Terminal Trawler?

[sail4free]

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Can't be sure if there's a place for us here but we bought a 16-1/2' modified trihull ('70 Glastron) on a very nice Shoreline trailer for $150. For another $75, the boat is now registered for one year with a five-year tag on the trailer. With our Minnkota 30 clamped on, we're boating . . . kinda'. It's feeling like a shortcut to what is being called a "terminal trawler" = accommodations for older folks who are no longer in any hurry to get anywhere.
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As a retired carpenter, I've built an 8' x 15' deck and grafted it onto the top of this hull after removing the windshield and anything else which might get in the way. At this point we have identical fore/aft decks which measure 4'x8' *and* side decks which are 12" wide. This leaves what I've been calling a cabin "curb" -- an opening which is 6' wide and 7' long. The big plan is to build a cabin which is 2' above the deck with a flying wing to support two older PV panels (96 watt total) we have in storage. The cabin roof will be strong enough to permit lounging on the roof while leaning back against the wing support. (One can also sit on the front deck and lean back against the angled front cabin wall.)
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I built a new floor down inside for our full-size mattress and the open bow will get a porta-potti (strapped down per the arrangement in my prior 19' McGregor power/sailer). So far, reviews from those who have seen it have been quite positive but it's definitely a wee bit outside the dominant paradigm. Any ideas, constructive comments, or things we might should consider are welcome. The whole idea is for our 'overnighter' to remain trailerable -- useable on the trailer OR on the water -- and cheap enough that insurance will be a laughable option. I'm sure there are marinas who won't let us IN but it's a certainty we wouldn't want to be there anyway.
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sail4free
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[O C Diver]

Welcome to the forum? We have a simple rule around here: No pictures, it didn't happen, it doesn't exist. Post some pics; this one I got to see.

Ted

 

[Star0210]

Sounds interesting and it's got you on the water!

 

[dhmeissner]

Welcome to the forum? We have a simple rule around here: No pictures, it didn't happen, it doesn't exist. Post some pics; this one I got to see.

Ted

Welcome aboard!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Good for you. Go for it!

 

[Steve]

Welcome! Better put it in the lake once in a while to check stability as you build onto it it sounds like it might get top heavy. We do see similar around here on the inland waters usually used as duck hunting or fishing camps sometimes pontoons added for stability. Enjoy it.

 

[psneeld]

I remember a nice article from a now long gone magazine called The Small Boat Journal back in the 80s.

It was to me the best small vessel (say under 30 feet) magazine ever published...think it morphed into Boating mag.

The article was about an older couple (want to say late 60s or 70s) that transformed an early 21 or 24 Carolina Skiff ( or equivalent) into a fully covered camper at night and open boat with bimini by day. Every nook was dually functioning and looked like a really nice mobile base camp setup.

I believe their goal was the loop...but may have just been extended cruising.

As long as you are comfortable in most ways...the boat doesn't matter all that much. Good luck!

 

[sail4free]

Welcome to the forum? We have a simple rule around here: No pictures, it didn't happen, it doesn't exist. Post some pics; this one I got to see.

Ted

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Can anyone walk me through how to post pics again -- afraid I've slipped down the learning curve.
In the meantime, there are several pics of the boat here on our travel blog:
Building Our Dream Boat | Sailing On Dry Land
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sail4free
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[sail4free]

Welcome! Better put it in the lake once in a while to check stability as you build onto it it sounds like it might get top heavy. We do see similar around here on the inland waters usually used as duck hunting or fishing camps sometimes pontoons added for stability. Enjoy it.

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After we got the deck framed up and the two 4'x8' 1/2" BCX plywood decks screwed down, we did a "test float" and she sits fairly level in the water (maybe a little higher in the front) -- measures 20" from the bottom of the deck frame to the water. We got stopped by the water cops for a safety inspection and they never said a word about our "upgrade". :lol:
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The stock boat weighs less than 800 pounds but it's rated to hold six adults averaging 150 pounds. Our cabin framing will be 2x2s with 1/4" ply on the walls; 1/2" ply for the roof -- hope we're keeping it all relatively lightweight. It is a 'modified' tri-hull so that keeps it less tippy side to side. We took a bunch of people for a short ride one day after the test float and the boat seemed even more stable on the water with the added weight. And, of course, our speed is *very* limited at this point with 1/3 of one horsepower -- couldn't make a wake if we wanted to. The original hull is 6' wide so we've only added one foot on each side. I *really* need to get a swim ladder -- dove in one day and had a heckuva time getting back on the boat! Some folks slowed down and drove up close. I thought they were checking to see if I needed help but my GLW assures me they were just checking out the boat. The cabin is pretty well centered fore/aft with a slight bit more weight aft but I'm thinking a little high in the front at rest is okay.
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You can see a rough profile drawing of the big plan here:
Building Our Dream Boat | Sailing On Dry Land
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sail4free
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[CPseudonym]

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s22/set-up-your-account-|-help-tips-etc-5739.html

Post #6

 

[FlyWright]

Don't mean to be negative, but this project has all the trappings of an unsafe boat. Overloaded with lumber, top heavy, under-powered, unstable and dangerous. Personally, I'd hesitate to float it in a mill pond for fear of sinking. No doubt, trailering it will be an adventure, too. I sure wouldn't want to cruise or sleep on a vessel like this.

Terminal may be an accurate name as it might be the last boat you'll ever own, but I'm not sure where "trawler' fits. I would strongly caution against this.

 

[sail4free]

I remember a nice article from a now long gone magazine called The Small Boat Journal back in the 80s.

The article was about an older couple (want to say late 60s or 70s) that transformed an early 21 or 24 Carolina Skiff ( or equivalent) into a fully covered camper at night and open boat with bimini by day. Every nook was dually functioning and looked like a really nice mobile base camp setup.

I believe their goal was the loop...but may have just been extended cruising.

As long as you are comfortable in most ways...the boat doesn't matter all that much. Good luck!

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Thanks! I learned about "Terminal Trawlers" from DuckWorks Magazine (online):
Duckworks - Making a Terminal Trawler
Some keep a sail or two for when the sailing is easy -- or to supplement a small outboard to save fuel or go faster -- some remove ALL the sail rigging and rely only on a small outboard -- usually in the 10 to 25 HP range. But without a mast, these de-masted sailboat hulls tend to self-right far too quickly and uncomfortably. Some owners reduce ballast to compensate . . . I thought, "Why not begin with a boat which has no rigging or ballast?" but if we had found a comparable deal on a sailboat, we would have gone that route too.
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It's really quite amazing how many "dead" fiberglass boats there are in marinas these days -- hard to believe that folks are paying hundreds of dollars a month for nothing? When you see 2' of crud hanging down off a hull, you know that boat hasn't been out in a good long while. Many of 'em must feel stuck because they don't have a trailer or maybe they'd drag it home, cut it up with a sawzall and feed a bit of it each week into their trash can. Perhaps they're paying rent on a dream (as I did with a houseboat for many years) that -- most likely -- will never come true (no law against it). Some folks have found old de-masted sailboats in dry dock for FREE -- a great foundation for a Terminal Trawler. One couple I know have a 34' catamaran which they've sailed for years. Now they're older and tend to just put around the harbor with their small outboard, but it keeps 'em on the water and surely at least half the fun is just being out there -- even if your boat is little more than a floating dock.
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sail4free
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[CPseudonym]

After reading your blog a bit the "terminal trawler" concept is appealing in many ways, especially for inland river and lake boating but your particular project seems a bit overly ambitious. Below are a couple of photos we are drawing inspiration from.







There's a few photos in the interesting boat thread of a jon boat converted with a lowish profile cabin that demonstrate the concept well. Cannot find it now but another member has started a thread for converting an 18ish foot sailboat too. Good luck with your project.

 

[clynn]

An old pontoon frame seems a much better option to build upon. I see where you're going, but I would be very concerned about stability. Even in a calm lake, a large wake could cause you to capsize.

 

[sail4free]

Don't mean to be negative, but this project has all the trappings of an unsafe boat. Overloaded with lumber, top heavy, under-powered, unstable and dangerous. Personally, I'd hesitate to float it in a mill pond for fear of sinking. No doubt, trailering it will be an adventure, too. I sure wouldn't want to cruise or sleep on a vessel like this.

Terminal may be an accurate name as it might be the last boat you'll ever own, but I'm not sure where "trawler' fits. I would strongly caution against this.

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We have considered that *IF* it proves to be "top heavy" we have the ability to flood the foam under the original flat floor. Before we plugged the lower two outboard mounting holes, we were amazed to see how much water we could take on -- water which disappeared into the foam under the floor only to be seen again when we pulled the plug with her on the trailer. One day a big boat idling nearby made a monster wake and I nosed our girl into it. I thought the front deck would take some water but she popped up just in time and the front deck stayed dry. Yet, clearly, a project like this is only intended for protected water though we do plan to float her down the Colorado river north of Lake Havasu City, AZ (a 60 mile run) where we camped many nights along the river last winter.
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We take your comments seriously though and will keep our life vests handy. IIRC, the hull is rated to haul 1,200 pounds -- all in = outboard motor, occupants, gear, batteries, fuel, etc. I'm quite sure we'll be well under that limit. The original hull weighs less than 800 pounds and the trailer is rated to haul 2,000 pounds. I think we're gonna' be okay but I guess time will tell? We have trailered it quite a bit already -- no issues so far -- easy breezy compared to towing the 33' fifth wheel which is our fulltime residence with our 2000 F350 and its mighty 7.3 diesel engine. When I consider "top heavy" I think about those massive cruise ships -- all those floors above the drink and relatively little below the water line . . . how do they get away with that? When they're not "showboating" too close to the shore that is. We do hope to upgrade the power -- something small we can use the existing (?rack and pinion?) single steering cable on -- maybe 25 HP? (And we've kept the built-in fuel tank.) That way, if it's rough, at least we -- and our weight -- can be low and below the deck.
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sail4free
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[CPseudonym]

Cruise ships "get away with it" because they're typically designed by an experienced team of naval architects and engineers. As well as inspected by a class society of some sort.

Lacking that a willingness to change course in the process of the build is a good thing. My wife found this picture on Pinterest that I believe to be a Glasspar or Glastron.

 

[sail4free]

Cruise ships "get away with it" because they're typically designed by an experienced team of naval architects and engineers. As well as inspected by a class society of some sort.

Lacking that a willingness to change course in the process of the build is a good thing. My wife found this picture on Pinterest that I believe to be a Glasspar or Glastron.

View attachment 54234

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That's interesting -- I found that image too and it's the *only* one I've ever found online that is anything close to what we're doing. As it turns out, it looks like they're using the same '70 vintage Glastron tri-hull that we are . . . same paint scheme . . . same color! But our cabin will only stick up above the hull about half of the one pictured -- less exposure to side wind. I also think the weight of our cabin is more centered fore/aft than the one in the picture. The hull is about 2' deep so we'll only have 4' of headroom inside -- minus the thickness of the full-size mattress on the floor -- plenty of room for sleeping and crawling around.
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sail4free
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[sail4free]

After reading your blog a bit the "terminal trawler" concept is appealing in many ways, especially for inland river and lake boating but your particular project seems a bit overly ambitious. Below are a couple of photos we are drawing inspiration from.

There's a few photos in the interesting boat thread of a jon boat converted with a lowish profile cabin that demonstrate the concept well. Cannot find it now but another member has started a thread for converting an 18ish foot sailboat too. Good luck with your project.

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I'm familiar with that top image -- think I own all of Lloyd Kahn's books.
That last image has full-height sidewalls -- seems like that would present a lot of "sail" for side wind. I do like the flat bottom boats = able to get up in those great places were most boats fear to tread. Over at 'Shanty Boats and Living Lazy on the Water' (a facebook group), there is an 18' (guessing) ski boat that a couple from NZ converted to an enclosed mini-houseboat . . . in their words, "it used to be a ski boat called 'moovit' with 140hp. we rescued it after it sank, added the back off a ute, & fitted full headroom shower/toilet, double bed, double sink, replaced the 140 with a 15, & scrubbed the 'vit' off the name..... now we use it as a mini houseboat in our local national park, here in NZ."
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Their cabin is MUCH larger than ours -- leaving only a small foredeck and no aft deck at all. Surely they get wind and foul weather in NZ too, eh? They only have 15 HP and they steer it with a stick! :lol:
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sail4free
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[sail4free]

An old pontoon frame seems a much better option to build upon. I see where you're going, but I would be very concerned about stability. Even in a calm lake, a large wake could cause you to capsize.

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In many ways it would be easier to build on an old pontoon frame. Not long ago, one could buy them (even on a trailer) in the $1,500 to $2,000 range but with the price increases for steel and aluminum, a used trailer alone goes for that much! And the salvage value of the aluminum itself keeps the old pontoon frames more valuable than most poor white boys like me wanna' pay.
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But even pontoon boats aren't as 'stable' as many people think. If you get hit from the side with rollers that are spaced just right, one pontoon can be on a high spot and the other pontoon will be in the valley (called "the pontoon effect") causing the craft to list twice as bad as one would expect. This is one reason why faster (and more expensive) pontoon boats have a third hull in the middle. A tri-hull really is more stable and less tippy side-to-side than a V hull . . . the difference is readily apparent in a smaller boat.
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sail4free
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[sail4free]

An old pontoon frame seems a much better option to build upon. I see where you're going, but I would be very concerned about stability. Even in a calm lake, a large wake could cause you to capsize.

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Part of this approach is that if it doesn't work -- or even if it does -- I can pull eight carriage bolts and lift the whole construct (deck *and* cabin) up off the Glastron hull (easily sell that hull and trailer for more than the $150 we paid) and do something else with what I've built. I could put walls under it to morph into a small houseboat with a ladder up to the deck cum roof -- using pontoons (used or homebuilt) for flotation -- or build a 4' deep flat-bottom plywood hull and cover it with fiberglass. But these options cost quite a bit of money that I don't have to play with. Doing it the way we're doing it gets us ON the water at very low cost and purely 'pay as we go' -- no charges for interest, insurance, marina fees or storage, etc.
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I've also considered adding outriggers if they prove to be needed but I doubt they will. The cabin is no wider than the original hull and the weight of the empty side decks themselves is negligible. Using the boat thus far, it seems very stable side to side. If I sit on a side deck, my 200 pounds causes the boat to list a bit but not as much as you might think -- and I doubt that extra 12" provides much leverage. We have leisurely crossed our lake (Lucky Peak -- near Boise, ID) several times -- just letting the wind blow us along while sitting in our comfy lawn chairs (down inside the hull) and she's steady as can be. Sometimes I'll motor into the wind and let the wind blow us back to the dock -- great fun and less likely we'll get in trouble if the battery for the trolling motor gets weak.
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sail4free
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[healhustler]

Welcome! Better put it in the lake once in a while to check stability as you build onto it it sounds like it might get top heavy. We do see similar around here on the inland waters usually used as duck hunting or fishing camps sometimes pontoons added for stability. Enjoy it.

The first photo below is a trawler cabin built on what I was told to be a Welcraft hull, maybe 26 ft. or so. It may still be sitting in Indiantown, FL where I took this photo. It was a neat thing even though the interior was unfinished and it had a jack plate for two good sized outboards out back. The first time I saw it, the builder was parked on the shoulder of the road with two flat tires on one side. The boat nearly came off the trailer from the event, but considering the profile of a Welcraft run-about, that's a awful lot of fiberglass above the water line. I never saw it in the water.

The second and third photo was how a practical, albeit less romantic, trawlette should be done. Pontoons or cat hull provide a stable platform in the shallows, lightweight insulated portable building plopped right on the deck with A/C, small genset, a berth or two, head, small galley, a decent outboard and enough rear deck to step out for docking or maybe troll the lake or river, plus a nice deck out front for cruising in the breeze and throwing a line off the side while comfortably seated. The photos were taken in Okeechobee, FL where a machine like this is highly appreciated. Hose it off after the trip.

 

[sail4free]

The second and third photo was how a practical, albeit less romantic, trawlette should be done. Pontoons or cat hull provide a stable platform in the shallows, lightweight insulated portable building plopped right on the deck with A/C, small genset, a berth or two, head, small galley, a decent outboard and enough rear deck to step out for docking or maybe troll the lake or river, plus a nice deck out front for cruising in the breeze and throwing a line off the side while comfortably seated. The photos were taken in Okeechobee, FL where a machine like this is highly appreciated. Hose it off after the trip.

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Is the genset to run the AC? We live fulltime in our fifth wheel but we're committed to living offgrid and meet all our power needs from solar. We use propane for the reefer and the stove but if it gets cold enough to need the furnace OR hot enough to need AC, we're moving! Before I bought the new 19' McGregor power/sailer I had a steel hulled party barge -- nothing on the deck but a steering station (no seat) and a bench across the back end of it -- 25 HP outboard and maybe 5 knots full out. The original owner had no trailer for it and simply drug it up out of the Snake River (Idaho) with a tractor for the winter months and pushed it back into the drink come spring. Over time the hulls developed pin holes and would no longer hold the low pressure they were designed for to keep the water out. As a 'fix', he cut "port holes" in the hulls as needed and had them completely filled with polyurethane spray foam.
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I think the dang thing was pretty much unsinkable but it did (over the course of a season) ride lower and lower in the water. For winter storage, I cranked the trailer tongue up as high as it would go and pulled the hull drain plugs. Any day above freezing, it would slowly drip, drip and by spring we were floating high and dry again. We had a ton of fun on that old sled -- used to charge the sandy shore as fast as she would go (not very fast ) and pull the outboard up at the last second, and then step off through the middle gate in front onto dry land.
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sail4free
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[healhustler]

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Is the genset to run the AC?

Genset was a portable Honda 2000, which ran the 5000 BTU window unit and charged two golf cart batteries for everything else. The flat roof would allow 6-8 150 watt solar panels though.

Here's two more shots of pontoon trawlettes that looked like fun. I don't know anything about the first one, but the second was right nearby in northern Longboat Key. Some of these ''toons", as they call them, are getting pretty expensive, but around here in Sarasota Bay, it's an ideal platform for calm-water exploring the rivers, canals and hanging out at the local sandbars.

 

[sail4free]

Some of these ''toons", as they call them, are getting pretty expensive, but around here in Sarasota Bay, it's an ideal platform for calm-water exploring the rivers, canals and hanging out at the local sandbars.

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My Dad was a truck driver and one of the many places we lived quite a bit longer than the others was San Pedro, CA. I was the oldest of us kids and on some of his days off, we'd check out the local marinas -- talk with folks in dry dock, etc. We met a few old salts on the water who were lucky enough to have shore power to keep their pumps running. Otherwise their boats would've sunk long ago. I remember the dry docks with their families being much like living in a trailer park except they lived on boats! The school bus stopped out front by the mailboxes.
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More than anything else, I suppose this exposure planted the seed for my love of boats and being on the water. We nurtured a dream of moving our family of seven kids(!) onto an old fishing boat which had been painted up real nice inside and out. My Dad explained we could build bunks for everyone down below where the fish used to get packed on ice. I'm sure that's a move which would have instantly endeared us to all our floating neighbors. :lol: He actually bought a converted lifeboat in dry dock -- only entrance was through a round access hatch in the fore deck -- so we scraped on that thing for a while. That dream never materialized in my youth but I still have a strong desire to live on the water. A trailerable houseboat -- something big enough we could live in full time -- would IMHO be the best of both worlds.
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I have an older Lance truck camper which is very nice inside but the framing for the extended cabover has failed and I can no longer use it as a truck camper. I'd relish the opportunity to convert it into a houseboat. It already has two 'kittie kondos' built into it as I lived in it for a time before I got married this last time and I stored the cats in their kondos as night. An old pontoon frame would make a good foundation but two flat-bottomed catamaran-style hulls could be even better = less draft. The camper currently sits on an overbuilt 6'x10' utility trailer but the bonehead who built it put the axle in the exact fore/aft center. I suppose it could be morphed into a houseboat trailer -- it's certainly strong enough but, to be functional, the hulls would need to be at least 20' long and 28' would be better -- quite a project to consider. In addition to getting a trailer, that was another reason for our move to a "terminal trawler" = getting a hull that we could register without having to jump through all the hoops to register a "homemade" boat.
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sail4free
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[DHeckrotte]

We passed on this one:

 

[sail4free]

We passed on this one:

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I can see why . . . something about that layout just ain't quite right . . . and those funky "decorations" are out of place too -- like trying to put lipstick on a pig
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sail4free
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[Shrew]

What is the total weight of the lumber and construction materials being added?

That boat is going to have a total capacity of Gear, people and motor of around 1,400 lbs. Typically that would be around 1,000lbs of people and 400lbs of motor and gear.

If two adult people weigh a combined 350lbs, this gives you roughly 1,050 lbs for everything ELSE on the boat. That's just over 1,000lbs for the superstructure and everything you put on the boat for gear.

Extending the superstructure beam beyond the gunnels is going to impose inherent instability in the vessel.

 

[sail4free]

What is the total weight of the lumber and construction materials being added?

That boat is going to have a total capacity of Gear, people and motor of around 1,400 lbs. Typically that would be around 1,000lbs of people and 400lbs of motor and gear.

If two adult people weigh a combined 350lbs, this gives you roughly 1,050 lbs for everything ELSE on the boat. That's just over 1,000lbs for the superstructure and everything you put on the boat for gear.

We'll have to weigh it when we're done to know for sure, but's it hard to imagine we're adding much more weight than that to the boat. Our friends are letting us try their (?9.8?) HP outboard (short shaft -- 2 stroke) and a plastic tank. If it still runs and works for us, we'll set up a payment plan. Otherwise we'll have the weight of two RV/Marine batts and the Minnkota 30 electric trolling motor.

Extending the superstructure beam beyond the gunnels is going to impose inherent instability in the vessel.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this variable and not having much luck with it. The deck extends one foot wider (down each side) than the original boat width but there's nothing out there on those side decks; certainly not while under way. The added-on cabin shell will be no wider than the original boat, so it seems to me that virtually all added weight will bear down vertically as if the side decks aren't even there. In a powerful side wind, I can see how the extensions (+/- 15 square feet on either side) could catch more air and add to any flipping potential but, beyond that, I'm just not understanding other forces which might make the vessel inherently unstable.
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sail4free
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