Other: Thinking of buying a 1965 Grand Banks

[Benthic2]

It might just be they can't find a buyer for their wooden boats and are stuck with them !

 

[gaston]

It might just be they can't find a buyer for their wooden boats and are stuck with them !

No I don't think that's the case I think they are more connected to the water tradesmen ,perfectionists, boating is there passion not like glass boat owners where the boat is just a disposable implement .

 

[what_barnacles]

the 36' GB thats for sale on our dock turned down $50K. The mechanic that delivered it said 50G's worth of mahogany planking was needed to redo the hull bottom. Last time I looked in it, it had water up to the top of the stringers because the bilge pumps quit.

 

[Acheron2010]

Grand Banks Owner's Resources

Grand Banks For Sale - Grand Banks Trawlers -Grand Banks MLS

 

[Marlinmike]

As always TF contributors really educate those looking for answers. From my brief experience working on a friends wooden boat what was stated is spot on.

Those qualified to buy a wood boat know not to even ask that question as they already know the answer, or should I say the hard to explain answer.

 

[Xlantic]

Here is an old (and long) post from the Grand Banks Owners forum in defence of wooden boats:

Mike, Normally, I don't like to respond to a posting in an argumentive manner, but, in this case, I simply can't resist.

I gather from your posting, that you have never owned a wooden boat and, therefore, can't speak to the issues from the point of view of personal experience. You can't possibly get an accurate comparison of wood versus fiberglass by talking to wood boat owners.

Here at Oak harbor Boat Works, we have worked on all types of boats, wood, fiberglass, steel and aluminum. I'll confine this rebuttal to wood versus fiberglass. Generally speaking, we have replaced more bad wood on fiberglass boats than we have on wood boats. Virtually all fiberglass boats have a good deal of wood in them and wood encapsulated in fiberglass is rot waiting to happen. Not if, but, when. Every fastener through the deck and cabin side is an entry for water to get into the wood that invariably reinforces and backs up the fiberglass for fastening into. Fiberglass boats are not a perfect, no maintenance type of boat. The wood used in their construction is usually inferior to the wood used in wood boats.

If you talk to a lot of wood boat owners, I'm sure you can find plenty of horror tales about all the work it takes to maintain a wood boat. However, I truly believe that what you are really hearing is that it takes a lot of effort to restore a wood boat that has not been properly maintained. It is true that it is a lot of effort to restore a wood boat......or a fiberglass boat, for that matter. It's kind of like restoring/remodeling a house. Building a new one is often easier and less expensive.

If you were to ask an owner of a wood boat that didn't have deferred maintenance and was truly in excellent condition, I don't believe you would hear the same answers to your questions. If you were to compare the maintenance requirements to properly maintain a wood boat versus a fiberglass boat that are basically identical and in excellent condition, I believe you would be surprised to discover that a wood boat actually requires less maintenance than a fiberglass boat. Grand Banks is a good example for comparison because they built basically the same boat in wood and in fiberglass.

For example, a fiberglass boat with a gelcoat finish and covered moorage will have to be polished and waxed at least once a year to maintain gloss and keep the gelcoat from oxidizing. Outside moorage and southern climates will require two or more sessions per year. A wood boat with painted surfaces and covered moorage will probably have to have a fresh coat of paint on the hull every 4 to 6 years, the house every 3 to 4 years and the flybridge every 2 to 3 years. We won't compare the varnished teak as it doesn't know if it's on a wood or a fiberglass boat, it's the same. Looking at a 36' Grand Banks, it would probably take a day to a day and a half to polish and wax (or poly) the hull from the cap rail down to the boot stripe. Over 5 years, that's 5 to 7.5 man days to maintain the hull. We won't discuss hull repairs from scrapes and gouges in docking, we'll call that a wash, even though the time to repair wood is less. The time to prep and apply a fresh coat of paint on the hull of a woodie is approximately two days or a little less, every, say, 5 years. In comparison, that's 5 to 7.5 man days to maintain a fiberglass hull versus 2 man days to maintain a wood hull over a five year period.

The comparison for the house is roughly 10 days over five years for fiberglass and 6 days for wood. For the flybridge, it's roughly 5 days every 5 years for fiberglass and 5 days for wood, a wash.

The decks are also easier to maintain on a wood GB. They are 7/8" thick and extend out over the hull planking versus a nominal 5/8" thick on a fiberglass boat and they also have gutters for water drainage which allows the water to attack the teak to fiberglass seal directly.

The teak trim and windows are about equal in maintenance requirements, although I believe the bedding lasts longer on the wood boats than the sealants on fiberglass boats.

You don't have to be concerned about hull blisters on a wood boat, but, it is definitely a concern with fiberglass, and expensive to repair, if necessary.

Damaged wood can be repaired back to original specifications. Fiberglass repairs are never as strong as the original construction.

Wood boats are warmer, drier, quieter and seem to have a lower center of gravity, hence, a better sea ride.

I honestly don't know of a single area where a fiberglass boat is superior to a wood boat. Most are designed to imitate a wood boat.

We recently had a wood 32' Grand Banks owner cut the red entrance bouy to the main channel coming into Oak Harbor Bay and hit a rock at low tide going at full cruising speed of roughly 7.5 to 8 knots. He hit the rock squarely just below the water line and the rock didn't move. He said the boat leaped into the air about 8 to 10 feet and came down to rest on the rock about halfway down the keel. They hit so hard that he was thrown into the helm wheel and injured his chest area and broke up the teak helm wheel. Fortunately, the tide was coming in and after the boat was refloated, they had virtually no water coming in and the damage was mostly cosmetic on the hull. Sure, there is a lot of crushed wood and some damage to the house and interior cabinets where shifting occurred, but, the boat came home on her own power, actually, she could have gone almost anywhere required without repairs. I'm quite sure that a fiberglass boat would have sunk, or at least, suffered a lot more hull damage.

I've gotten kind of wordy here, so I'll close with the fact that if I were to build a new personal boat today under 75', she would be wood. Nothing else comes close. The only reason we have so many fiberglass boats today is because it is an inexpensive way to construct boats with unskilled labor in a factory environment. Wood does require more skill to build, although, it would be interesting to see how wood boats could be built in a factory environment with computer aided machinery and new methods of finishing using unskilled labor.

In general, covered moorage will cut your maintenance requirements in half for wood or fiberglass.

Good luck, Bob Lowe

IAGBO :: Log in

 

[sdowney717]

I have wooden Egg Harbor 37 sedan cruiser which I did extensive hull repair myself, and is in good shape. I can DIY everything it might need.

I tell you a wood boat has a feeling of natural life to it that I don't get from being in a fiberglass polyester resin boat. I would as I get older prefer a fiberglass boat, but it will not be the same feeling.

Some of the marinas here don't want your business if you have a wood boat.

 

[Blissboat]

My surveyor emphasizes that, once a boat reaches a certain age, it matters less how well it was built than how well it's been maintained. I generally find myself considering boats that are thirty-plus years old, so I want to understand the boat's history - e.g., who, where and for how long has it had the same boat husband.

Recently I came close to buying a forty-nine year old wooden "trawler" style motor cruiser. Its designer and builder are/were royalty in American yachting. When new, the boat's credentials were beyond impeccable. As the asking price kept dropping, I fell into a swoon. But, red flags unfurled one by one as I learned that: it was now on its fifth owner; its present owner had kept it in Florida waters for the past four years; it had recent hull paint (which admittedly looked great); no one knew whether it had ever been re-fastened nor what material the existing fasteners were; and the broker refused to let me question the seller directly ("that's not how I do business," he fumed, self-righteously). Stated reason for selling: "doesn't use." Secondary explanation: "He's spent a lot of money on it."

There were a lot of unknowables. But, even if you know all there is to know, it seems a boat like that needs an owner who loves it as much as I do, and who has the tools, skills, and facility to maintain it, or who can leave his checkbook open.

 

[sdowney717]

My surveyor emphasizes that, once a boat reaches a certain age, it matters less how well it was built than how well it's been maintained. I generally find myself considering boats that are thirty-plus years old, so I want to understand the boat's history - e.g., who, where and for how long has it had the same boat husband.

Recently I came close to buying a forty-nine year old wooden "trawler" style motor cruiser. Its designer and builder are/were royalty in American yachting. When new, the boat's credentials were beyond impeccable. As the asking price kept dropping, I fell into a swoon. But, red flags unfurled one by one as I learned that: it was now on its fifth owner; its present owner had kept it in Florida waters for the past four years; it had recent hull paint (which admittedly looked great); no one knew whether it had ever been re-fastened nor what material the existing fasteners were; and the broker refused to let me question the seller directly ("that's not how I do business," he fumed, self-righteously). Stated reason for selling: "doesn't use." Secondary explanation: "He's spent a lot of money on it."

There were a lot of unknowables. But, even if you know all there is to know, it seems a boat like that needs an owner who loves it as much as I do, and who has the tools, skills, and facility to maintain it, or who can leave his checkbook open.

My hull rebuild involved refastening with new bigger square drive bronze screws. And some new framing. I found the easiest fix was to rebuild the hull in quarters, I pulled off all the planks from the waterline down and renewed the framing a quarter of the hull at a time. for the framing repairs, I selected myself PT wood from larger boards and recut the wood. I had some cracked frames at the turn of the bilge, which instead of sistering, I replaced, or backed up with framing glued clamped and screwed on top the old framing. Sort of like carved gussets of much larger wood like you find in boats using sawn frames vesus bent frames.

I found some framing was sound yet the wood around the screw holes rotten. Easiest repair is cut out all suspect bad wood and replace with new. All the wood I coated with Sani Tred-Permaflex a polyurethane coating. Today I would not use that. I think it would be cheaper and better to use a flowable polyurethane Sikaflex. I did that to seal the inner hull. The outer hull I also sealed completely using Permaflex and or Loctite S30 Black PL.

2005 I used the yellow Permaflex, in 2014 I used the Loctite Black PL.
I prefer the Loctite as it is extremely easy to use, it works fine and easy to get, no drips. Permaflex stuck well to the mahogany planks, but not the oak keel and permaflex drips on you painted upside down. The seams were all cleaned and I used 30% sawdust mixed with Loctite PL premium poly construction adhesive.
For the Loctite black PL, I mixed in 30% milled fibers and spread it on the hull using a 6 inch putty knife. the coating is about 1/8 inch thick, it is like having a rubber tire on the bottom of the boat. It is really tough, strong, yet can stretch with the wood. With all the repairs and coatings, this hull is stronger than new.










upload pictures online

 

[GoneFarrell]

Those qualified to buy a wood boat know not to even ask that question as they already know the answer, or should I say the hard to explain answer.

So true, so true.

All the early boats I learned on were wood; how to run them, how to fix them.

I built a sliding seat rowboat many years ago, its been all over the place and been in the Port Townsend wood boat show twice (the white one in foreground)....

I've crewed on the big schooner in the background too, the Adventress. Built 1912, double-planked, 110 feet of joy at the helm. What a boat!

My present boat has more than enough wood to keep me interested/busy.

When guests come aboard, they never say "nice fiberglass." I see them looking at the finished rails, windows, doors and the teak interior. That is also part of the "hard to explain answer" that Marlin refers to.

 

[what_barnacles]

now thats a neat looking boat.