Time for a break from working on the boat.

[Phuket]

We have made a lot of progress on the trawler conversion but I feel it is time to take a little break and use it a bit before the last push. *Plus I need to stop spending for a while and catch up on neglected things like kids health insurance! *

Yesterday I took it out of the marina and back down to the bay where she normally lives on a mooring. *Kids had fun and two of the guys that have been working on it came along for the day with a freind each. *Here are some pics.

 

[Codger2]

What a great job you've done! Now, that's what I call "Trawlering!"

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Nice!* Be careful about the kids on what looks like the swim platform, the MAF's (Mothers Against Fun) will getcha.

 

[Phuket]

Thanks, their mum was actually asleep inside at that point. *But it would be me that would have to jump in and get them...........Anyway they have a healthy fear of falling in, especially the littlest one and they hold TIGHT

 

[Marin]

Really neat and unique boat, Leon. Did everything run and operate as you'd hoped it would on your run home?

 

[Phuket]

Hi Marin, thanks for the feedback.* So far there are very few systems on the boat and most of the last series of work has been carpentry and painting.* Engine and drive train are working well, I now have a decent complement of gauges to monitor the engine and that lets me push it a bit a more, hydraulic steering is great now.* One thing we did was move the battery switches and now the engine battery struggles so I have to check and see if it is a poor connection or voltage drop due to longer cables.* There is still a lot of wiring to do now and also fit sink and cook top in the galley.* But I want to keep it on the mooring and use it weekends for the next few weeks.
Cheers, Leon.

 

[Marin]

I have a question about your boat's design. The bow is very high for the overall length of the boat. Are the waters in which this type of boat would have worked for a living rough enough to have caused this design feature to evolve? Or is it primarily an aesthetic feature that evolved over time?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Iv'e been wondering the same thing for some time. I know that any fish boat where the fisherman needs to lean over the side and work close to the water has a low freeboard. Real lobster boats come to mind. In a way fish boats don't have aesthetic features. There's nothing there that's not needed. But fishermen are a bit like birds** ..* they follow the flock. If it already has evolved that most fishermen have a Forfjord anchor on their bow, or an aluminum/hydraulic anchor winch a newcomer will do the same and perhaps it's mostly so he will become part of the group by employing such equipment. Also there's the old attitude that if it's good enough for old Hans Bjorg it's for darn sure good enough for me. Saves time on research. And then there's the attitude that if it looks right it brobably is right. Marin's new anchor winch wouldn't look right on a fish boat and Walts chrome Bruce anchor would humor the local fishermen so much that I'm afraid they would be falling off the dock laughing but most or all of us think it's beautiful or at least "awesome". One catches more fish fishing than researching equipment. And then there's the very practical and sage attitude that when most of the guys in the fleet have it or do it it's been proven in action and a guy just can't go wrong with it. Some fish boats have been the same for many decades and others are evolving constantly and have been since the 30s or longer. Bristol Bay gillnetters started out with sails and not too long ago 500 hp was vouge. I'll bet Leon's boat evolved over time and never had a designer that has a name. A fisherman gets w a builder and says "most other boats seem to have a problem in following seas w a full load of fish so lets make her a bit fuller in the stern to carry the weight". If it worked well it would be repeated and a change in the type would be implemented but very few would notice the difference. Conversly .. when they took the net reel off the stern of the gillnetter and put it on the bow everyone noticed. Well Leon, we've noticed your bow.

Eric Henning

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 14th of August 2009 09:46:28 AM

 

[Marin]

Eric----

Your theory of the evolution of fishing boat shapes has a lot of*merit, I think. I don't necessarily agree with the theory that fishing boats don't have aesthetics. Granted, their basic form is dictated by the jobs they are being built to do, but sit in a warfside eatery in Maine or Prince Edward Island and listen to the conversations among the lobstermen and you will find that the appearance and lines of a working boat are still a major deal to them. You hear a lot of "Have you seen Pete's new boat yet? God, that thing is beautiful. The curve of the bow on that thing makes me want to cream my jeans." (An actual comment I remember for obvious reasons.)

Virtually all the PEI boats have a section of reverse sheer just aft of the bow. The boats I saw in Maine do not have this, their hulls are like Carey's (of this forum) in that it is one unbroken curve from stem to stern. When we stopped in Maine again on our way back from PEI, a lobsterman we spent a bit of time with looked at some of my pictures of the PEI boats and said he didn't understand why their boats had that "weird" reverse curve at the bow (I don't either--- I don't find it very good looking).

So I think aesthetics is still important in fishboat design and is appreciated when it's there. However aesthetics are probably increasingly over-ridden by the reality of*economics.* It's easier, faster, and cheaper to cut a straight line than a curved one, that sort of thing.

-- Edited by Marin on Friday 14th of August 2009 01:34:21 PM

 

[Nomad Willy]

OK Marin,
You got me fair and square. I should check my jeans no? I sure get tired of these grey aluminum things that are so popular up here. Even Navy grey looks better than the unfinished aluminum. I even agree w you on the reverse curve fwd sheer line. Some are beautiful but not the ones you saw at PEI.
Speaking of beauty I finally figured out why you guys are so goofy about the Flemming boats. They are beautiful! But the main reason you guys are talking about them is that they are surrounded by ugly ducklings. You may look at 100 boats in a magazine before you find one really good looking and it will probably be a Flemming. Its amazing how many boats out there are not attractive or even ugly.

Eric Henning

 

[Marin]

To be fair, it's not just Fleming. There are similar designs by de Fever--- there is currently a de Fever 48 in Bellingham Marina near our slip and I think it's every bit as good looking as a Fleming. Maybe even more so because the de Fever has a bit more wood trim on the exterior (which is beautifully finished in this case) which in my opinon adds to the aesthetics of the boat. I have no idea how the build quality or interior configuration of the de Fever pilothouse/Portugese bridge boats compares to Fleming's boats.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin,
de Fever's are nice looking boats but I've never seen one that could be called beautiful. Your GB is closer.

Eric Henning

 

[Codger2]

I could contribute* to this conversation and make a few points about DeFevers, (My brother had a 53 with a 6ft extended cockpit) but because I know there are people on this site that have Defevers and love them, I'll just say this. I love the Flemings!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Walt, Marin,
I wondered about my comments on beauty of design and did a little survey. 1953, 1970 and 2009. There were many As from pictures in the 1953 magazine and no Es. 1970 brought no Es and no As. The 2009 pics produced 2 Es and 5 As. The As were, Park Isle 52, Nordhavn 46, GB Aleutian 59, the Flemings and the Eagle 40. The B catergory went to Nordic Tug, Camano 31, Krogen 42, Krogen Express 52, Kanter 62, Nordhavn 62, Eastbay 45, DeFever 52 and my favorite boat the Sea Spirit 60. I graded on visual mass/shape, ballance and lines. Many boats are more usefull than those that are more bueatiful. Many boats are pretty w lots of chrome and varnish. The Flemings got demerits for the slablike FB roof support that looks like it could have been cut out of a piece of plywood on a table saw. More or less invisible ss stanchion tubes could have been used. I was pleasantly supprised there were so many As and so few Ds. There were many Cs. I won't mention them as most folks w C boats think of them as B boats and of course there are many boats I didn't grade. The upshot is that the fleet is in much better shape than I had thought.

Eric Henning

 

[Phuket]

Hi Marin,

Sorry I have been away from a computer for a few days, weekends we stay at our beach place which is basic and not connected which is good actually. *Did some more boating with a crowd of neighbours and kids out on the boat on Sunday then a BBQ at the house.


Regarding the high bow it seems that generally it is to take the weight of the fish and ice as the bows come down a lot when they are loaded up. *Mine has an especially high bow for it's length, but it is from the other coast of Thailand so I am not sure if that is common or not over there.


I will take some pictures next time I am in town around the fishing port of some local boats showing the difference between loaded and unloaded as it can be quite extreme. *Boats that head further out to sea generally have higher bows to keep the waves out of the boat and the closer in they stay the flatter the sheer.


As mine is completely empty in the bow (apart from some concrete blocks) the bow is very high at the moment. *Once the bunks are built I plan to fit some tanks under them, water and an extra fuel tank for longer trips. *This may bring it down a bit but I still don't think it will go to the antifouled waterline.


Cheers, Leon.

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
de Fever's are nice looking boats but I've never seen one that could be called beautiful. Your GB is closer.

Eric---* Here is a shot of a deFever 48*I pulled off the web.**I have to agree that it is not as sleek as the Fleming.* But it's not too bad.* Again, I know nothing about the quality of these boats so I'm going strictly on the way they look.* I do know something about the quality of a Fleming---- its roots are in the Alaskan/Grand Banks lines of American Marine way back when.*

The one in the photo looks more blocky than the one I saw in our marina a few weeks ago.* The one I saw looked much more "Fleming-like" with a Portugese bridge, raised pilothouse (I think),*etc.* It wasn't there this past weekend so it's either out or gone.* If it comes back I'll try to get*a photo of it.


*


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 17th of August 2009 11:37:36 AM

 

[Carey]

MarinDoes this look more like the Defever in Bellingham?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Carey,
Now that is the best looking Defever. I could lust after that boat. Look at the pics. See how much better looking it is than Marin's Defever. I usually consider DeFevers and most Krogens to appear too top heavy. It may be the photo itself but this DeFever in your picture does not seem to have high mass. The opposite of the high mass boats are the Eagles. I love them but thier visual low mass is such that they have a tug like appearance. Perhaps they consider them to be a "tug yacht" and it is incorporated into the design to that end.

Eric Henning

 

[Carey]

EricI agree. That is one of Defever's best designed boats. I believe it was produced in 46 and 48 foot. Maybe more. Definitely one of my top choice boats.
Carey

 

[Marin]

Carey wrote:

Marin
Does this look more like the Defever in Bellingham?

Yes, that's it.* I thought I had read the manufacturer's name and "48" on it but I could be mistaken.* Perhaps it's longer than 48.'* The one I saw was in the slip right next to the Nordhavn "Prime Time" on C-dock (I think).* It has a centrifugal wiper in the center windshield panel.* I don't recall the name.* I have no idea what year it is but it was in what seemed like immaculate condition.

*

 

[Nomad Willy]

Carey,
Wonderful picture* ..* your new avitar. Must be the best avitar on the forum. Even I can see it's Turn Point. How did you take it? Could you post it so we can see it larger? Perhaps Marin will get a new avitar** ...* and pull up his fenders.

Eric Henning
30 Willard
Thorne Bay Alaska

 

[Carey]

EricThanks for the kind words on the avatar. Marin took the picture from his boat. We were headed into Prevost Harbor. Here's that photo for you.
The last photo is Marin with his fenders up!!!


-- Edited by Carey on Monday 17th of August 2009 10:22:02 PM

-- Edited by Carey on Monday 17th of August 2009 10:23:11 PM

 

[Marin]

Keep in mind that those photos Carey posted are massive Photoshop jobs. On the two photos of his boat I had a hell of a time masking out the rain and fog and gray sky and log-infested water and keying in sky and sunlit water and foliage from a job we did on the south island of New Zealand a few years ago. Carey obviously did the same on the three photos he took.

Here are a pair of completely unmodified shots I took just before I took the photos of Carey's boat. This is what the weather normally looks like around here.* Actually, this was a pretty nice day for around here.* The log with the two gulls is pretty small for these waters.* Harder to see but there's a better chance of missing it.So you can see why it took hours of digital manipulaton and replacement to create Carey's avatar picture.....




-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 18th of August 2009 12:03:39 AM

 

[Codger2]

Carey & Marin:

Great pictures! Yes, I like Carey's new avatar.

Marin's boat looks like an ad for his canvass shop and would make a slick avatar also. <grin>

Walt

 

[Marin]

Our boat spent all its life in California until we liberated it and trucked it north. All the canvas you see came with the boat. Given the rainforest of teak American Marine used on their earlier boats, both wood and fiberglass, I can understand why previous owners invested in the canvas. There is also a full cover for the transom and covers for all the windows. My wife has made a few more--- for our new windlass, the nameboards on the flying bridge, and other odds and ends as well as repairing the orignal canvas when the seams start to go (she uses Tenara thread which is damn near indestructible). All the canvas is at least 12 years old and the full flying bridge cover is much older than that. I'm amazed at how well it all has held up. The fabric is all fine--- the only things that have given up have been seams and since my wife gets on them right away with the Tenara, the canvas is like the Energizer Bunny and keeps going and going and going.

Our boat is not kept under cover and we never run from the flying bridge so the flying bridge cover is up year round. I expect to lose it every year and every year it surprises us by surviving all the storms that can gust up to 70mph.

I don't mind varnishing and whatnot---it's actually rather relaxing--- but in the winter we put all the rail covers on and leave them on until sometime the next summer when we'll take them off. This summer we've been too lazy to remove and store them so they're still on the boat. We have friends coming from France to go with us on a three-week cruise in BC so we'll take the covers off for that. It used to really bug me, taking the boat out with the rail and transom covers on it, so we'd take them off and then put them back on when we got home. I'm not self-conscious about it anymore and since we've been working on other projects (rebuilding some window frames and so on) it doesn't bother me to leave them on when we go out.

 

[Marin]

Vinny wrote:

Marin,

I'm so sorry that you can't ever*go outside without your rain slicker on.* You must have prune skin and fungus growth everywhere.*

Having grown up in Hawaii if I never see sun again it will be too soon.* I've had more than my quota. The grayer and rainier and snowier it gets the happier I am.* The only thing I don't like is wind--- it screws up both boating and floatplane flying.* Maybe it's because of my flying (in another life I used to use my instrument rating) but we have no qualms taking the boat out in zero visibility.* So the 24/7/365 fog up here doesn't bother us.

One thing you don't see here much are burnt up,*leather-skinned people.* And a friend told me not long after I moved here that a benefit of our wet climate, at least for the girls, is beautiful hair without the need of a chemistry set to keep it that way.* From what I've observed she seems to be right.

*

 

[Nomad Willy]

Carey and Marin,
It's obvious I'm going to have to learn about "Photoworkshop". Don't know about these things. I plan on taking a better Avitar picture but I've got to wait for perfect weather and I need to get that dinghy off the cabin roof. Also I need the boat to be in near perfect trim. I didn't know/forgot that my water tanks were empty and I would have a bow down trim** ..* not good for photos. In the picture of your boat it looks like yours may be a bit bow down as well. It's strange that I didn't notice it untill I looked at this picture. When I worked at Uniflite my personal boat was the photo chase boat and we saw through various ballast seneraios (while sea testing the 28' prototype hull) the subtle differences in attitude caused by ballast changes. When I filled the water tanks in the stern the bow came up 2 or 3". I want it this way for bucking head seas and to keep my stern from yawing about in following seas. I wanted the bow to be up a bit and to have a nice bold wake so I probably was at WOT. In the picture you can see the bow is clearly not "up a bit"*** ..* maybe even bow down a bit. Now that the water tanks are full the boat looks and handles right. Thats Friday Harbor and the mud from Chuckanut Drive no? When the wind blows and the brightwork covers flutter around does that take the gloss off your varnish in spots?. Since your'e so capable of editing pictures why don't you take the blue out of those cliffs in the background of Careys calendar picture? Well it seems one can look at Marins boat and know what kind of VIP is on board by how much varnish is showing eh? I did this post a few days ago but must have forgot to "submit". Oh** .. by the way Marin you can come on up here now** .. the rain is back.

Eric Henning

 

[Phuket]

Morning,Had a rainy Sunday so instead going out to a beach took the kids for a cruise in our small boat up into the fishing port to look at the fishing boats and ferries. *I took a bunch of pictures while I was there (sorry I did not photo shop out the grey sky) some to show how the bow goes down on the Thai trawlers when they are loaded and others just cause I see you guys are interested in working boats.


All these photos are taken in a creek about a mile long lined on both sides by commercial boats of all kinds, in some places they are stacked up so far into the creek that the bigger boats have trouble turning around. *There are local boats that go out overnight, a couple of days or up to a week then there are boats that go from here to Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka and further, sometimes staying out for a year or more. *Yesterday we spoke to some Philippino crew on a Taiwanese longliner that were about to go out past Sri Lanka and stay out for 6-8 months. *They obviously get serviced by bigger boats while at sea. *A few years ago I was down in Irian Jaya, 2400 nautical miles from Phuket, (Indonesian side of Papua New Guinea) and met a fleet of Thai prawn trawlers that stayed down there for 2 years at a time. *They were being serviced by a fisheries "research" boat that is generally tied up in Phuket.


Picture descriptions.


1. Looking back down the creek around half way in. *The public fisheries dock is on the left.
2. Boats tied up at a private dock. *These are big boats that go to sea for long periods. *The closest one has an Indonesian name and jakarts marked on the stern but is a Thai boat that I guess has registered down there to get fishing rights. *You can see how low in the water the bows of the two blue hulled boats are.
3.Another company dock, these are local boats that probably stay out for up to a week. *The one alongside rather than stern two is loaded and you can see how the bow is lower in the water than the other two with the same paint scheme.
4.Public fisheries dock.
5.Local boat unloading at a private dock, these boats keep everything and the small stuff going on a conver directly into an open truck goes to make pet food I think.
6.small fleet of squid boats that fish locally using large light to attract squid. *Most of this group seems to be there all the time so I think they are inactive at the moment - maybe due to fuel prices.
7.This is a double ender that is only seen from one local muslim island near here. *They specialise in catching very small fish that are immediately unloaded to another boat where they are deep fried *then dried. *Eaten like a snack they are yummy, but I guess that is a lot of small fish that never get to grow up.
8.Trawler heading out to fish, on the way out they are loaded full with ice then coming back it is hopefully replaced by fish. *The local boats do not have refrigeration.
9.Shipyard in town - actually the one where I hauled my boat.
10.Another shipyard on the other side of the creek. There are four large yards and a few small ones.


Hope you find these interesting.


Cheers, Leon.

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:

It's obvious I'm going to have to learn about "Photoworkshop". ...In the picture of your boat it looks like yours may be a bit bow down as well.

Eric---

Just for the record, it's Adobe Photoshop.* Part of the reason our boat looks a bit bow down is the horizon line in the photo slants down to the right a bit.* So that "tilts' the boat down to the right a bit.* The boat floats level on its bootstripe and when we add power the bow comes up (a bit).* But between the bow wave and the slight tilt the boat does indeed appear to be a bit bow-down.* At the time this photo was taken I believe the aft pair of fuel tanks were empty, but since the tanks are more or less in the center of the boat this probably doesn't make much difference in trim.* We keep the water tanks (in the lazarette) full so I don't think they were affecting the trim much.

Here's the same shot with the horizon line levelled.* Doesn't make a huge difference but it does look less bow-down.


*

 

[Codger2]

FWIW, I don't see anything wrong with the trim on Marin's boat. "You're picking the fly specks out of the pepper seeds Eric!"