To Yanmar or not

[Nomad Willy]

I'm looking at a mid 80s Nordic Tug w a 140hp Yanmar 6 cyl engine. I talked to Cascade*(the pnw Yanmar dist) and they barely know it ever existed. The manual is no longer availible and they freely admit parts would be hard to get. Even Nordic Tug who installed the engine can't answer basic questions about them. I told the broker yesterday I didn't want the boat and he (of course) thinks I should buy it. I do very much like the boat and in this case I'd rather it had a Lehman in it. Did I say that?
Does anyone here know anything about these Yanmar engines?
The 140 has a simple turbo and the 175hp is aftercooled.
There was also talk about a 120hp NA.
They are blue in color.

 

[O C Diver]

nomadwilly wrote:

I'm looking at a mid 80s Nordic Tug w a 140hp Yanmar 6 cyl engine. I talked to Cascade
(the pnw Yanmar dist) and they barely know it ever existed. The manual is no longer availible and they freely admit parts would be hard to get. Even Nordic Tug who installed the engine can't answer basic questions about them. I told the broker yesterday I didn't want the boat and he (of course) thinks I should buy it. I do very much like the boat and in this case I'd rather it had a Lehman in it. Did I say that?
Does anyone here know anything about these Yanmar engines?
The 140 has a simple turbo and the 175hp is aftercooled.
There was also talk about a 120hp NA.
They are blue in color.

*

Eric,

Google is your friend.

Yanmar owner's manuals

Ted



*

 

[jleonard]

I once owned a Mainship with an old Perkins that was difficult for me to get parts for.
A lot of that problem had to do with the district I was located in, but the fact was it was a pia.
I also walked away from a 41 Defever that had a very old industrial Yanmar and my research* yielded nobody that had ever heard of that engine.

my advice is to stay away* or assume a repower and buy it at a price that reflects that.

-- Edited by jleonard on Thursday 13th of January 2011 01:50:57 PM

 

[Larry M]

Eric:* Boatdiesel.com has 453 different PDF files of drawings, data sheets and manuals for Yanmar's plus a forum section just on Yanmar's.*

What series engine is it?

 

[Nomad Willy]

O C Diver,My engine's not on the list.
Furthermore there's no 120, 140 or 175hp engines at all.
jleonard,
That's what's going on here * *...never heard of it or hardly know anything. They listed it at 127500 and I want it for 100000 so I'd need to get the boat at 70000. Not likely.
Larry M,
Indeed, I finally got off my lower unit and joined Boatdiesel.
The 175hp is 6PHMHTE. That's what the 175hp broker says.
The boat I want has the 140hp engine.
Thanks very much everyone.

 

[O C Diver]

nomadwilly wrote:

O C Diver,
My engine's not on the list.
Furthermore there's no 120, 140 or 175hp engines at all.
jleonard,
That's what's going on here ...never heard of it or hardly know anything. They listed it at 127500 and I want it for 100000 so I'd need to get the boat at 70000. Not likely.
Larry M,
Indeed, I finally got off my lower unit and joined Boatdiesel.
The 175hp is 6PHMHTE. That's what the 175hp broker says.
The boat I want has the 140hp engine.
Thanks very much everyone.

*

Eric,

Sorry, that page was from Boatdiesel.com and I just assumed you would search the site when you got the model number. Never looked to see if your engine was there.

Ted

*

 

[FF]

The second question is what tranny is used?

If its Yannmar a engine swop will cost an extra few grand to get a better , easier to hook up to unit.

A good swop , should be under $10K if you do the swing.

 

[jleonard]

"The 175hp is 6PHMHTE. That's what the 175hp broker says.
The boat I want has the 140hp engine"

It's been a while but that 140 hp engine sounds like it may be the same one I*stayed away from.
It was an industrial engine, suposedly very strong, and that was all I could find out about it. That includes a few e mails to Tony Athens on boatdiesel as well as talking to local Yanmar dealers and shops.*I did find that at least some parts were available thru a warehouse in Chicago. I just refused to get back into that kind of a situation.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Jay,I wonder if it was blue. Never seen a blue Yanmar before.


Thanks everyone for the help. Iv'e passed on this boat and the rest of my boat hunting effort is about dead too. Don't want to leave home in the winter either but in spring the prices may be back up. Unless fuel is $5 a gallon. China has become the world's largest consumer of oil and perhaps in a year or two we'll be #3. Looks like big increases in fuel costs is inevitable and what if our government starts taxing fuel to limit consumption like European nations have been doing for decades. And what if the big oil fields on the Arctic slope in central Russia turn out to be really really big. Not unlikely to happen and if all the domino's fall in the same direction (less likely) we will be well past $5 fuel. Perhaps I'm trying to talk myself into keeping the Willard.

 

[JohnP]

nomadwilly wrote:

Jay,
I wonder if it was blue. Never seen a blue Yanmar before.


Thanks everyone for the help. Iv'e passed on this boat and the rest of my boat hunting effort is about dead too. Don't want to leave home in the winter either but in spring the prices may be back up. Unless fuel is $5 a gallon. China has become the world's largest consumer of oil and perhaps in a year or two we'll be #3. Looks like big increases in fuel costs is inevitable and what if our government starts taxing fuel to limit consumption like European nations have been doing for decades. And what if the big oil fields on the Arctic slope in central Russia turn out to be really really big. Not unlikely to happen and if all the domino's fall in the same direction (less likely) we will be well past $5 fuel. Perhaps I'm trying to talk myself into keeping the Willard.

********* You have a great boat, why not keep her?*** Besides you can keep all your new
**********boat money in your boat expenses fund.

*

 

[FF]

"we will be well past $5 fuel."

So what? On a displacement hull by simply slowing down a bit the fuel cost can be brought into line.

A small investment like a cruising prop may help if the boat has a stoopid sized engine.

Even if the gov FINALLY gets with the program and frees up the 85% of US energy sources that are off limits , and drops the expensive in fuel burn "clean the last .5%" of exhaust fuel will be at world market price for most of your lifetime.

Is the difference between $2.00 and $5.00 that big a deal?

Die Broke , less for the State to confiscate.

 

[Baker]

I have seen a blue yanmar(the 175hp version) in a Nova Sundeck 42.

My wife is a Yanmar dealer. She says when she gets stumped, she goes to Torresen Marine or Old Port Marine. I went to both of their sites and couldn't find anything. But you my try calling them and seeing if they know anything. Also, Mack Boring is a large distributor in this county. These are all distributor companies and I don't think they do retail but they may be able to shed some light on the issue. Also weigh their opinion based on their desire to sell new engines......

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thanks very much for your input here John. This shows the power of Trawler Forum.*We know what we know but we also have, to a great extent what many others know and that is a great deal indeed.

 

[jleonard]

Mack B was one of the places I called about the engine at the time and they had nothing to offer..

I never saw the engine so I don't know what color it was.

 

[citroen2cv]

I have a mid 80's Nordic Tug with a Yanmar ^PHM-HTE engine if you want further info let me know

 

[Nomad Willy]

Su,
Do you really have a Citroen 2 cyl car? Never even ridden in one of them.
Yea** ...I was looking at Nordic Tugs. One w a 175hp Yanmar and one w a 140hp Yanmar.
Both engines are 6cyl and blue in color. I was told by someone there also was a 120hp version of this engine. As far as I can tell the 120 is naturally aspirated, the 140 has a simple/basic turbo and the 175 is turbo and aftercooled. I've been led to believe the 120 and the 140 can be run on slow bell without difficulties but the after cooled 175 should be run harder most all the time or the after cooling will give problems. That said the biggest problem as I see it is getting parts for the engine. I called around about the engine and even a Yanmar distributor hardly knew of their existence. I imagine one could get parts but it looks like most parts would be special order. The broker w the 175hp NT said "it's got lots of power". The 140hp NT is a beautiful boat and I haven't looked at it for quite a while but what do you know that would enlighten me. Basically is it something I should stay away from or embrace???
If you have one please show us a picture of the Citroen.

 

[sunchaser]

Eric

Nordic Tug is hungry right now. You might ask them the cost to repower the vessel. Then subtract that price from*fair market/Eric guesstimate*value of the boat and make your offer.

A few years ago I chartered a 32 NT with the Cummins. I believe that is pretty much the engine of choice for NT in the 32. Great boat and great engine.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Well Tom I don't think that would put it in the cost effective category however an 80hp John Deere in a 32 Nordic would sure be nice.

 

[Delta_JimS]

Yanmar 6 PHM-TE

I have been hankering to up-size now for awhile and ran across a nice option, but it has this old 6 PHM-TE in it - I'm suspicious.
She is a bit over-priced anyway, but is a boat and by a popular broker, so not surprised.

Eric, (or anyone who would like to chime in) have you obtained any more info or affirmation as to whether you would walk to one of these with your eyes open today?

I currently have an old Volvo, and having known then what I know now about them, I might not have been so eager....
She has been a great engine, but the reputation for acquiring parts and the cost is Well deserved.

The last thing I want to do is to pay dearly to get into an even worse engine support situation.
I poked around Boat Diesel and searched on the web, but it is not looking good. Frankly, based on this engine, she might be worth half what they are asking, provide the engine runs well today.

Any further input would be much appreciated.

 

[DavidM]

That old, blue Yanmar (if it really is a Yanmar with that color) can be replaced with a recon Cummins 6BT 210 engine for something in the mid $20Ks for engine and tranny plus maybe $10K for prop, stringer mods, mounts and installation. Say $35K turnkey.

Figure that when done that boat will have a world class engine that will last forever which should give it substantial resale value, but maybe only half of what you put into it.

So can you buy that boat for $17K less than others on the market with a good, well supported engine, not half as you say. Do you want to go through the repower hassle.

Popular broker or not, he should understand reality. A no support engine is a real liability.

David

 

[Delta_JimS]

Thanks David,

My sentiments exactly - sure wish it was a Cummins or a JD.(even a Volvo)

Actually, if I could get it for the price of a blown Yanmar, it would be far more appealing. I could deal with the re-power inevitability if the price was right.
Thinking back, I believe this listing has been around a few months although it is listed as new. It is a slow time for boats, so I figure he has a couple of chances let for price reduction realities - I have a boat already and can be patient.

Seems you pretty much confirmed my suspicion; 'tis a shame.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Assuming this is the same engine that was in the NT I was looking at several years ago there is a positive side to it. I found no parts available at all and considering that these engines are still running tends to support the talk I heard that they are a very good engine. Many trawler owners can go for years w/o needing any parts for their engines excluding oil filters ect. So one could conceivably have years of good service from these engines but it's obviously Russian Roulette. If you could easily afford to replace your car having collision insurance would not be cost effective and a boat w the above Yanmar engine may be much the same. But to make it work you've got to buy cheap.

 

[Delta_JimS]

Thanks Eric,

I fully concur. I go to view the boat tomorrow morning and meet with the listing broker.
My concern was not so much of Yanmar, as I understand the engines have a good reputation. My major concern is with the Age. Another suspicious concern is that the listed hours are only 1200. Either this is a recent re-power or something else does not add up. If re-powered, someone must have got the engine for free from a wrecked boat. She would be barely broken in. Otherwise, why would you ever do it?

Like I say, despite their reputation for expense and parts availability, my Volvo has been great.(knock on teak) She was not that well cared for before, but sure seems to appreciate it now.

It comes as a bit of a surprise to me to find this Yanmar in a mid-'80s trawler. I did not think Yanmar came on the scene until the '90s. Can someone correct me here?

Last time I bought from this broker I got a pretty good deal, but that was 2010. I doubt that lightning strikes me twice in the same place.

 

[eyschulman]

Eric I think the main consideration with this old Yanmar is Marine Age. The low hours on the engine have little to do with the prolonged exposure to salt( I assume salt water boat) of all the add on parts which are now either hard to get or expensive. I would buy this boat only if all else about it was much better than average and a repower were part of the financial equation. I know this is a repeat of what has already been said just want to reinforce the thoughts others share here,

 

[DavidM]

My guess is that it is an industrial engine with limited marinization as it looks to be sea water cooled. It may have never been a Yanmar marine product. Someone just bought a Yanmar radiator cooled industrial engine and plumbed it up to raw water.

But that is a very nice, large engine room, so repowering installation costs should be reasonable.

David

 

[Delta_JimS]

MW,

My concern is salt and turbo as well, based on how long it has been in the boat. I have a very hard time believing it is original 30 years old.(and 1200 hrs.) When was it re-powered, and why with this engine?
As stated, the most, wear if you will, on my Volvo is on the raw water cooling components. The rest of the engine looks good except some old hosing which I am slowly working through.

It is a very hard to argue with the seller that his engine is junk and will need replaced, particularly if it is running fine.....

WAG, 95% of the boats that I might be interested in, and damn few at that, are either mostly on the East coast or several on the West. Scratch the East coast, too far and too expensive to buy and transport. That leaves but a few at best per year that turn up on the West coast. That, or I am looking in the wrong places.
This is the reason I would possibly consider a re-power or such if located nearby, for the right price.

Now maybe, this Yanmar runs fine for the next 5-7 years with no expense other than oil, filters, and impellers - then, what the hey? What does it matter, sell her off to the next smuck to spin the cylinder in the revolver!

 

[alfetch]

I just ran across this discussion and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.


I have owned my 1984 President 43 foot trawler for 15 years. She's powered by twin Yanmar 6PHM-TE's, and they're wonderful. I can confirm that they're blue...and I can confirm that they're industrial beasts. I have over 5000 hours on them, and have had virtually no problems. And, here's the best part, parts are readily available! I have the parts catalog, and, when I need anything, a simple call to my local marine shop has worked every time. They work through the Yanmar distributor in Tampa. The only major things I've had to do over the years was a re-build on one turbo, a rebuild of one fresh water pump, and a replacement of one exhaust bend....coming from the turbo charger to the mixing elbow. That was recent, and I elected to cut the exhaust tube in half, sleeve it and weld back together. The reason for that method was cost and time. The part from Yanmar would have taken 90 days to arrive. I didn't want to wait that long.


In summary, don't be afraid of this engine. In fact, I'd suggest that the fact that the boat you're looking at has this engine makes it worth MORE, not less. It's a great engine.


Al
"Little Miss Magic"
Punta Gorda, FL

 

[Ski in NC]

Yanmar only imported and sold a restricted line of engines in the US. That is what most of us stateside are used to seeing. Worldwide, they sold many more engine models, including the 6PHM. They even make medium speed freighter engines up in the thousands of HP.

Getting parts for these non-US engines may be a bit of a PITA. The post above indicates it is not impossible.

Before getting serious with one of these, contact potential parts vendors and make sure you can get things. Parts may require shipping from Japan.

I suspect even these heavy duty engines use a lot of aluminum in the cooling systems, which has been a pet peeve of mine with Yanmar.

 

[Marlinmike]

Like most auto's today aluminum is the material of choice, Yanmar alum components are on the FWC side of system, the seawater cooler is like any other brand, so no need to have a pet peeve, they have beem around a very long time, just like my 300k mile Honda!

You have received a couple of actual owners feedback, so far positive, I would take the serial number down and call a your local parts place and see what the deal is first hand.

If later you decide to change the 6B 210 reman'ed is the logical choice.

 

[ti325v]

Unknown Yanmar

Somebody mentioned that Yanmar has made many industrial marine engines that were never exported to the USA.
I have one, it is a 6dhhtc, 6 cylinder about 5.3 liter after cooled turbo, it has OVER 30,000 hours on it and now needs rod bearings, pistons, sleeves....(Mains are fine). Starts in less then 1 second everyday, no smoke and has near zero blow by. I have put over 2,500 trouble free hours on it.
I cannot get accurate h.p. info on it, (Anywhere from 55-135) Yanmar Japan has little info, other then it was built from 1977-1982. Mac boring and Torrentson have never heard of it. (It was painted green though)
It has performed so well for me that I brought a nearly new spare, for $2,500 with gear box.
I can swap engines in two days. If you have any source for parts, it is likely you have a real first class machine there. (Lucky for me many parts can be adapted from Yanmar MD-4)
(Minimal aluminum in the raw water system), and some parts do look similar)
I see some are concerned that it is raw water cooled.....but it has an expansion tank on the front, I was under the impression that would only be found on a fresh water cooled engine.