Starting to look at a Trawler

[seadogmike]

This may be long but I have a few general questions.

I am looking at a couple of Trawlers and would like opinions/advice.
Since this is my first rodeo, I would want to get my ducks in a row, but there are a couple of things that I am not sure about.
Of course a complete survey will be done before purchase. This brings up y first question regarding engines. I am not an engine mechanic (especially diesel). If the boat is on the hard, how would the surveyor be able to know the condition of the engine(s)? With my current I/O boat, I can put the ear muffs on it and crank it right up. Is there a way that this would be accomplished with a Trawler on the hard?
My expectations are that the following would need to be accomplished following a survey.
1. replace batteries
2. replace impellers
3. polish fuel
4. Change oil
5. change fuel filters.

The next question has to do with the transmission.
It would appear to me that operating the transmission with the boat on the hard (if this is possible), could (and probably would) damage the strut bushing in short order. (I'm pretty sure that it gets its lubrication from the water, but correct me if I am wrong.

This is a semi-project boat, that I am willing to invest a bit of money into, (probably end up being a lot of money).

34' Tollycraft
It has no teak decks. Twin Volvo TMD40A's with Less that 1700 hours.

Advice? Opinions? Cautions?

 

[Phil Fill]

Might want to have a survey done, excluding an engine survey. If more than 10 years hoses belts heat exchanger, zincs, bottom paint cutlass bearing, shaft log, thru hulls also the dc and ac wiring.

Most can be done with the boat in the water and a diver.

 

[seadogmike]

Since the boat is on the hard, I would prefer to do any repairs prior to wet time. Hoses belts, filters, and impellers all would be replaced in the process as well. The survey should reflect any deficiencies such as Thru-Hull fittings and the like. These would also be replaced as necessary.

Since I am a Marine Electrician, The AC and DC systems would be right up my alley.

My main concern since I am not a Mechanic (although mechanically inclined), is the engines. They were last run in 2014. I would like to have some comfort in knowing they were in working order prior to launch.

 

[dhays]

Since I am a Marine Electrician, The AC and DC systems would be right up my alley.

My main concern since I am not a Mechanic (although mechanically inclined), is the engines. They were last run in 2014. I would like to have some comfort in knowing they were in working order prior to launch.

Mike,

I think you found the answer, talk to a marine diesel mechanic and a surveyor. Being in the industry, you likely know a few. I see the catch-22 type of dilemma, but someone with the requisite skills and knowledge could help you out.

On another note, if the engine has not been run since 21014, I would talk to a diesel mechanic and ask them what are the likely worst case issues the engine would have. Estimate the costs of those repairs, and discount the buy offer by that much.

 

[Phil Fill]

Why before. I have as much of the work done at the dock. Are you going to have a sea trial? If so do it then. Sea trial is usually part of the purchase of most boats.

 

[millerbb77]

I have seen inboard engines run on the hard by removing the raw water intake hose from the sea cock and connecting a garden hose to the intake hose with an adapter.

Or putting the intake hose in a bucket with a garden hose to keep the bucket topped up.

Edit to add: However, that will just let you run it in idle, out of gear. A proper sea trial is the only way to observe the engines under load and at speed.

 

[seadogmike]

Dhays,

That sounds like a good Idea. I don't know if there are any Diesel mechanics on this forum, (or anyone that is intimately familiar with the volvo diesels) that would like to chime in.... I'm listening.

 

[sunchaser]

IMHO a sea trial on any vessel is 100% essential, especially a planing designed 34 Tolly. There are so many things to look for that are prop, shaft, rudder, full load RPM etc related. For sea trial related lists on the Tolly nothing more complicated than communicating with the Tolly Owner's Club is needed.

Art on this site could you help you a lot as could D Marchand who has a very nice (engine?) pre survey check list. Also, armed with engine data peruse the boatdiesel archives. Be patient or get burned is my take.

 

[seadogmike]

I don't know that a sea trial is possible because of the location of the boat. It will have to be moved/transported a couple hundred miles back to the coast. I'm willing to take a chance on it to a certain extent, as long as I can do my due diligence and check them out as best that I can.
The hours (if true) seem reasonable, I have asked for maintenance records from the owner, to give me some kind of idea how the engines were taken care of.

 

[ranger58sb]

SDMike, I would consider sea trial and engine survey (mechanical survey, in addition to the normal "marine" survey) absolutely essential in about 99% of cases.


-Chris

 

[No Mast]

I understand that having maintenance records could give you some security. However without a sea trial I think you're buying it knowing it is a possibility you'll be rebuilding or replacing engines or transmissions soon. Is it highly likely, probably not, but it is possible.

Personally, i wouldn't buy a boat unless I had a sea trial. That would be a deal breaker for me unless i was only interested in the hull.

 

[sunchaser]

I don't know that a sea trial is possible because of the location of the boat. .

So where is as is? Humm

 

[Puffin_NT32]

I'll second getting a good marine diesel mechanics to check out engine and transmission. You didn't state the age of the boat, but 1700 hours on a diesel is not that much. Sea age is more important. My 10 year old Nordic Tug's Cummins has 1659 hours on it, about 170 hours per season (New England). Not a high number of hours, but it's not sitting around from May to November, and it's well maintained. Even so, s..t happens and things wear out (water pump, alternator). I'd be more concerned if the boat was 20 years old or older. Needing to polish the fuel indicates an older boat sitting around. On older boats with low hours, engines and components rust out before wearing out.

Has the engine been properly maintained and did previous owner have a detailed maintenance log? You're in South Carolina. Is this a local boat? Does it get stored and winterized? It's common to winterize boats up here, and running the engine on the hard is a standard practice. Pop the cover off the raw water strainer, throw in a garden hose (some of us have a fresh water connector on the filter), and run the engine, just not at high or wide-open throttle. You can even engage the transmission, just make sure nobody's around the prop Belts and hose should be checked and replaced if necessary. Oil and filters, water pump impellers, yes. Based on age, heat exchangers, aftercoolers, and oil and fuel coolers need to be checked/cleaned. The list goes on. A good Volvo mechanic would know what to check.

 

[BandB]

I don't know that a sea trial is possible because of the location of the boat. It will have to be moved/transported a couple hundred miles back to the coast. I'm willing to take a chance on it to a certain extent, as long as I can do my due diligence and check them out as best that I can.
The hours (if true) seem reasonable, I have asked for maintenance records from the owner, to give me some kind of idea how the engines were taken care of.

Without a sea trial and engine survey it's all a crap shoot. But I'm confused about the location of the boat. Is it 200 miles from water? How did it get there? Why? That aspect makes no sense. Who moves a boat 200 miles from the nearest water and then tries to sell it there. That would remove my minimal trust completely.

 

[coast1]

Have you read any reviews on this model? Tolly's are fantastic but like anything there are some exceptions, and this model might be one of them. Check it out and hopefully I'm wrong.
As to the other areas that have been mentioned they seem to be adding up to a negative for this purchase. IMHO.
Thanks
Graham

 

[No Mast]

lots of boats out there

 

[dhays]

Without a sea trial and engine survey it's all a crap shoot. But I'm confused about the location of the boat. Is it 200 miles from water? How did it get there? Why? That aspect makes no sense. Who moves a boat 200 miles from the nearest water and then tries to sell it there. That would remove my minimal trust completely.

I don't know, it happened to Noah....

Seems to me in a situation like the boat has to be discounted for the situation it is in. 200 miles away from water, then I understand why there may not be a marine diesel mechanic handy. Depending on the cost of the boat, and what insurance carriers or lenders would require, I would assume that anything that can't be checked out at the time of purchase is really, really bad. Discount the price based on that, plus the cost of moving to water etc....

A purchase like this is a risk and it sounds like the OP knows it. The trick is to pay so little for the boat, given the uncertainty, that the risk becomes tolerable.

 

[bayview]

Starting the engines on land wont tell you much. The expensive problems show up under load.

 

[Wxx3]

IMHO a sea trial on any vessel is 100% essential, especially a planing designed 34 Tolly. There are so many things to look for that are prop, shaft, rudder, full load RPM etc related. For sea trial related lists on the Tolly nothing more complicated than communicating with the Tolly Owner's Club is needed.

Art on this site could you help you a lot as could D Marchand who has a very nice (engine?) pre survey check list. Also, armed with engine data peruse the boatdiesel archives. Be patient or get burned is my take.

Looks like good advice to me.

Sea Dog Mike, spend the little money it would take to put it in the water. It will be the best money you ever spent.

And you may save some money by focusing exactly what the boat needs.

 

[seadogmike]

OK,
Is a mechanic available? yes.
The boat was moved inland due to Health reasons of the original owner. His family was paying for a slip that the boat was in, without it being used, so a financial decision was made to move the boat to their farm, where it has been since 2014. After his passing away, they were "stuck" with the boat, because no one in the family is interested in it. It is for sale now because the "farm" where it is being stored is up for sale.

That was why i asked the question about starting the engines on the hard. If the engines can be run for the mechanics survey, then I would believe that more than likely they would operate properly. My thoughts are this... To by the boat without a sea trial, I agree that this is not the best situation. The engines, transmissions, and drive are the biggest chunk of what scares me abut the deal. There is some room for negotiation in the price.
I was more concerned with how much a mechanic would be able to tell me without there being a sea trial. Based on what I am hearing, not much more than I could figure out myself.
I know enough about the rest of the boat systems to make a decision based on the surveyors input. The question was more about the engines than the entire boat.

 

[FF]

Don't forget an antifreez flush with 2 part cleaner .

 

[seadogmike]

WXX3,
So, I should spent a few boat bucks to haul it to water, give it the once over, then if not satisfied, a few more boat bucks to haul it back to where I got it.

Maybe it's not worth the hassle. The people that own the boat want it out of their hands, but i wouldn't want to spend 5-6 boat bucks just to find out if the engines and transmissions were in operating order.
I'm gonna call the Volvo mechanic that I found and see what he has to say about it.

 

[BandB]

OK,
Is a mechanic available? yes.
The boat was moved inland due to Health reasons of the original owner. His family was paying for a slip that the boat was in, without it being used, so a financial decision was made to move the boat to their farm, where it has been since 2014. After his passing away, they were "stuck" with the boat, because no one in the family is interested in it. It is for sale now because the "farm" where it is being stored is up for sale.

That was why i asked the question about starting the engines on the hard. If the engines can be run for the mechanics survey, then I would believe that more than likely they would operate properly. My thoughts are this... To by the boat without a sea trial, I agree that this is not the best situation. The engines, transmissions, and drive are the biggest chunk of what scares me abut the deal. There is some room for negotiation in the price.
I was more concerned with how much a mechanic would be able to tell me without there being a sea trial. Based on what I am hearing, not much more than I could figure out myself.
I know enough about the rest of the boat systems to make a decision based on the surveyors input. The question was more about the engines than the entire boat.

Well, there should be questions on the entire boat. The hull, every mechanical item, electronics, pumps, impellers. But then as to the engines, I'd value them as zero and assume their replacement necessary. Were they winterized? You don't know. How much water sitting in them? How much rust? (That you can see a little of on land). But no real way to discern their condition on land. When a boat is taken to land and sits there for two years, until proven otherwise it's salvage pricing.

As to negotiation, you're basically playing Russian Roulette so it's whatever you feel your luck for the day is. What I would offer would anger them. However, rest assured, those who go around looking for boats like this and then reconditioning them pay very low prices. They assume the worst.

They may have felt the right financial decision was moving it to the farm, but it wasn't.

 

[sunchaser]

Advice? Opinions? Cautions?

Asked for and provided, by many.

 

[seadogmike]

I'll second getting a good marine diesel mechanics to check out engine and transmission. You didn't state the age of the boat, but 1700 hours on a diesel is not that much. Sea age is more important. My 10 year old Nordic Tug's Cummins has 1659 hours on it, about 170 hours per season (New England). Not a high number of hours, but it's not sitting around from May to November, and it's well maintained. Even so, s..t happens and things wear out (water pump, alternator). I'd be more concerned if the boat was 20 years old or older. Needing to polish the fuel indicates an older boat sitting around. On older boats with low hours, engines and components rust out before wearing out.

Has the engine been properly maintained and did previous owner have a detailed maintenance log? You're in South Carolina. Is this a local boat? Does it get stored and winterized? It's common to winterize boats up here, and running the engine on the hard is a standard practice. Pop the cover off the raw water strainer, throw in a garden hose (some of us have a fresh water connector on the filter), and run the engine, just not at high or wide-open throttle. You can even engage the transmission, just make sure nobody's around the prop Belts and hose should be checked and replaced if necessary. Oil and filters, water pump impellers, yes. Based on age, heat exchangers, aftercoolers, and oil and fuel coolers need to be checked/cleaned. The list goes on. A good Volvo mechanic would know what to check.

This is more what I was looking for. I was looking for answers to what (if anything) that a marine mechanic would be able to do and tell me about the engines. I have a call in to the mechanic, and waiting for a return call.

The boat is in SC, and was winterized before pulling it. I did find that much out, it is a 1981.
It has been stored in a cattle barn on their farm since it was moved there.

 

[drb1025]

Might want to have a survey done, excluding an engine survey. If more than 10 years hoses belts heat exchanger, zincs, bottom paint cutlass bearing, shaft log, thru hulls also the dc and ac wiring.



Most can be done with the boat in the water and a diver.

What do you recommend regarding ac and dc wiring for a 10 year old boat?

 

[Hawgwash]

Tolly built a 34 from about 1970 until, I believe, 1992.
Volvo TMD40A was in production from 1976 to 1985.

So at the very best those engines are 30, at worst 40 years old.
A 30 to 40 year old engine with 1700 hours (less than 50 per year) that has sat for 2 years is something I would walk away from even if it would turn over and we haven't even addressed the volumes of posts on here about lack of parts for old Volvos.

Pay market for a 40 year old FG hull. Market being whatever you are willing to pay. There won't be a lineup or bidding war for it. Plus, it would seem like the owners/estate don't really know what it is.

 

[folivier]

Since it was stored in a barn for that long I would be concerned with mice/rats/vermin getting inside and messing up things. Look for droppings and other signs.
Just another thing to consider.

 

[BandB]

Since it was stored in a barn for that long I would be concerned with mice/rats/vermin getting inside and messing up things. Look for droppings and other signs.
Just another thing to consider.

They do very much like to gnaw through wires and also rubber.

 

[ddalme]

Mike
If you really like the boat, get a mechanic and have him ck the engines. Power up all the 110v/12v systems and ck them out. If satisfied buy it, but remember, a new or rebuilt engine and trans will run you over 20K plus $$$$ all the other related systems that have to be changed along with it. I own a '83 Volvo TAMD40B and I have not had any trouble getting parts although, I've only needed to change the circulating water pump, pump pulley, alt. adjusting brackets($850) and zincs-1500hrs when I bought it. My boat sat 4 years in the water, run once or twice a month in the slip when the marina owner thought about it. PO was in bad health. Soooo-make your offer accordingly. Their are lots of boats out there that you could do a honest sea trial, survey, etc. Determine how much work you want to put into it. With all that being said, I wouldn't buy it unless I could steal it.