Should I buy or walk

[Derik]

I just spoke to the mechanic and the survey guy had me shooting an inferred temp sensor at the back of the engines instead of the front. The Mechanic said this would give a higher reading. He suggested a new impeller if in fact it was hot. The high temp alarm works and never went off.

The mechanic also said the high iron levels indicates the fluid is old and needs changed, he had no problems shifting it and it's smooth.. so now I am back in limbo.

 

[hollywood8118]

I just spoke to the mechanic and the survey guy had me shooting an inferred temp sensor at the back of the engines instead of the front. The Mechanic said this would give a higher reading. He suggested a new impeller if in fact it was hot. The high temp alarm works and never went off.

The mechanic also said the high iron levels indicates the fluid is old and needs changed, he had no problems shifting it and it's smooth.. so now I am back in limbo.

I think a reality check is in order,

Your looking at a 40'+ boat that is 30+ years old, it got warm after you ran it for 20+ minutes... it is probably a cheap (in boat terms) repair that is either a impeller or exchanger that is gunked up and needs 30 minutes of attention. Easy fixes and I would place them in normal maintenance items anyway.. not a fault".



So you did a 40 mile sea trial? If you didnt think the boat was ok within 15 minutes of going to cruise RPM your the most indecisive buyer in history or you really wanted a long boat ride


You appear to be picking the boat apart as though its 5 years old and
$ 400,000.00. You need to be willing to accept a LOT more compromises in a $50k boat.


I know this all sounds harsh but I believe you need to be a touch less critical of boats in the size/cost/age range that your shopping..



Old, less costly larger boats typically all have some issues.
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Max Simmons]

Maybe I missed it, but what transmissions are in it?

 

[Bigsfish]

The money you spent so far may be cheap if the boat does not prove out. I recently sold a boat that the buyer took an oil survey, they came back and being bad. I did not believe this could be true because they always tested fine. I told the buyer I would pay for another oil survey and he agreed. The mechanic misunderstood and changed the oil and ran the boat twenty hours and then tested the oil. This time it came back perfect and we closed. The second mechanic thought the first test was contaminated.

All this is a way of saying get the seller to pay for the oil change and the running of the boat and a new test. Then decide.

 

[Derik]

We ran from SD bay to Mission Bay because that's where the haul out was not so much for the "sea trial". The Mission Bay boat yard was some 800.00 dollars less and I thought it would be a good test.

It's a Borg Warner Transmission.

I am just thinking if I pay say 20,000 more for a boat this size it won't need so much done? I don't think this is unreasonable? I would prefer to buy a boat that has had all the maintenance done and is run on a regular basis than on that's been neglected. I am feeling like this one had been neglected.

 

[Bigsfish]

Even a new boat will need to have things done to fit you, however it may not cost you to do these various items.

 

[Donsan]

I am just thinking if I pay say 20,000 more for a boat this size it won't need so much done? I don't think this is unreasonable? I would prefer to buy a boat that has had all the maintenance done and is run on a regular basis than on that's been neglected. I am feeling like this one had been neglected.

Paying $20K more does not guarantee you a boat that doesn't need so much done. And worse, you could end up spending another $2K to find that out.

 

[Slow Motion]

a lot has been said here already and it all seems to be good info.... did you compare the surveyor report that you found to the one that you just had done? 1700 ppm, I essentially live in the trucking world, I do oil samples regularly, SO, how high is that number in the boat world? And last but not least, do the dogs come with it?

 

[Comodave]

I suspect that spending 20k more will not get you a boat that does not need any maintenance. Maybe another 100k will get you there. Think about what range of boat you are looking at. They are going to be 30 plus years old. They ALL will need some work, it just depends on what work they need. Do they need decks and stringers repaired or do they need some mechanical work? It is all a trade off. But buying a boat under 100k means it will almost certainly need some work. I would suggest you accept that or don’t buy any boat. Or increase your budget dramatically. Anyway good luck which ever way you go.

 

[sunchaser]

Derik
Two things.

The current owner should “fix” the engine which is heating up and when done pay for another sea trial himself.

Secondly, talk to the right transmission shop about the oil samples and price out a rebuild of same.

Good luck, no easy answers with a relatively low cost boat that you want as a live aboard.

 

[SoWhat]

Sounds like new impellers might be a good investment but I would pull the front plate off the heat exchanger on both engines (at your expense.) Everything the raw water filter doesn't catch ends up there.

Seals and clutch plates for velvet drive will cost you $600-$750, Damper plate another $100, not including removal/installation. They are massively overbuilt so I would not obsess about a high reading. Change the fluid.

But if your inner voice is saying the boat has been neglected then you should listen to it. You will never be comfortable with it. Some of us would prefer to rebuild the raw water system or both transmissions because we'll then have 100% confidence that whatever was rebuilt will be reliable for years to come. Others prefer to turn the key and go. The turn key approach is probably the more economic approach and is clearly the approach for anyone who doesn't enjoy sitting in the ER in contorted positions swinging a wrench an 1/8th turn at a time.

 

[Derik]

Thanks for all of the feedback, it seems the Broker is kind of counting on me and maybe his other offer of 49,000 wasn't concrete. There is more room for negotiations I am told. That wasn't so much the story yesterday.

I had revised my offer of 50 and offered 46K yesterday prior to the oil sample and final survey report.


The boat makes sense to me at 40,000 no more. So I relayed that to the Broker who's currently at a boat show. We will talk tomorrow.

 

[BandB]

Thanks for all of the feedback, it seems the Broker is kind of counting on me and maybe his other offer of 49,000 wasn't concrete. There is more room for negotiations I am told. That wasn't so much the story yesterday.

.

The broker was gaming you. There was no other offer. "Wasn't concrete?" You mean like "didn't exist, was just said to try to sell you"?

 

[OldDan1943]

The broker was gaming you. There was no other offer. "Wasn't concrete?" You mean like "didn't exist, was just said to try to sell you"?

Drop another 4K off your offer and if he tells you again about the 46K offer, shake your head and say, "There will always be another boat." My broker got real tired of me saying that. LOL

 

[Slow Motion]

If 40 is your number, then just do the deal. I buy an sell things in my company every year. I will tell truck dealer the price I am willing to pay. Its always a fair price. It's business it's not personal. Good luck, and flush those Transmissions.... but not with a "Flush", just new fluid.

 

[Seevee]

Wish I jumped on this thread sooner.... but

I see NO reason for any sea trial or such until the seller has accepted an offer subject to. Also, you can include that any undisclosed issues he pay for and get that agreed on, too.

As for a great boat with few issues, absolutely you can expect that with a 40 year old boat.... IF it was maintained properly. ALL boats have issues and maintenance, but clearly, this one has been neglected, and you'll have to deal with that.

I could make an argument that ANY major item that is an undisclosed issue be complete prior to purchase on the seller's dime, and items that are disclosed prior to offer you need a concrete estimate of repairs just to know where you stand.

Now, sounds like there's been a few improvements which is great.

When you figure out what this boat will cost you in total take ALL of the discrepancies and all your wants and add them up. You well end up well north of $100K, and probably will, but that may be doable and end up with a really nice boat.

Another thing is time. It will take time to fix, modify and make additions and stuff you want done, and that has a value. From the sounds of it, I'd bet that you'll tie up 6 to 12 months or longer before it's done the way you want. But depending on the projects, you may have use of it for most of that time. If you get into major engine work, replacing fuel cells (which I'd factor in because of their age), and major restoration, like the blisters, thru hulls, etc., you won't have use of the boat during those repairs.

This is clearly a project boat, but perhaps not a major project. And if you like to fix things, modify things and do a lot of maintenance work, it could be fine for you. It's not my thing, however.

When I bought my boat, it was 20 years newer, with less than 500 hours and pristine condition and took me over 8 months getting it the way I wanted it. Just food for thought.

 

[geoleo]

Drop another 4K off your offer and if he tells you again about the 46K offer, shake your head and say, "There will always be another boat." My broker got real tired of me saying that. LOL

Drop 7K

 

[BruceK]

If temp checking because you doubt gauge accuracy, shoot the sender area. If you get high temps at no 6, remember Lehmans build silt in the rear cooling passages which often means no 6 is the area of failure. But before thinking that, get the seller to rework the cooling system, as Sunchaser suggests.
The "other offer" is probably BS. If you feel 40K is it then go with it, sometimes you get a feel for what you should pay and what the seller will take. I`ve got brave and said,"if you`ve got another offer at $X,take it, I`ll drop out". But be ready to miss out if he`s not lying.

 

[Derik]

I remember when I bought my first house my father in-law at the time said "offer them half" Sellers of most things over 100.00 know the market somewhat especially in this case since he owned the boat for less than 2 years and paid 67,000 for it. Having said that he also probably knows all the issues I found plus a few more.

I feel like if I get it for 40,000 it's a decent deal. Someone may pay more but I made my offer almost a month ago and after a lot of due diligence revised it, he's in Virginia paying for a slip here in San Diego. It may take another year to sale it.. anyway no word yet but I suspect I will hear a counter or an acceptance tomorrow.

 

[BruceK]

... It may take another year to sale it.. anyway no word yet but I suspect I will hear a counter or an acceptance tomorrow.

Consider putting an expiry date on your offer. Depending how it was framed you should be able to withdraw your offer when you like.

 

[markpierce]

Gets me that after obtaining a survey, the potential buyer wants everything fixed like new, as if they were buying a new boat.

 

[Derik]

I didn't ask for anything to be fixed other than the sea cocks. I requested this because I was told I needed that fix in order to get insurance.

The reduction of my price was a long process of finding out many many things after my initial offer of 50,000.

I offered 50,000 prior to finding the latest survey they had done a year and a half ago then deducted for that survey and then finally deducted for my survey this week and the oil test.

My survey found a few key items the other two didn't mainly the warm engine, rusted rudder bolts, bad transmission oil tests, windless not working, no heads working, bilge pumps not working and almost all equipment listed in the sales document missing. ( most electronics don't work or are missing) It listed several fish finders, GPS and such and has only one Raymarine unit that appears to not have a transducer or GPS functional. I could go on and on but I didn't expect every thing to work just expected a functional boat I could take out and work on while enjoying it.

To me the value isn't there. I prefer a 40-43 trawler but for 50,000 I feel I could get a really nice 30 plus sport fisher that would serve me well or a smaller trawler in better condition or pay 75 and get one in this size range in better condition. Maybe I am wrong but am not in a hurry. Having said that at 40,000 this boat makes sense and I do like it. For 50 or 46K it's too much work and expense for me.

 

[sunchaser]

Gets me that after obtaining a survey, the potential buyer wants everything fixed like new, as if they were buying a new boat.

Mark
Good point and as raised earlier by Hollywood and others. The only issue I'd dig my heels on is the as of yet unexplained overheat.

Derik, like many have, will learn the entry and upkeep fees on a near antique 4X foot vessel are not small. Far exceeding unitial expectations.

 

[Derik]

Well I own a lot of "Antiques" then and everything I own, old cars, old boats, old house.. everything is well maintained with oil changes, no leaks, and fully functional. I realize 43 feet is a lot to keep up on but not if your living on it as were the two previous owners.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, I have no word from the Broker today so they must have taken the other offer.

 

[dhays]

Well I own a lot of "Antiques" then and everything I own, old cars, old boats, old house.. everything is well maintained with oil changes, no leaks, and fully functional. I realize 43 feet is a lot to keep up on but not if your living on it as were the two previous owners.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, I have no word from the Broker today so they must have taken the other offer.

Derik, I certainly am not going to suggest buying or walking away. I think the points that others have made that it IS and old boat and with any boat, old or new, there are risks. If you were to find a boat this age, with the level of care and maintenance that you wish this one had, it would be a LOT more expensive.

 

[High Wire]

Snip.

My survey found a few key items the other two didn't mainly the warm engine, rusted rudder bolts, bad transmission oil tests, windless not working, no heads working, bilge pumps not working and almost all equipment listed in the sales document missing. ( most electronics don't work or are missing) It listed several fish finders, GPS and such and has only one Raymarine unit that appears to not have a transducer or GPS functional.

This says to me the owner gave up trying to maintain the boat and just wants out. Good luck either way.

 

[BruceK]

Derik, seems to me after much investigation and thought for you it`s worth buying at 40K and otherwise not. I imagine 1K more won`t matter, but essentially that`s it. You`ve seen the boat, been through the hedge backwards investigating and negotiating,I respect you know best. Good luck with it.

 

[Xsbank]

Oh I think you should walk. What was the question?

 

[Derik]

Got it!

The Broker got back to me later and the seller accepted the 40,000 offer. I am happy and think I got a good deal for a pretty decent boat, boat that needs some TLC. Now it's mine of course it's in much better shape already!

I was able to get the slip transfer as of Oct 1 as I had promised the seller this get's him off the hook and i deliver the final 15,000 due Oct 4.

Anyway thanks for everyone's help and advise it worked out well I listened learned and it was a bit stressful but not too bad.

Here is the listing again.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Marine-Trader-Motor-Yacht-3049803/#.W4oZLYGPLrf

 

[AdmiralS]

The Broker got back to me later and the seller accepted the 40,000 offer. I am happy and think I got a good deal for a pretty decent boat, boat that needs some TLC. Now it's mine of course it's in much better shape already!

I was able to get the slip transfer as of Oct 1 as I had promised the seller this get's him off the hook and i deliver the final 15,000 due Oct 4.

Anyway thanks for everyone's help and advise it worked out well I listened learned and it was a bit stressful but not too bad.

Here is the listing again.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Marine-Trader-Motor-Yacht-3049803/#.W4oZLYGPLrf

Congratulations!