rubbed the shaft log.

+1 ^

 

[Jbear]

I looked into replacing the shaft log when I purchased my boat. I went to a few yards here in the area. Every one of them said no. It's a hugely painful job. I will say when I have a question I ask on the forum as you may get many answers and using a discerning eye and based on previous experiences I've been able to tackle just about every job. Except upholstery. Freaking sewing stuff is near impossible for me!

 

[78puget-trawler]

Bronze is softer than SS shafts. My ss shafts showed no wear where they rubbed the shaft log.

He is talking about the shaft tube not the shaft log. The tube that surrounds the shaft from log to stern bearing. Likely its SS.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

He is talking about the shaft tube not the shaft log. The tube that surrounds the shaft from log to stern bearing. Likely its SS.

Based on the picture it appears to have only rubbed on the soft bronze.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Yes, but you cannot see the tube. Who knows what shape it is in?

 

[Jbear]

Flex in the shaft routinely can cause the shaft log to fail. When this happens your keel can fill with water from the damaged shaft log. I have spoken with several very reputable boatyard folk saying just live with it. Many of the older trawlers have this. Again, replacing the shaft log can easily outspend a large percentage of your boats value. It truly depends on what your boat is. You can definitely tear into your keel and replace the entire shaft log. But it's a lot of cash and time.

 

[Jbear]

To clarify, I am talking about the shaft tube between cutlass and stuffing box. Mine is fiberglass. I've spoken with guys first hand that drive one out using hammers and such. I think it took a week. Grrrrrrrr

 

[psneeld]

Typical, maybe even easier than some.

If I have laptop internet tonight, I will post photos of one TFers struggle.

Until there is a bigger issue, such as massive leakage into bilge spaces, many of us opted to not repair the Shaft log/tube.

Water working its way into the keel might be inevitable with no great way to tell from where,

 

[yo]

I think that psneeld is on the right track in post #24 I would try and drive the bolts back
into the stringer and I think that the brass plate can be unscrewed from the shaft log.
If you are worried about clearance to turn the plate the only thing under it is thin layer of fiber glass mating which covers the rock and cement in the keel . good luck

 

[bglad]

If it was mine and I had to cut the studs to get it off and the shaft tube was found to be compromised I think I would install a fiberglass pipe and do away with the bronze altogether. One might even be able to get the fiberglass to thread onto the old shaft tube with epoxy or other sealer to maintain its integrity then fiberglass it into the area of the so called stringer where bolts currently protrude. This all assumes there is adequate space to lengthen the log pipe a little to provide space to laminate it in place. First choice of course is to disassemble the existing hardware, repair or replace then reinstall...

 

[cappy208]

Gabilgerat: How have you made out? It seems from the pics you got into a big job. Any progress?

 

[Chris K]

Is this plate, perhaps a backing block? Looking at the pic it does not look forged to the extension. My cutlass bearing installed from the outside.

The backing plate might be threaded, though I doubt it. While I was at the job and the shaft is out---change the cutlass bearing--

 

[tsunami3]

Have a MT 34 that I have to lay up for winter. This past winter the skeg opened up from freezing. After reading your posts, just wondering (a) if the shaft tube is my issue (b) would drilling a hole in the bottom of the skeg and filling every spring alleviate my problem?
Appreciate any comments on this.

 

[Comodave]

Does the 34 have a hollow keel? If so, water can collect inside it and it will freeze. Can you access the top of the area from inside? If so, you can drill a small hole and use a dip stick to see if there is water in the keel or not. If there is water and you have the room to use a hole saw to make a hole large enough to insert a hose for a shop vac, you may be able to remove the water that way. I would rather not drill holes in the bottom if you can help it. However if you have to drill the bottom of the keel you might be able to install a drain like on small boats with a removable plug so you don't have to repair the hole and redrill each year.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr./Ms. t3. Welcome aboard. We had a 34' MT and the keel was filled with cement. If this is the case in your MT as well, I see little option, at this point, than to drill a hole and attempt to drain the keel prior to this year's freeze-up to prevent further damage. It's a bit late in the season, IMO, to start assessing and repairing leaky keels (whatever the reason). Just think, you will have the whole winter to look forward to your spring "to do" list.

I see 20cm of snow forecast for Calgary. It's coming, my friend...

 

[cappy208]

@ T3:

My boat has a concrete filled keel, and I am also concerned about water, freezing and damage.

My compromise when hauling out has been to put the boat bow down (in the three years I have owned her) and have a drain hole forward to keep the bilge dry. The concrete is aft. Thus the free bilge is fwd.

The only problem is the decks don't drain properly. I have to have her shrink wrapped promptly and keep new O Rings in the fuel fills on deck to keep the rain out until the shrinkwrap is on. (and to be prepared for shrinkwrap failure.)

I would doubt the shaft log is the problem. The bottom of the keel is where the water collects and freezes (expands)

As RTF commented; a bronze 1/2" drain plug installed would help keep the keel dry. BUT this would only be if the concrete has a free flowing limberhole from front to back.

 

[tsunami3]

Thanks for your input Comodave, RT Firefly and Cappy 208.
After reassessing my situation today I am unable to access the area from the bilge, cement and who knows what else i'm guessing.
So my experiment this winter will be to block it bow down and drill a hole in the forward part of the bilge, I shrink wrap so hopefully drainage will not be an issue.
I'll advise results of experiment in spring, hopefully all will be fine.

 

[Comodave]

Good luck, let us know what happens when you drill the hole.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Messrs. c208 and t3. Apologies for being so vague (post #49). What I was suggesting was:

Lay the hull up level or very slightly down at the stern and drill a hole (1/2" maybe) into the side of the keel below the stuffing box and allow any accumulated water to drain thus preventing (hopefully) any water staying in the keel and causing freeze damage over the winter. This is a preventative measure ONLY. Nothing to do with rectification of the original question (post#47). Hole can be readily filled before spring launch...

EDIT: Sorry Mr. t3. I guess that's what you originally asked, so yes.

While any one of the above suggestions may be the best fix, the rapidly approaching sub-zero, snow filled months are NOT the best time to be tearing apart the keel of your boat unless it is stored inside, preferably in a heated climate controlled building with a fully equipped shop (I wish...).

The mostly level lay-up should minimize those issues experienced by Mr. c208 regarding deck drainage.

 

[DHeckrotte]

I'd bet that a drain installed at the aft, lowest part of the keel would work as intended, even if the keel were concreted. Concrete shrinks as it cures and it does not stick to fiberglass. Water will weep, slowly to be sure, out the drain. Obviously install as low as possible.

I'm not an enthusiast of extra holes in the hull, particularly one like this typical drain which is held in by three measly little screws.

 

[Dave_E]

I have the same boat (I think), mine is an Eagle 36. The Title says 35... but I won't argue over a foot, (the TL is 38' from anchor tho the back of the swim platform). I have the EXACT same problem. I had a constant drip of 1 drip per second when we brought her home to La Conner (Shelter Bay), but has now stopped. I was told by other Taiwanese owners that their shaft logs were into the packing sleeve with only 2 threads. My crossmember is all soft and eaten away by the years of dripping I guess. Will be hauling out next spring for the repair. I will not go cruising knowing this condition exists. Please forward pictures as you can with your repair.

Dave

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
CORRECTION to post #53. "...below the stuffing box..." SHOULD read "below the cutlass bearing". Below the stuffing box would be too far forward. Mr. DH's description of the location is more appropriate. Sorry.

 

[bayview]

In addition to a drain hole at bottom of the keel a small vent hole i side the baaot at the top of the keel may aid drainage.

 

[mike66]

Same problem on my Albin 40. Developed a hairline crack at the skeg/keel junction just below the cutlass bearing. It would weep all winter, and was probably opened up by freezing. I tapped a 1/2" hole in the side of the keel near the bottom and let the water seep out there. Now it doesn't weep out the crack. I use a 1 1/2" stainless bolt and 4200 in the hole to plug it in the spring. Not sure what I drilled into, but three years and the threads are still grabbing the bolt. It's not torqued too tight though.

 

[C lectric]

Add the drain hole.
You could glass a bump of much thicker glass around the area to be drilled and where the drain fitting is to be mounted. Just make that bump several times the diameter of the drain fitting. That way the screws or machine screws, tapped holes, would have additional bite and security. If the threading in the glass wears then fill with thickened epoxy and something like minifibres for strength, and the retap the holes.

I don't have this problem but I might even use helicoils in the glass bump. Seal it well and the heli coils should last many years.
But either way the area would be strengthened and last a long time.

 

[dhmeissner]

Hi Yall, new here, I work on yachts but have little experience in trawlers, I have a MT that has had a leak around the stuffing box flange where it mounts to the stringer., I need some help on how to go about repairing this leak. first is the plate on the stuffing box made to the shaft tube? and if so how do I get the plate off, some one has attempted to repair/seal it with resin from the inside but it didn't work, now I have to grind this resin off just to get to the plate, I have the shaft out and stuffing box hose off and can see where the shaft has rubbed on the lower edge of the hose flange , I can look down the tube and don't see any cracks or damage to the tube
,any help would be greatly appreciated!

Here's what can happen. The shaft log rusted, and is worse where its closest to the stuffing box at the threads. So it leaks and rots out the bulkhead. It all has to be cut out and rebuilt by a qualified shipwright.