Spring 2021 transit to Alaska

[Nomad Willy]

ASD wrote;
“We can only hope the politicians on both sides of the fence will start making decisions based on science and common sense.”

And you think the’re not?
Based on science 100% IMO.
Where do you see otherwise?

Are you suggesting when we get the same percentage of sick people on both sides we should open the border?

 

[firehoser75]

In person debate is better, because you can catch the ironic twinkle in the eye behind a prodding/confrontational comment. Not so on internet forums...

Agreed on both posts!!! The drinks as well.

 

[klee wyck]

BTW, this is what we are all missing, or have temporarily lost. A good debate, plenty of differences, but still friends able to enjoy a beer together.



Cheers!

This from Twisted for sure. The pandemic is bad enough without causing estrangement in the brotherhood of boating or in the brotherhood of North Americans that have had a productive partnership for a long time.
The policy seems reasonable to me given the circumstances. Our case rate down here seems about 4x the rate up North and the fact that our death rate is only 2x points to the very real difference in risk from the virus to the North. You are just over twice as likely to die if infected in the Canadian health care system so more care in containment certainly seems warranted. The fact that there is only 200+ total ICU beds in all of BC seems a compelling reason to see a difference in border control policy.
I get that and am very comfortable with it. Preservation of life seems far more important than the convenience of m border crossings.
It is also worth noting that this is also not convenient for BC and so likely not undertaken lightly. Over ten percent of the GDP there comes from dollars originating down here or at least outside of Canadian borders. They have sacrificed one of every ten dollars to protect the life and health of the citizenry by this border policy. I respect this.

I must admit though, as comfortable and respectful that I am of this policy, I can see where the attitude in comments from just a couple of posters could raise some blood pressure.
We get and accept that we visitors from the South are non essential and therefore unwelcome. But, when this is pointed out too stridently, it is tempting to wonder if when the trucks arrive from the cesspool South of you with the vaccines discovered and manufactured here to rescue both First Nations and settlers, both lives and economy, from this pandemic.....
Will that truck be nonessential and unwelcome as well??
Just musing, and looking forward to the days when we can just be friends and fellow boaters again! This estrangement may be even more unwelcome than the pandemic itself. Solutions seem a better use of our energy.

 

[MurrayM]

Nice post, yet with a barb at the end. I believe Canada has made purchasing agreements with 7 companies, and not all are from the US.

 

[MurrayM]

Deaths per million is 872 in the US compared to 336 in Canada.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Long term care housing for seniors, and the death toll there, is Canada's shame. We need to do better.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Deaths per million is 872 in the US compared to 336 in Canada.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Long term care housing for seniors, and the death toll there, is Canada's shame. We need to do better.

Death rate in the US now exceeds all other major causes of death besides heart disease and cancer. In a normal year, the mortality rate for flu/pneumonia is about 140 persons per million according to a USCDC chart.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Deaths per million is 872 in the US compared to 336 in Canada.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Long term care housing for seniors, and the death toll there, is Canada's shame. We need to do better.

That’s it Murray!

 

[RonR]

Well, back to the topic, I sure hope the lot of you are able to head North to your destinations this spring. It was hell finding a quiet place to anchor last summer in the San Juan's. We plan on sticking to the South Sound, and the San Juan's this summer.

 

[MurrayM]

Pretty sure 80% of Canada's Covid-19 deaths occurred in seniors homes. Workers kept at part time jobs. They had to work at several homes to make ends meet. Transmission made easy.

If that hadn't happened, we'd probably have numbers closer to Germany, which has 230 deaths per million, or 1/4 the per capita rate of the US.

 

[MurrayM]

Politics, Canada style:

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Again, it is no longer about the virus. Those in charge don't give a crap. Get over it. Its about control and money.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Do tell.

 

[MurrayM]

Again, it is no longer about the virus. Those in charge don't give a crap. Get over it. Its about control and money.

Evidence?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Evidence?

No science on lockdowns. The US CDC has stated there are no reason schools and out door dining can't happen or is dangerous etc. If you don't see this, then you are a sheep following your leaders without question. In The US democrat mayors and Mayors are shutting down the economy not based on science but based on socialist policy of control and political money. Its now all about political science.

 

[MurrayM]

No science on lockdowns. The US CDC has stated there are no reason schools and out door dining can't happen or is dangerous etc. If you don't see this, then you are a sheep following your leaders without question. In The US democrat mayors and Mayors are shutting down the economy not based on science but based on socialist policy of control and political money. Its now all about political science.

When did I say schools should be closed or outdoor dining is bad?

Lots of evidence regarding Covid-19 spread...show me one where they say crowded conditions with no masks results in the same transmission rate as uncrowded conditions where people are wearing masks.

Also, what about the money/control angle? Where's that evidence?

Is it really a Republican/Democrat thing? What is your primary news source?

 

[Alaskaflyer]

No science on lockdowns. The US CDC has stated there are no reason schools and out door dining can't happen or is dangerous etc. If you don't see this, then you are a sheep following your leaders without question. In The US democrat mayors and Mayors are shutting down the economy not based on science but based on socialist policy of control and political money. Its now all about political science.

'You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."

That's not what the CDC guidance says. In fact, they classify outdoor dining as either "more risk" or "higher risk", which I suppose is better than "highest risk" but a bit worse than "not dangerous".

Ditto schools. What they have said is that in a difficult analysis of two lousy outcomes, kids suffering from all the negative effects of being away from school vs. theoretical community spread among kids, staff and and then family members and so on, it is perhaps better to attend in-person school with numerous covid mitigations, than to cancel in-person classes just to avoid the virus, but in areas with higher incidence, that calculation changes.

As to your last two sentences, pure nonsense. Pure nonsense. After all, these same Democrats rely on tax revenue to enact the programs that you no doubt hate so much.

Covid is the third leading cause of death in the US. People are dying at the rate of four or five fully-booked airliners crashing to earth every day in this country. More than car wrecks. More than medical mistakes. More than suicide. More than pneumonia and sepsis caused by every. Other. Pathogen.

Am I terrified? No I am not. Does life need to grind to a halt? No. Do I think that my need to eat sushi at the counter or vacation up towards Desolation Bay is more important than controlling the pandemic? No. Are people who need or even just want to get to Alaska able to do so? Yes they are.

If 28 airliners full of people were crashing to earth every week without significant and I mean significant government action most conservatives would be screaming for blood and closing down the NAS. Well, most, there will always be the "special people" out there.

BTW I do think the double standard of air travel vs ground travel between Canada and the US is utter lunacy.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Are you a small business? Put your heart, soul and life savings into it? The employees that work for you. Being shut down even after following all the bullshit regulations? Then a production company setting up a 500 person buffet style meal tent 50 feet from your establishment which the government has determined unsafe.

No? GO POUND SAND!

 

[soin2la]

Those in charge don't give a crap. Get over it.

If you don't see this, then you are a sheep following your leaders without question.

Though exceptionalism might misguide your right to tell us how we think, we don’t see it that way up here in BC.

Through the very critical first eight months of the pandemic, we had three politically opposed parties in our legislature which acted as one nonpartisan unit, for the good of all, to get us to a point that was much better than anything the rest of the west coast accomplished. We were not divided, so don’t throw your red vs blue at us; it doesn’t work.

Klee wyck put up an articulate, heartfelt Oprah post about brotherhood, respect and estrangement. I fail to understand why you insist on undermining those principles with bombast that began long before covid took away your sense of entitlement, in my home.

Your constant attacks on our institutions, our people and our way of life, is just not in sync with you helping yourself to our nature, resources and hospitality.

Bloviating and cramming your political ideologies down Murray’s throat, is not endearing yourself to many of us, so you are welcome to take the outside route to AK.

It takes a lot of klee wycks to compensate for the over bearing righteousness of a single other.

 

[MurrayM]

Are you a small business? Put your heart, soul and life savings into it? The employees that work for you. Being shut down even after following all the bullshit regulations? Then a production company setting up a 500 person buffet style meal tent 50 feet from your establishment which the government has determined unsafe.

No? GO POUND SAND!

I wouldn't want to be a public health officer right now, especially when your science based advice gets filtered and watered down through politicians before select portions of it are related to the public.

If both our countries had effectively dealt with the situation at the outset, like other countries did, there wouldn't be a need for heavy handed restrictions and our economies would much more 'open'.

Sure, crazy outlier situations happen, but they are no basis for interpreting nation wide responses.

 

[kthoennes]

Well, despite attempts by a number of us to steer this back to the original topic, it seems to have turned into yet another general COVID debate thread. Time to unsubscribe to this thread and go back to actual boating topics like stinky holding tanks. Some just cannot resist the temptation to turn everything into a COVID public policy argument. Here, before skipping out I'll summarize the arguments:

Every human on earth is doomed. If you don't agree every human on earth is doomed, you're stupid. If you don't wear a mask, you're stupid.
Americans are stupid, every other country is benevolent and enlightened and more sensible than the U.S., and everybody else on earth and all nearby planets is nicer and wiser and more polite and they smell better. Lockdowns are the only answer. Wear a mask or you're killing grandma. And every other grandma you've ever known, and all your children and all your children's children and all your relatives in Buffalo, NY. If you do kill grandma and attend her funeral in person, you'll also kill everybody else at the funeral. And your entire neighborhood. Restaurant meals will kill you. Eat a Big Mac in person and you're killing somebody's else's grandma, and every else who ordered large fries. And New Zealand is enlightened because of the fierce lockdown (and the prime minister of New Zealand is brilliant because we all know if you treat an country like a prison camp long enough, on October 23, 2022, at 3:15 p.m. the virus will all board a space ship and leave earth for Neptune and never return, so lockdown is a great long term strategy). And by Tuesday it'll kill nine and a half billion people and it's worse than the plague, both world wars and the siege of Stalingrad, and if you don't agree, you're stupid and have no compassion on grandma. If you argue for personal freedom, you're a stupid, self-centered, murderous jerk, or should be wearing an aluminum foil beanie, when if you were enlightened like New Zealanders and cared about grandma, you'd cooperate and go to your basement and suck your thumb and rock back and forth wearing a mask all by yourself and have your groceries air-dropped down your chimney by helicopter until Dr. Fauci and the omniscient authorities tell you otherwise because what do you know, you're stupid and grandma is dead because of you.

There, I think I covered it.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I agree. Time to get back to traveling through BC to Alaska. Looking at the route Seymore rapids seems to be challenging. I normally take the Dent rapids route, but under the current rules the most direct route must be taken. Anchor in Port McNeill get fuel the following day.

 

[MurrayM]

I agree. Time to get back to traveling through BC to Alaska. Looking at the route Seymore rapids seems to be challenging. I normally take the Dent rapids route, but under the current rules the most direct route must be taken. Anchor in Port McNeill get fuel the following day.

I agree as well. All I ask is that you don't make any more 'kick the hornets nest' comments.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I thought they were honey bees? Lol

Time to watch the NFR!

 

[soin2la]

Looking at the route Seymore rapids seems to be challenging.

SeymOUr Narrows is not a challenge, if timed right. It's the winds in Johnstone Straight that will get you.

 

[trawlercap]

Depart Seattle on high tide, ride the ebb north until it turns to flood into Canada just past Whidby Isl. ride the flood north and Use Active Pass. You'll arrive Seymour 24 hours later an hour before slack. This was taught to me by an old fishermen in 1980. I did this more than once with a 10 kt. boat.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I agree. Time to get back to traveling through BC to Alaska. Looking at the route Seymore rapids seems to be challenging. I normally take the Dent rapids route, but under the current rules the most direct route must be taken. Anchor in Port McNeill get fuel the following day.

Have you contacted Canadian authorities for their definition of "most direct route". I'm hoping they don't micromanage to the point of choosing say between the Dent route vs the Seymour route. Perhaps their definition of "most direct route" means not dallying and visiting favorite inlets etc not on a "direct" route.

Also don't want to run 24 hrs / day with a twin screw exposed props and rudders boat. Too many dead heads. That's for heavy built single screw full keel boats.

Perfectly willing to anchor out and stay aboard from Wa to Ak, not even get off at the fuel dock.

 

[MurrayM]

...it is tempting to wonder if when the trucks arrive from the cesspool South of you with the vaccines discovered and manufactured here to rescue both First Nations and settlers, both lives and economy, from this pandemic.....
Will that truck be nonessential and unwelcome as well??...

First batch of vaccine apparently enroute to Canada...from Belgium.

 

[klee wyck]

First batch of vaccine apparently enroute to Canada...from Belgium.

Courtesy of Pfizer.....

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Have you contacted Canadian authorities for their definition of "most direct route". I'm hoping they don't micromanage to the point of choosing say between the Dent route vs the Seymour route. Perhaps their definition of "most direct route" means not dallying and visiting favorite inlets etc not on a "direct" route.

Also don't want to run 24 hrs / day with a twin screw exposed props and rudders boat. Too many dead heads. That's for heavy built single screw full keel boats.

Perfectly willing to anchor out and stay aboard from Wa to Ak, not even get off at the fuel dock.

Haven't contacted yet. Will do so closer to end of May. Agree Johnstone Straits can be nasty.

 

[MurrayM]

Courtesy of Pfizer.....

No courtesy as payment was involved...via Belgium