South Pacific Mayday

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Agree a hand held satphone is a good addition. I have when I felt I needed one rented and used pre-paid cards. This gave me the security of knowing I had emergency two way comms while having strict cost control. It's been a while so I don't know if that's still possible.

Preprogramming the sat phone, entering numbers in the inReach, having a shore side primary contact who has all the relevant info are all important considerations when cruising, especially off the beaten path.

In addition to assisting with comms to search and rescue your shore side person can handle the traffic you don't have time to deal with. For example concerned relatives and friends asking for updates and expressing their thoughts regarding your situation.
 
There has been discussion that Starlink Satellites will soon be able to directly communicate with at least T-Mobiles phones. Suspect more to follow but I have heard about any updates with even T-Mobile lately.

Hopefully soon for all phones.
 
I understand star links offshore limitations as I have over 10,000nm bluewater miles in both hemispheres using it.

I do not know of anybody including myself that is suggesting it replaces a EPIRB or any other piece of safety gear, hinting that it might is just silly talk.

Should you choose to not have internet access offshore is definitely your prerogative and I will not judge you for it But suggesting as has been stated “Starlink to be an absolutely useless piece of survival gear for a host or reasons” is a mistake in my opinion. Not only is the marine version robust and well suited to the marine environment it gives you the ability to get info well in advance of the very thing most likely to put you in survival mode. Weather forecast on demand. This alone makes it vital gear in my opinion. Yours may differ

Camo
Via starlink , 2300nm off Ecuador.
 
One of the other reasons for an Inreach is preprogrammed messages. While I like and carry 2 EPIRBs on the boat, and a PLB on my life vest, the ability to have preprogrammed messages to selected individuals that can speak for you to the authorities, improves your odds and multiples your chances by not being forced to go through one government agency.

Ted
 
I'd bet the guy had a version of all possible alert devices. Fear of God goes through your mind when you do something like he was doing. It's possible he had everything going for him and it was not enough. Sobering.

Peter
 
Don’t think anyone even implied Starlink is useless. In fact it’s been demonstrated to be quite useful as seen in the recent rescue. Also quite useful in making an inconvenience not become a more urgent pressing problem as a mechanism in getting outside advice and support in fixing the complexities now seen in many cruising boats.
The only statement made is a wonderful thing but doesn’t supplant the standard fare of Epirbs, PLDs and some form of satellite handheld device.
Agree with Peter. Sobering and again proof of the old saw” you can’t buy safety” only improve your odds. Like many friends have come to believe going single ups the risk to a degree I no longer have any interest in doing blue water on any vessel singlehanded. A limb injury, illness or so many many things would make it impossible for you to deal with an equipment failure, heavy weather, holing or adequately deploy your emergency plans.
 
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Like her list but would add a handheld reverse osmosis device. You can go for a month without food but only a week without water. Last few days you won’t be functional. Water is heavy. We do have food and water packets in our ditchbag and a solar kit to make water but the volume produced is marginal. The handheld device works well and works day or night, sunny or inclement.
 
Fwiw he has a back up hand pump water maker as well as a inreach and other assorted electrical gizmos none of which do you any good when your solar system goes inoperative.
Perhaps his equipment was junk, maybe he is not handy to fix stuff or perhaps he was just unlucky and an unknown catastrophe happened to him. We can not know until he is found.

We all do our best and then leave the dock and take our chances.
 
psneeld said:
There has been discussion that Starlink Satellites will soon be able to directly communicate with at least T-Mobiles phones. Suspect more to follow but I have heard about any updates with even T-Mobile lately.

Hopefully soon for all phones.
Click to expand...

I am already making and receiving cell phone calls where there is no cell service with Starlink.
 
SteveK said:
I am already making and receiving cell phone calls where there is no cell service with Starlink.
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I think the phone thing is going to be used without a Starlink receiver...phone direct to satellite.

Off Goggle....

"T-Mobile and SpaceX have announced a plan to provide satellite-to-cellular service using Starlink satellites. The service will use T-Mobile's mid-band spectrum to connect phones to satellites. The service will offer near complete coverage in most places in the US, especially in remote areas. The service will start with text service and may be added for free to existing T-Mobile plans. The service is expected to launch next year with a beta program"
 
Camo, are you able to discuss what you've been instructed to do once you reach the desired location? Will there be other vessels there and everyone will perform a coordinated search pattern?
 
As it stands now my iphone 14 on verizon can send a mayday text via satellite when there is no cell service.

You just point it at the sky unit the signal indicates it has a satellite and it sends.
Would I count on it as my primary? No.
But I did specifically go buy a iphone 14 as soon as the system when live.
Redundancy is good, i like options.
 
CamoPirate said:
Fwiw he has a back up hand pump water maker as well as a inreach and other assorted electrical gizmos none of which do you any good when your solar system goes inoperative.
Perhaps his equipment was junk, maybe he is not handy to fix stuff or perhaps he was just unlucky and an unknown catastrophe happened to him. We can not know until he is found.

We all do our best and then leave the dock and take our chances.
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Don't know how he configured the Inreach, but if you configure it to send a tracking signal every 30 minutes with with display off, the internal battery should last over 200 hours (8+ days) after being removed from the charging cradle.

Ted
 
NaClyDog said:
Camo, are you able to discuss what you've been instructed to do once you reach the desired location? Will there be other vessels there and everyone will perform a coordinated search pattern?
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We are running 5nm Parallel bands in a search box 120nm x 50nm

There have been about a dozen sailboat transit the area that were advised BOLO

1 sail boat did a Victor Sierra search pattern
Currently 3 boats doing Parallel Bands.
Us on Spirit of Ulysses, superyacy Samaya and cargo ship Marius
 

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darkside said:
Starlink can help in marine emergencies in ways that traditional methods couldn't possibly. These guys got talked through a medical procedure by a surgeon in Australia while on the way to Fiji from NZ.
Then the helicopter evacuation of some daring.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/just-mindblowing-northland-chopper-crews-courage-skill-praised-after-extreme-rescue-off-coast/HC2N2K5R7JBGXM4QFZYMH2QEXM/
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Have fixed radar snafus walked through by a tech, done telemed consultation with infectious disease physician caring for a sick crew, troubleshot a genset via satellite. There’s nothing magical about Starlink. Any and all vendors of satellite comms offer voice, data and even images that you or who you contacted have generated. The Starlink service is remarkably for being less expensive. In an effort to decrease expense in the past have tried to decrease satellite time whenever I could. Used SSB to get low baud gribs and synoptics. Via a pact or modem to to do emails and other weather products. Did back and forth with weather router (chris Parker) on SSB as well. Used the satellite (fleet one sailor) for voice and when SSB transmission was poor. If he eventually puts up all his satellites it would be more convenient and less expensive to not use SSB at all except for social reasons. Larger boats/ships and those with deeper pockets have moved on from SSB some time ago. But for small yachts and those with limited resources Starlink is a game changer. Continue to hope existing and new vendors enter this market at this price point creating some competition. Wonder if the cost of a satellite network will come down to a point it’s cheaper to do satellites than build and maintain cell towers. When and if that occurs there will be competition
 
darkside and Hippocampus describe well scenarios where voice comms in an emergency or urgent situation are very valuable. Could be critical. That said I still won't be without EPIRB and inReach because of their portability, ruggedness and internal long lasting power supply.

Starlink has a bright future and may well displace iridium due to better performance. This will force a change upon services such as inReach that use the iridium constellation. I doubt starlink will displace COSPAS-SARSAT. Maybe but I doubt it. Too much tied up in international agreements and support and use by the commercial sector.

I'm sure it is techniclly possible to design and build a handheld device as rugged, portable and long lasting power supply with the current inReach functionality and the added benefit of voice comms running on the Starlink constellation. I hope to see such devices come on the market in the near future. Garmin, luv 'em or hate 'em are an inovator and a purchaseer of leading tech developments. I don't see Garmin sitting still and letting Starlink eat their lunch. They will have to learn to co-operate with Starlink. The will be some ego issues to be resolved.

I see 4 shortcomings to present inReach emergency response.
1 - inReach is not float free automatic activation.
2 - After pressing the SOS button the user needs to confirm there is an emergency with the response center. If the user is busy abandoning ship or dealing with some other time critical response the Garmin keyboard is too slow and cumbersome. Yes, a cell phone can be used as a keyboard which is much easier but now you've introduced a second more fragile device.
3 - No voice comms for complex situations requiring two way comms. That medical emergency may not happen on the mother ship with access to Starlink hardware in it's present development.
4 - The inReach doesn't float.

1 is sloved by carrying a float free automatic EPIRB
2 & 3 are mitigated by voice comms.
4 is technically simple. Lots of VHF floating hand sets around or the user can add floatation.
 
Portage_Bay said:
I see 4 shortcomings to present inReach emergency response.
1 - inReach is not float free automatic activation.
2 - After pressing the SOS button the user needs to confirm there is an emergency with the response center. If the user is busy abandoning ship or dealing with some other time critical response the Garmin keyboard is too slow and cumbersome. Yes, a cell phone can be used as a keyboard which is much easier but now you've introduced a second more fragile device.
3 - No voice comms for complex situations requiring two way comms. That medical emergency may not happen on the mother ship with access to Starlink hardware in it's present development.
4 - The inReach doesn't float.

1 is sloved by carrying a float free automatic EPIRB
2 & 3 are mitigated by voice comms.
4 is technically simple. Lots of VHF floating hand sets around or the user can add floatation.
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While you make good points, I see Inreach's role somewhat differently.

If I were to be rowing across the Pacific, the Inreach's job would be to mark my trail via satellite tracking every hour. This would show my position, but also during periods of rest, it would show drift patterns.

With prerecorded texts, I would send "all is well" texts 3 times a day to 3 different recipients.

I would also have a "Mayday" text and several other texts with most likely adverse condition scenarios prerecorded.

As there can be significant delays in uploading to a satellite, I don't see Inreach replacing an EPIRB / PLB.

Converting the Inreach to a float free would be a pretty simple matter of attaching the cradle to a float free device and making sure the power cable easily pulls free. In this day and age of lithium battery packs, it might make more sense to have a float free device for the inReach with its own lithium battery, good for the duration of the trip.

Ted
 
CamoPirate said:
We are running 5nm Parallel bands in a search box 120nm x 50nm

There have been about a dozen sailboat transit the area that were advised BOLO

1 sail boat did a Victor Sierra search pattern
Currently 3 boats doing Parallel Bands.
Us on Spirit of Ulysses, superyacy Samaya and cargo ship Marius
Click to expand...


I know nothing about such search patterns, so would be interested to hear from those who do...


It seems to be that running 50nm bands would be better than running 120nm bands, i.e. vertical bands vs horizontal in your diagram. That way there is less elapsed time for a drifting target to cross into and past your search band before you get to it. At 8kts it will take you 15hrs to run one 120nm band. In 15 hrs, a target drifting at 1kt will pass through your search band and be out of sight before you make the next sweep. If you sweep in the other direction, each pass will take 6.25 hrs, and will ensure that a drifting target hasn't passed through your band by the time you come by again.


Are there other considerations? Maybe the direction of drift is known to be along the 120nm direction? Perhaps that nullifies the concern?


Just curious how this works. I'm sure others have given it lots of consideration.
 
Agree with your points regarding tracking and the convenience of preset msgs for daily check in. I use it that way on coastal trips. It's particularly helpful on deliveries where I can give the owners access to the map and easily send them "Everything is OK" msgs.

Regarding inReach delays connecting to Satellites. Yes, it can take up to 10 minutes but usually is much faster. My experience is that it often faster. It would be good to research that and to learn of SOS is prioritized over text msgs.

It is also worth considering that EPIRBs can suffer delays as well.
Since EPIRB signals are primarily detected by satellites that pass overhead, occasionally there may be a delay in detection (perhaps an hour) if there is no satellite currently in the area to pick up the signal.
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For me, until better tech comes along, it will EPIRB and inReach as primary emergency comms. Voice comms as well would be good but not the primary device. I don't see anything coming down the pike that will get me to give up EPIRB.
O C Diver said:
While you make good points, I see Inreach's role somewhat differently.

If I were to be rowing across the Pacific, the Inreach's job would be to mark my trail via satellite tracking every hour. This would show my position, but also during periods of rest, it would show drift patterns.

With prerecorded texts, I would send "all is well" texts 3 times a day to 3 different recipients.

I would also have a "Mayday" text and several other texts with most likely adverse condition scenarios prerecorded.

As there can be significant delays in uploading to a satellite, I don't see Inreach replacing an EPIRB / PLB.

Converting the Inreach to a float free would be a pretty simple matter of attaching the cradle to a float free device and making sure the power cable easily pulls free. In this day and age of lithium battery packs, it might make more sense to have a float free device for the inReach with its own lithium battery, good for the duration of the trip.

Ted
Click to expand...
 
twistedtree said:
I know nothing about such search patterns, so would be interested to hear from those who do...


It seems to be that running 50nm bands would be better than running 120nm bands, i.e. vertical bands vs horizontal in your diagram. That way there is less elapsed time for a drifting target to cross into and past your search band before you get to it. At 8kts it will take you 15hrs to run one 120nm band. In 15 hrs, a target drifting at 1kt will pass through your search band and be out of sight before you make the next sweep. If you sweep in the other direction, each pass will take 6.25 hrs, and will ensure that a drifting target hasn't passed through your band by the time you come by again.


Are there other considerations? Maybe the direction of drift is known to be along the 120nm direction? Perhaps that nullifies the concern?


Just curious how this works. I'm sure others have given it lots of consideration.
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It is my understanding the long bands (120nm) are in the direction of the current and only 5nm between bands.


Scroll down to Creeping line or Charlie Sierra; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_surface_searches.


I've been monitoring their movements and they have just recently started their second band.
 
Here was one of my bibles for nearly 20 years.

It may be so updated now with computer generated plans ...etc...I may have been trained differently.

Everything you wanted to know how at least the USCG prosecutes SAR cases....

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA510007.pdf
 
Agree unfortunately nothing meets the needs totally so epirb PLB will be around for some time to come. In process of switching to combined GPS/AIS for the personal devices. Can see the gps getting you real close and the AIS taking you to the spot as you steer to a raft or MOB making use of your MFD. In a seaway at night think this would be better than flares.

During atmospheric disturbances have had occasion when the Satphone preformed poorly with drops and the SSB worked well and the reverse more commonly. Particularly true with handheld satphones even when using the cradle and fixed mounted antenna. There are levels of need with comm just like pan pan v mayday. Voice is most helpful when a back and forth conversation is required. Trying to txt while you’re fixing something is a PIA. But in raft or water see the sense of set it off and forget it. Totally passive after deployment. Think anyone who has done a mob drill knows how hard it is to find someone. Even during the day when you know when they went into the water. Our CG is amazing in that they find anyone at all outside real coastal settings.
 
With GPS location, offshore and coastal and back bay pretty much are the same for SAR.

30 years ago, not so... SAR navigation beyond commercial aviation NAVAIDs or within LORAN dead zones was truly dependent on crew training.

Finding a head in the water treading water in the middle of any decent sized body of water is really no easier than offshore. Really depends on the notification plus elapsed and time to "on scene" , also available information at the beginning and throughout the case.

Spotting surface targets from the air or surface craft are a tossup in my experience....it's the little extra in being seen that helps dramatically with electronic aids being the apex of the pyramid.
 
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During the NZ to Fiji medical event the crew used video via Starlink to help the Australian based surgeon give direction. That to me is the next level over voice, especially at a cost affordable to most voyagers.
On a much lower level we sent "as installed" pics of our electronics from a remote Stewart Island anchorage to the electronics supplier to quickly resolve an autopilot fault. Not an emergency in any way but shows the capability.
We still had an EPIRB and a raft, but those are different tools.
 
Camo, are you one of the noted vessels? I assume the other boats/ships in that line are part of the search? I don't have a premium version to MT so my data could be off.
 

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Fletcher500 said:
Camo, are you one of the noted vessels? I assume the other boats/ships in that line are part of the search? I don't have a premium version to MT so my data could be off.
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Those are boats just leaving panama, go 2600nm south west towards Marquesses islands. We are 1000nm North east of Nuka Hiva. We are in a small group searching there down current/wind from his last PLB ping.
 
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