Storing a Diesel

[Larry M]

Wow, I'm amazed to say the least. What is wrong with adding oil so it runs down from upper part of an engine that has been sitting for extended periods prior to start up? Conventional maybe not, but to call the man a fool?

 

[Marin]

RWidman

What book would you go to for storing a 75 to 80 year old Cord, Bugatti or Offenhauser? Or how about a 60 year old Ferrari? Or a 90 year old Durant etc.

Or even a 40 year old Ford Lehman 120? I haven't read the manuals for our engines cover to cover but I don't recall seeing anything in them about long term storage. There are accepted practices for engine storage, one of which is not to let a diesel sit for long periods of time with dirty oil in it. But a lot of older equipment doesn't have the level of detail in "the book" that things today have.

I still have the operators manuals for the first planes I ever flew, a Piper Cherokee 140 and 180 and then various Cessnas. These were all 1960s-1970s vintage airplanes. I also have the manual for the newest plane I've flown, a Cessna.Turbo 206. The manual for the 1968 C206 I flew a lot in Hawaii is a pamphlet compared to the manual for the Turbo 206, yet for all practical purposes they are the same plane. I'm sure most people here can come up with similar examples.

So "the book" has changed over the years and these days, whether it's because of lawyers and insurance companies or whatever, there is a far greater level of information and detail than there used to be. But assuming that there is a "book" for every piece of equipment ever made that explains everything you need to know about it is a bad assumption.

And we won't even get in to the decreasing levels of experience and understanding that are leading people into helplessness in the face of what used to be considered no-brainer situations. Like changing a tire or the coolant in their car. This despite the fact that the how-to information is today buried in that phone book sized manual that came with the car.

 

[rwidman]

Wow, I'm amazed to say the least. What is wrong with adding oil so it runs down from upper part of an engine that has been sitting for extended periods prior to start up? Conventional maybe not, but to call the man a fool?

If it was necessary, the manufacturer would have recommended it. In the meantime, what he didn't do was start the engine after changing the oil to get fresh oil throughout the engine. And of course there's the risk that he or someone else would just start it up with only half the needed amount of oil.

My point is, he somehow feels he knows more about the needs of the engine than the engineers who designed and built it.

 

[Northern Spy]

My point is, he somehow feels he knows more about the needs of the engine than the engineers who designed and built it.

No offense meant, but would I be correct in guessing that you are not an engineer?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Ron's got a really good point here and those that haven't got the knowledge to go their own way it is VERY smart to "read da book". But for those that want to experiment our boats are toys and we are captains.

Also not to be overlooked is the fact that much of the information in manuals and instruction books is ther'e to Protect THE MANUFACTURER in court. with most of the Ultralight engines I had .. the manufacturers said NOT to use synthetic lubricants but they were almost necessary. Anything a manufacturer recommends or specifies needs to be tested and ther'e are SO many things and methods out ther'e to use and test that their recommendations are very limited.

It's for us to choose. Better performance and having one's neck out and being on your own or follow da book and enjoy the security and comfort of probable guarantees. I'm kind of a half and half kind of guy. And what's important to me is that I don't consider myself a fool. However I'll admit I can't say I've never been a fool.

Sorry Spy .... I think he is an engineer.

 

[sunchaser]

Eric - Ron doesn't have a point, he was referring to Larry's post regarding antique gas engines where there is likely no book and common sense would intrude! Thread creep makes this a bit confuing to follow.

<MOD Split Post Content to Booster Rocket O-Ring Thread in Off Topic Forum>

 

[CPseudonym]

For those wishing to continue the booster rocket O-ring topic it has been moved to Off Topic.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s51/booster-rocket-o-rings-7976.html

 

[rwidman]

Eric - Ron doesn't have a point, he was referring to Larry's post regarding antique gas engines where there is likely no book and common sense would intrude! Thread creep makes this a bit confuing to follow.

Dude! It's a frickin' engine. Any book will work. Putting one half the oil in in the fall and the other half in the spring defies all logic.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Ron,

I've seen Tom several times and he is indeed a "Dude".

"any book" could get a guy into trouble but I think I see your point. General info re how to store an engine could be found in many places.

And I'm w you on the 1/2 & 1/2. See my previous and windy post.

 

[Brooksie]

Seasonal storage: I'd be more interested in inventing a fogging compound for diesels which would not cause them to run away.

1/2 & 1/2; not for me. You are not "prelubing" an engine by pouring in 1/2 the oil, it goes nowhere useful just down the return holes and into the pan (or in some cases just into the pan)
Prelubers are available and great claims are made for them by preventing dry starts. They are either electric pumps or accumulators that fill when the engine is running & discharge, into the oil gallery, the next time the start key is turned.
This is one I like AutoEngineLube Engine Oil Pre lube System Boats

 

[FF]

I'd be more interested in inventing a fogging compound for diesels which would not cause them to run away.

Its at NAPA , just use an intermittant spray.

 

[Brooksie]

I'd be more interested in inventing a fogging compound for diesels which would not cause them to run away.
Its at NAPA , just use an intermittant spray.

Any time I have tried commercial outboard fogging spray like CRC brand, it just causes the diesel to burn it and run on. What should I look for at NAPA?

 

[FF]

What should I look for at NAPA?

Look at the pushing end of your finger.

Start and stop the spray , let the engine run on it , it will still stay and protect the engine..

 

[rwidman]

I'm thinking that "fogging oil" isn't a lot different than diesel fuel. And since it's going to burn, it's not really "fogging".

My engines winter storage instructions are on the boat so I can't quote them and I don't have to winterize the boat so I've never followed them, but I don't think there's any mention of "fogging".

 

[Phil Fill]

He did not say how he added oil. On classic old cars the oil was added though the valve covers, and even on some newer cars. On the Perkins gen set engine the oil is added through the cover, and you can also on the 671. So if a person added oil though the valve cover then the oil would lube most of the engine as it makes its way down into the oil sump.

However, the another big concern, especially for 2 strokes is protecting the cylinders as one or more is always open. Many of the commercial old salts will bump/turn the engine to move the cylinders, pumps, impellors, bearing to a different location. When puting the 2 stroke OB away for the winter I will spray them down with WD-40 and even in the comparator while cranking. The, 1970, 140 HP merc OB is still running strong. However, I do not bump/turn them over when stored as they are in a heated dry storage area.

My diesel mechanic advised me to use WD 40 to prime/start the diesel engines, and also to bump/turn the engine every month or two. However, they both start so easy so I run them until the oil pressure comes up, 30 seconds every other month.

Then there is the discussion about cold starts vrs. warm starts, how oftern to start and for how long?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Good points Phill but I don't think much of the engine gets lubed by pouring oil down/through the valve cover. Only a small part of the valve gear will see any oil. And on some engines the camshaft won't get any.

 

[Brooksie]

I'm thinking that "fogging oil" isn't a lot different than diesel fuel. And since it's going to burn, it's not really "fogging".

My engines winter storage instructions are on the boat so I can't quote them and I don't have to winterize the boat so I've never followed them, but I don't think there's any mention of "fogging".

Agree that's what I thought, if it runs the engine (which it does) then it's burning, and not fogging. I thought FF was onto something different.
Question: Synthetic oil burn? Amsoil makes one.

 

[FF]

Engine lube oil is designed to be scraped off the cylinder in normal operation.

Its rapid drain down is why we should protect engines, synthetic is even worse , it drains quicker...

Weather some of it burns is not the question.

Fogging oil is designed to stick to the surface of the metal.

The fluid will protect the valves , cylinders etc , Esp if the engine is then sealed to constant air flow. Enough is left to do this while some does burn out.

"My engines winter storage instructions are on the boat so I can't quote them and I don't have to winterize the boat "

Most engine mfg have their service instructions on line,

Look for "out of service over 30 days" or simply seasonal storing in their index.

 

[Kayakeur]

Half-level oil half-fill warning

A sailor friend restores/maintains antique cars for a living. I asked what he does for extended lay ups since some of the cars are only driven annually. He drains the oil and changes the oil filter before a lay-up but only puts back half of the vehicles oil capacity. Then when the car is going out, he adds the remaining oil just before start up. He feels that by doing this he is pre lubing. I sounds like a good idea for boats. Any thoughts?

Regarding the putting in only half the oil pre-layup: sounds like setting up for somebody's accidental startup with only half oil level, leading to severe engine damage. Maybe if you taped a huge warning sign across steering wheel and put 3 quarts of oil on the front seat.

On a boat I personally would not; It's a setup for somebody to unknowingly start the engine and cause major damage.

 

[O C Diver]

Regarding the putting in only half the oil pre-layup: sounds like setting up for somebody's accidental startup with only half oil level, leading to severe engine damage. Maybe if you taped a huge warning sign across steering wheel and put 3 quarts of oil on the front seat.

On a boat I personally would not; It's a setup for somebody to unknowingly start the engine and cause major damage.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine starting an engine that sat for a week, month, or 6 months without checking all fluids, seacock, and other vitals before turning the key.

Ted

 

[TowLou]

If you are worried about condensation and can run power to the boat get a 1500w bubbler water jacket heater and when it’s time to start the motor disable your fuel pump and crank it to toss some oil around and build a little oil pressure. Some oil filters do siphon back in time I’ve seen that dropping a few filters without starting the motor for hopefully less of a mess. Upon ignition they do not have a high rpm like the 1800 or 3600 rpm gensets I see that sit sometimes 3 to 6 months without being started at all.