Time to start asking questions, 10 of them

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Gy Highway

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I am new to using forums so here we go... I'll give a snapshot of where I am and blast out some questions, answer what you want.

I retire from the Marine Corps in 3 years, the wife and I plan on living on a boat. I have had a few boats but nothing liveaboard. We want to cruise the east coast, the gulf and maybe into the Bahamas. We have researched boats for a few years but have just recently started going to see them. We seem to like aft cabin motoryachts and convertible type sportfishers , (I am aware that they will offer completely different experiences). We have yet to see a traditional trawler but are open to the idea.

Thoughts, experiences, opinions, advice-
1.35-45' Meridian/Carver type aftcabins, 200-300 price range.
2. Silverton T-series 45' - (If you own Heavy Metal located at Kent Narrows, MD- your boat was amazing and showed us another possibility!)
3. What are some good questions to get the conversation started with a broker?
4.Sportfisher going trawler speeds as a liveaboard?
5.Things to stay away from, i.e. cored hull on some Sea Ray type boats from XXXX-2002?
6.A buyers checklist/or sequence- i.e. have an oil sample pulled before haul out.
7.Engine access that is in the saloon? Seems like a nightmare.
8.Military marinas
9.retired military liveaboards
10. What questions should I be asking?

I know that's a lot but there is a lot to know. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to provide knowledge. Thanks!
 
Welcome aboard! Here is a homework reading assignment:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/boat-search-101-a-14905.html


Some random bits to surf:
Yachtworld boat search site
Florida Mariner publication


There are thousands upon thousands of boats for sale. Don't fixate on any one particular brand or style. Go looking with a broken signing arm in the beginning. Do not expect to go on any boat rides unless you have a deposit down. Have fun!
 
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard. You're a good man (saloon is the CORRECT term!).


Go on as many boats as you can. Walk the docks. Talk to anyone and everyone. The "right" questions will soon become obvious. Perhaps start looking for your buying broker, if you choose to engage one. The right broker working on your behalf can advise about and filter in/out boats you may be interested in as well as assist in a final sale.


Sit down with the Mrs., your favorite libation(s) and each make a list of needs, wants, likes and don't wants. Do so with a minimum of conversation so you don't influence each other's choices. Swap the lists and discuss the points. Be open to amending those lists as you research. EVERY boat is a compromise in some way.


Have fun!


giphy.gif
 
Gy Highway said:
I retire from the Marine Corps in 3 years, the wife and I plan on living on a boat. ... We want to cruise the east coast, the gulf and maybe into the Bahamas. ... We seem to like aft cabin motoryachts and convertible type sportfishers , (I am aware that they will offer completely different experiences). We have yet to see a traditional trawler but are open to the idea.

2. Silverton T-series 45' - (If you own Heavy Metal located at Kent Narrows, MD- your boat was amazing and showed us another possibility!)

4.Sportfisher going trawler speeds as a liveaboard?

7.Engine access that is in the saloon? Seems like a nightmare.

8.Military marinas

9.retired military liveaboards
Click to expand...


Thanks for your service!

2. Check out the 50C, too, for comparison. Slightly better master stateroom arrangement, IMO (In My Opinion), and some other advantages too.

4. Works fine. We often run for long distances at 7-8 kts, very decent fuel economy. You can get engine manufacturer spec sheets for predicted GPH at various RPMs, eventually compare various RPMs to actual speeds (we did that)... and in our case, we can approach 2 NMPG at slow speeds. Many will recommend you a) operate the engines at the correct temps, and b) occasionally run up to planing speeds to clear out build-up in aftercoolers or turbos, etc. Sometimes, planing hulls are not comfortable at displacement speeds due to sea states (but then sometimes full- and semi-displacement trawlers aren't either, without stabilizers). In our case, we have the option to get on plane, get it over with, tack into seas if necessary, etc.

7. In our case, we have removable floor sections in the saloon, and I've seen whole engines removed/replaced in sisterships, easy enough to do with a boom led through the cockpit door. But we also have a day hatch from the cockpit too, so I don't have to lift those hatches very often. The 45C and 50C both have engine room hatches in the cockpit, but I'm told the 45C and 50C don't have those removable hatches in the saloon. I dunno about the 45C engine room, but I'm told there's decent service access on both side of each engine. I suspect each boat/model is different.

8. You can check through the various MWR websites. And you can check out Pax River in person, if you haven't already. We've been through the marinas at MCAS Cherry Point and NAS Jacksonville, decent enough but you'd have to evaluate each differently. Cherry Point is well protected, but then they didn't have many slip options for our size (and we're low in the pecking order anyway). NAS Jax borders open water on the St. Johns River, lots of fetch, and I'm told it can get a bit bouncy in there depending on which dock/which slip. I haven't been to Patrick AFB, but I'm told that's a pretty nifty setup if they have space available. All that said, it's a great benefit if one of the military marinas can work for you.

9. I think it's a large community, but I haven't looked to see if there's a single on-line community. Maybe a place to start would be by talking to dockmasters at various target marinas.

So you know, wen it comes to boat brands, there's often an on-line "owners club" and it's common for people to join before buying... so ask questions about various models, strengths and weaknesses (you get more candid comments when the boat brand doesn't own the website), and advice on service access and repairs and so forth.

-Chris
 
If you haven't already decided..
1) You will want a diesel, probably a single. This pretty much rules out sport fishers.
2) Generally, (not always) Silvertons have no side decks. Single handing can be difficult and even with help there may be a problems getting from bow to stern.
3) In the 35 foot range you will probably have to access the engine through the salon, via a hatch. Larger boats may have walk in engine rooms. Lifting the hatch has never been a problem for me.
4)Get on a lot of boats, narrow down your list and find a few you are serious about. GET IT SURVEYED! HULL AND ENGINE!
5) You don't mention where you live now but if you intend to live and boat on the Southern half of the East coast don't even look at anything from the West coast. Shop and buy within a few hundred miles from where you live. Possible exception might be to consider boats from the Great Lakes. They are generally priced a bit better and fresh water boats are often in better condition than salties.

Good Luck, Welcome Aboard.

pete
 
Welcome aboard Shipmate. Thank you for your service!
Walk the docks and the right boat will find you!
If you need a recommendation for a buyers broker, PM me.
Cheers
 
RT made the mostly excellent recommendation- sit with your better half and discuss.

The goals MUST be fairly inline, or chaos will ensue. Something as simple as speed (trawler speed or planing speed) can make or break the experience. Getting together on the cruising goals and how much time is OK to travel, the cabin layout, etc., are just as critical as single vs twins or other points.
 
Welcome! Lots of good advice so far.

Spend time thinking about what you “think” you want. Then look at a lot of boats. I strongly recommend that over the next three years you spend your leave chartering boats. While it is true that vacationing on a boat isn’t the same a living aboard, it will give you experience with different types of configurations and features.

FWIW, I thought I knew I wanted a boat with side decks and no fly bridge when I started thinking about making the transition from sail to power. The boat I ended up choosing doesn’t have full side decks and has a flybridge. So keep an open mind.

BTW, that boat up on the rocks in that picture above, that is the boat I ended up buying.
 
I have a suggestion that is slightly different from the usual. Don't start with what boat you want. Instead begin with what area are you going to initially cruising in as you build your experience for your longer distant ports of call.

After you get into boating, you might find expanded local waters are enough to keep you happy, most boaters end up in this category, particularly sail boaters who have this big dream to go thousands of miles away from home, but in reality settle down to local boating. When I say local I'm really meaning a couple of hundred miles up, down and sideways. This is really true in the Pacific Northwest and coastal British Columbia. Many discover happiness can be found in local waters, though local may mean going from Seattle up into Alaska. But most don't go to Alaska, only a small minority, more will go to the Broughtons, even more to Desolation Sound, even more to the Gulph Islands and even more to the San Juan Islands. And for most of these folks, they are living the dream.

You might consider your purchase as a two boat process. A smaller one to gain experience and a larger one for more distant waters. Or you might begin with a slower boat only to discover you want to go faster sometimes, or vice versa, you start with a faster boat but realize for you slowing down is therapeutic. Only experience can answer these questions.

What I have done is found a port that on paper looks like it would be a great place to moor and live. But you should know I have zero experience of East coast waters, marinas, best locations for a boat. I'm just using Wanchese, North Carolina as example of how I would think. So I invite you to call up Wanchese, NC on Google Map so you can see what I am talking about. And pull out a little bit so you can see the wider area.

So south you have Pamlico Sound and North you see Albemarle Sound. I am assuming there is some kind of water way that allows you to go north and south from Wanchese, and if there isn't, pretend there is. I will just talk about Pamlico Sound though the thinking would also apply to Albemarle Sound.

I would head down south in Pamlico area many times on a my boat going to multiple destinations over time. I may be going to Pamlico River a couple of times, then Bay River a few times, then Neuse River a number of times. But I am always covering the same ground time and time again out of Wanchese heading south. The same waters for all three rivers cruising down to them, the the same open waters cruising back to home port. For me over time, the initial cruising would become laborious as the view would be approximately the same going and coming. Eventually I would like to speed up the process and instead of going 7 knots down to the three rivers, perhaps faster initially for the first hour and and a half at 16 knots to cover the initial stage of my journey down, and repeating going faster for the last hour and a half on the return journey. Once I got into more coastal areas, I'd slow down to see what there is to see.

It might be that wind and wave actions become challenging in the afternoon and when I am journeying back, I want to cover ground quickly in the morning.

Now folks in slower trawler would do these trips entirely different and would be very happy with how they were doing it.

So the initial stage of boat buying is really - "know thy self" - which can be difficult with no experience. But you may know enough about yourself to help in the process. You are content doing things slower, but your wife isn't or vice versa. It helps to know the location of where you boat is going to be kept in the early stages of your boating life, or maybe your boat will be at the first marina you go to for the rest of your lives.

Call around to various marinas that you hope to keep your boat in and find out how available are liveaboard slips. This is crucial in the Pacific Northwest.

So start with location, then see what kind of boat will fulfill your local needs 200+ miles North, South, East and West of that location. Then figure out if you want to do some of that location(s) quickly or will you be content to go slow.

Then look for that boat.
 
Be sure your wife is 100% all in with both boat ownership/living aboard and the choice of boat. It will be a great experience if you both share the dream and a potential nightmare if only one of you does.
 
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Gy Highway said:
I am new to using forums so here we go... I'll give a snapshot of where I am and blast out some questions, answer what you want.

I retire from the Marine Corps in 3 years, the wife and I plan on living on a boat. I have had a few boats but nothing liveaboard. We want to cruise the east coast, the gulf and maybe into the Bahamas. We have researched boats for a few years but have just recently started going to see them. We seem to like aft cabin motoryachts and convertible type sportfishers , (I am aware that they will offer completely different experiences). We have yet to see a traditional trawler but are open to the idea.

Thoughts, experiences, opinions, advice-
1.35-45' Meridian/Carver type aftcabins, 200-300 price range.
2. Silverton T-series 45' - (If you own Heavy Metal located at Kent Narrows, MD- your boat was amazing and showed us another possibility!)
3. What are some good questions to get the conversation started with a broker?
4.Sportfisher going trawler speeds as a liveaboard?
5.Things to stay away from, i.e. cored hull on some Sea Ray type boats from XXXX-2002?
6.A buyers checklist/or sequence- i.e. have an oil sample pulled before haul out.
7.Engine access that is in the saloon? Seems like a nightmare.
8.Military marinas
9.retired military liveaboards
10. What questions should I be asking?

I know that's a lot but there is a lot to know. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to provide knowledge. Thanks!
Click to expand...

8. Military Marinas: Manatee Cove, Patrick AFB, FL
 
I forgot to add to my spiel this self truth. When I switched from sailboating to power, I was a go slow guy. When I was attempting to purchase a motor from Volvo and they were putting me through all kinds of hoops - I wanted to replace horsepower with horsepower, turns out it isn't that simple.

But in the hoop jumping process I really struggled with the notion, am I a go slow guy or not? Initially I would have said - "Hell, yes" - but eventually the dark side began to creep in and I had to confess that "Yes!!!" sometimes I do enjoy going faster for the thrill, the time saved, journey time reductions, and access to further destinations in the same amount of time would I have gone slow.

If my average cruise time on the water is 5 to 6 hours, going faster initially allows me to hit more distant paradises. So now I'm a "go slow sometimes, kind of guy." This is my way of saying, what you started out being, may not be what you ended up being.
 
You are a Marine nearing retirement, so self discipline is not a problem, so plan weekend car trips to the areas you might want to boat in, and check out the marinas and walk the docks to look at boats for sale there.
Talk to the people on their boats and get their opinions as to how their boats have answered the concerns you have in your search.
Self knowledge will be key to being comfortable on your boat. What frustrates you, what makes it easy to be happy?
I don't like trying to work in tight spaces, so engine room size mattered to us. I wanted twin diesels, so to get the engine room size I wanted, we had to have about 40ft of boat. Both of us cook, so a decent galley was necessary.
I needed both headroom (6' 4") and wider passageways (that "don't crowd me" thing again)
Decide what is important for you both to be happy to spend time on the boat, and your sarch list of makes and models will get shorter.
We took our list of 7 make / models and found the location of all of them for sale on the East and Gulf coasts, and did a two week road trip to see how closely reality came to our researched concepts. Of the 7, three went right off the list. One in particular, every example we saw had a child sized shower, while another had the headroom needed only in the center of the saloon.
Welcome aboard, have fun, and don't get in too mu h of a hurry.
 
Your budget is high enough that unless you are wanting to go faster than 12kts, you may want to consider more traditional trawlers;
Grand banks, nordhavn, selene, heritage (newer not older ones), maybe even a mainship or some of the other more traditional trawler types etc. that are out there in either a single or twin depending upon size and type. You then get the stability of a keel and better long range effectiveness of less fuel consumption but at a costs of overall top speed.

Grand banks, heritage (36) did build some aft cabin (motoryacht style) configurations.

Sportfish, carvers, silvertons are all fine for cruising and or staying at the dock but at anchor not as comfortable as a boat with a true keel (IE 'trawler'.)
 
Oooh-Rah! Semper Fi, Marine! I was at exactly three years from retirement from your taxi service (otherwise known to you non-Marines as the United States Navy) when I bought a 42-foot wooden Grand Banks. Having done a lot of study over the years while not being in a position to own a boat, GB was my heart's desire, and wood was something I could afford. I bought the second boat I looked at and kept it for 29 years including an overland movement of it from San Diego to Galveston FFT Panama City. Luckily, you seem to be in a far better financial position than I was, and following a lot of the good advice here, I am sure you will come out with a dandy of a boat.

I spent three years at Fiddler's Cove Marina (Navy) at Coronado before the move to Panama City where the military marina is too small for such a beast as a GB 42. I have enjoyed the Navy marina at Boca Chica as a visitor, but it is essential to call them and reserve early. You will find that as a retiree, you are not at the top of the priority list because they cater to active duty, although NO active duty are cruising very far meaning transient slips will almost always be used by retirees. You can google up military marinas or simply call the MWR folks to get more information on them.
 
Time to start asking

I'll respond to your questions, below;

I retire from the Marine Corps in 3 years, the wife and I plan on living on a boat. I have had a few boats but nothing liveaboard. We want to cruise the east coast, the gulf and maybe into the Bahamas. We have researched boats for a few years but have just recently started going to see them. We seem to like aft cabin motoryachts and convertible type sportfishers , (I am aware that they will offer completely different experiences). We have yet to see a traditional trawler but are open to the idea. A boat is often a boat. Yes there are differences but they all float on the water and get you from point A to point B where water is concerned.
Your point about cruising, the east coast to the Gulf and Bahamas can be done on most boats, so I would ask, which boats do you like the looks of?
You can see from my picture we have an aft cabin motor yacht, also called a trawler.
Thoughts, experiences, opinions, advice-
1.35-45' Meridian/Carver type aftcabins, 200-300 price range.
Certainly these boats will allow you to cruise the areas you have mentioned. Yes you can find the boat in your price range, you may just need to choose a boat in an older age group.
2. Silverton T-series 45' - (If you own Heavy Metal located at Kent Narrows, MD- your boat was amazing and showed us another possibility!)
Don't know the difference between a Carver and a Silverton. To me, a trawler owner, they are both go fast boats.
3. What are some good questions to get the conversation started with a broker?
I'd suggest that you sit down across the desk and pull out your checkbook and put it in front of you, then say, I'd like to by a boat. You will have his/her undivided attention. Don't be surprised if he doesn't look at you but eyes your checkbook continually during your conversations
4.Sportfisher going trawler speeds as a liveaboard?
Presuming you have diesel engines, your sportsfisher won't like going trawler speed. Hard on the engine. I'd suggest that you do some 'due diligence' about hull design, pro's & con's. Then I'd suggest you do some review of your retirement account. Understand that to push a sportsfisher at the speeds they like to run, you are jumping from (please this is a generalization, don't write to tell me it costs you less) a 4gph trawler to a 20gph sportsfiher. I met a guy with a 48' cabin cruiser which burned 2 times that amount, but for him, he felt he needed to be where he wanted to be in the least amount of time.
5.Things to stay away from, i.e. cored hull on some Sea Ray type boats from XXXX-2002?
Some boats are bought and not cared for which can/will cause troubles, regardless if a cored hull or not. A survey is always a good idea and would be mandatory if any financing were involved.
6.A buyers checklist/or sequence- i.e. have an oil sample pulled before haul out.
Check the internet, plenty of list available to cover all aspects of boat buying. Boat US is a good source for info. I'll presume you mean oil samples taken and checked, after an accepted offer, purchase contingent on results. Haul out would also be done, but after you had a sea trial. You might want to run up the engines before you pulled samples
7.Engine access that is in the saloon? Seems like a nightmare.
Don't know why you would say this. What prompts this comment?
8.Military marinas
There are several around the country, what specifically are you asking. My understanding is retired military have first standing. Other military have second.
9.retired military liveaboards
Again, what is the question? Anybody, retired military or not can be a liveaboard.
10. What questions should I be asking?
There are many questions to ask, but they might be better addressed after you have chosen a type of boat. To come full circle, you might want a boat you like the looks of. Makes keeping a boat a little easier. Kind of like keeping a woman.
Any specific questions, send me a message.
Good luck jarhead, spoken from a former navy guy.
 
Semper Fi. I’m a retired Marine. Email me and I’ll give you my phone number. I’d be happy to talk with you about my perspective on these issues. I have a Grand Banks 36 Classic. Bryvmo@aol.com.
 
Welcome to the forum. Everyone has different preferences, it here are some of my priorities: wide side decks and safe access to the bow and anchor- won’t find on a sports Fisher. Reasonable access to engines- ideal is aft compartments as on sailing catamarans, but not found on most trawlers. Our Endeavour 44 catamaran trawler has the twin engines under the two aft berths. Both raise up on hydraulic pistons and access is good, but could be better. Diesel engines, not gasoline, for reliability and safety. I wanted both a bridge deck steering and inside steering, but the Endeavour has a compromise with a hard glass roof over the single steering station, and roll up strataglass side panels with screens, and two opening hatches and opening front windshields. Reasonable speed if needed: I was a lifelong sailor, and could motor at 6-7 knots unless against the wind. When I switched to power, I wanted to motor faster than my sailboat. The Endeavour cruises easily and economically at 9 knots, but can get up to 14-15 at higher rpm if needed. With empty tanks on sea trials, we hit 20 knots.
Look around at a variety of boats. You will develop a good sense of what you want. Good luck
Jack
 
Nepidae said:
I4.Sportfisher going trawler speeds as a liveaboard?
Presuming you have diesel engines, your sportsfisher won't like going trawler speed. Hard on the engine.
Click to expand...


See several threads here, and other info around the 'net, disputing that.

I've read recently Tony Athen's has posted on his site (Seaboard Marine) that mostly diesel longevity is about how much fuel they go through in their lifetime. Less fuel over time (lower speeds) equals longer life.

Usually accompanied by notes about keeping operating temps in the right range, periodic higher-speed operations to blow out aftercoolers/turbos...

Several diesel experts here could probably comment better...

-Chris
 
I'm a retired marine and we cruise from NC to Fla/Bahamas in the winter. When we purchased our boat, we set aside 25% of the budget for initial improvements and maintenance surprises. This enabled us to upgrade the electronics, add a dinghy and handle all of the shakedown issues without financial stress.

Random thoughts after four years of cruising:
- the range of your boat can be a huge constraint that is set and fixed at the time you purchase the boat.

- the ability to go fast is great when you need to beat a storm or catch a bridge opening
- it would be hard to design a machine that can burn fuel faster than a boat


I'd recommend you look at Great Harbor GH37. These are great live aboard boats and they are very efficient.



Semper Fi! And good luck with your search and transition.
 
Find a quality built boat that you like with good diesels. Once you have a good platform you can make it your own as you go. Quite honestly you will most likely end up moving to something else after you find your “real” needs, and wants. Btw Key West NAS has a marina.
 
Gy Highway said:
I am new to using forums so here we go... I'll give a snapshot of where I am and blast out some questions, answer what you want.

I retire from the Marine Corps in 3 years, the wife and I plan on living on a boat. I have had a few boats but nothing liveaboard. We want to cruise the east coast, the gulf and maybe into the Bahamas. We have researched boats for a few years but have just recently started going to see them. We seem to like aft cabin motoryachts and convertible type sportfishers , (I am aware that they will offer completely different experiences). We have yet to see a traditional trawler but are open to the idea.

Thoughts, experiences, opinions, advice-
1.35-45' Meridian/Carver type aftcabins, 200-300 price range.
2. Silverton T-series 45' - (If you own Heavy Metal located at Kent Narrows, MD- your boat was amazing and showed us another possibility!)
3. What are some good questions to get the conversation started with a broker?
4.Sportfisher going trawler speeds as a liveaboard?
5.Things to stay away from, i.e. cored hull on some Sea Ray type boats from XXXX-2002?
6.A buyers checklist/or sequence- i.e. have an oil sample pulled before haul out.
7.Engine access that is in the saloon? Seems like a nightmare.
8.Military marinas
9.retired military liveaboards
10. What questions should I be asking?

I know that's a lot but there is a lot to know. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to provide knowledge. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Gunny,

My wife and I are USMC retired LiveAboards, home ported at Camp Lejeune's marina. We found our dream boat this year so we have recent experience with the process you are going through .

To help narrow your search make a list of "wants and Don't wants". Update this list as you search and visit vessels. Id items you are willing to compromise and which items are NoGo's or deal breakers.

If this is your first big boat purchase, find a "buyers broker" to help guide you through this process. They really help with answering questions, following the steps and procedures, and closing the deal.

There are several LiveAboard couples at CLNC. Use us as a resource. Contact me for a meeting.

SemperFi
 
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