Torn between N40 or N47

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An no matter what anyone else may try to convince you .. 40' is just too small to be a full time, no dirt home anymore liveaboard.


After reading all the comments it is clear to me we would be too cramped on the 40.
I was discussing the thread with my husband. He says he suspects that the advice of buying the smallest boat you would be comfortable on was not aimed at liveaboards :)
I have to admit the roomier boats were very appealing.


Building on the thought, it's useful to use "length" as quick shorthand, or maybe a rough abbreviation, to consider "roominess" -- but there's 40' and then there's 40'. A 40' Nordhavn probably has 3x the space we have in our 42', simply because the design differs to satisfy different requirements. (And I agree, our 42's is too small for a full-time liveaboard, and I'd guess an N40 would still be too small, too. At least for us.)

IOW, while you're looking, take design and layout into account, too. You may find you love a 47' whatever, but you may also find a 45' something else offers significantly more useful (for you) space. Or you may find a 49' something is laid out more usefully (for you) than a 47' whatever.

And so forth.

-Chris
 
Thanks Ranger42c. That is a useful approach. I am going to keep it in mind.
N4712: the youngest of our six kids is a college junior at Virginia Tech!
All six are in Virginia so we are planning to base in Virginia Beach.
My husband is anxious to leave Maine (4 big storms in 10 days) now that my mother is willing to winter in the Keys. A couple of our sons love the trawler idea so we are hoping to keep the boat for them (and for us) once we get to old to boat.
 
Looking to adopt? I'm available....

?
 
cardude01 you may want to be careful what you wish for: there are 10 grandchildren already and our youngest two are not even married yet. But, the more the merrier!
by the way, our cruising plans do not include the ICW; just Maine to the Keys; occasional trips to the Bahamas. We would like to go to Nova Scotia eventually. I got a nice quote on boat insurance from USAA/Markel and they said they could write an endorsement for Nova Scotia when the time comes probably not for a few years.
ksanders: I just read Passage Maker and enjoyed your letter very much!
plus all the different boats in the magazine of course :)
 
ksanders: I just read Passage Maker and enjoyed your letter very much!
plus all the different boats in the magazine of course :)

Wow, I didn't know they printed it. I havent looked at that issue yet.

Cool!!!

EDIT

I just looked at the online edition of passagemaker and was thrilled that they published my letter. :) :)
 
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Go for the N47 - bigger is better (at least in Texas !!)


We originally bought a Carver 37, than had to change it for a 50' Connie for the obvious reason. On more thing, If the wife is not comfortable inside, forget all the cruises !
 
As the Op must realize by now there are some mixed opinions on this form and throughout the remainder of the population. The key to picking the correct boat for any buyer is to match the boat as closely to the use patterns as possible. There are always trade offs and usually compromises. The NH boats are designed with blue water use in mind while there are many more boats designed for coastal ICW and the Bahamas. Almost all these boats are basically safe enough and then some. Most danger does not come from poor boat design or build it is usually the crews judgment or errors sometimes maintenance or defective equipment. I will throw my vote against the NH for the use you express and say for the same $ there lots more used boats that will do it in safety and style. It may make an owner feel good to think He or She owns the ultimate blue water boat, but the real truth is a NH is probably not even a second best sea boat to a well found sailboat at 2/3rds the size.
 
I yearned for a Diesel Duck with "go anywhere capability", but financial reality and knowing my waters were protected and being a gunkholer at heart, I settled for something less. Made the correct decision.


img_305722_0_ecf6def6c902dc00febb457a9823e25a.jpg
 
I'm with Twistedtree, go for the biggest you can manage. I've been on many models of Nordhavns and none of them would be a bad decision. With a shore base, a large on shore storage locker will make living on board a lot easier so when going south leave the parkas and when going north leave the bikini.

The 47 is a go anywhere vessel, which over time you may want to do. There are several 47/52 owners who have nice blogs you can read to get a feel for what around the world awaits you. A biggie, the Nordhavn company PAE provides you full factory support on the 47, still today. Few if any other builders can match Nordhavn in this respect.

And Nordhavn's quality is very good. Every time you get on the vessel you will feel good. A few others come to mind in this respect, very few. Good luck and get a tight invasive survey on the vessel you settle on. Even Nordhavns can suffer from neglect.
 
Jeez there were some nice boats among those listed on P1 by Cardude. If only I lived in the US, and had just won Lotto...
 
Well, the N40 is definitely out, thanks to all for your input. Thank you very much for helping me with that.
So that brings the size to the high 40s...
Now for the boat. I am going to discuss with my husband the expansion of our focus to other models.
I know for sure we will not be doing any blue water cruising as that was my requirement when we embarked on this journey :) I have seen too many movies ha ha
 
As brought up by others, check out the DeFever line. Headroom, storage, quality and sea keeping ability abound. This thread started out with a simple question and has now evolved into a free for all. Good for us regulars here as it creates excitement, but not good for the serious boat shopper.

Per chance you could define the playing field by stating a few simple wants such as:

Size range
Budget
Cruise speed
Maximum speed
Cruising range
Number of heads
Size of ER
Access to ER, opening a door vs lifting hatches
Number of staterooms
Covered fly bridge
One engine, one engine plus get home or twins

Last but not least, does your husband know we are spending his money. :eek:
 
Hi sunchaser:
My husband is blissfully ignorant about how you are spending his money, but he will know soon.
Thanks for your interest.
I have reproduced your list with answers below
Size range high 40s
Budget: not established but maybe 500k, or a lot less:)
Cruise speed: 6-7
Maximum speed: 8
Cruising range: East Coast, close to the coast
Number of heads: 2
Size of ER: we would like a stand up engine room, easy access
Access to ER, opening a door vs lifting hatches : opening a door
Number of staterooms: 2
Covered fly bridge yes
One engine: one engine plus get home or twins single engine with 1 get home
 
MT

Now I see why a N47 is high on your list. But $500K is down a bit from where the better ones will sell for. All the DeFevers will have twins (a positive in my opinion :thumb:), but otherwise fit your criteria. Another consideration - Selenes - their listed high prices do not always match the sale price.

With all used vessels, fix up costs can blow your budget. Try to find one that is already close to the way you want and in the long run may be the best buy.

Nice to see an Admiral that knows her stuff.
 
Thanks sunchaser. We will look at those. All thoughts very much appreciated. What a great community.
 
Maintrawler, I'm going to take this a little different direction for you.

Here are some of the common trade offs necessary to fit everything in a boat. As you learn about boats you'll find that generally its one or the other for these things.

Do you prefer...

* A covered cockpit, or an open to the sky cockpit

* The galley to be up near the salon area or down away from the salon area

* The lower helm to be in a room by itself, or the helm to be in the salon area

* How many bedrooms do you want? (remember to include some room for storage)

* How many bathrooms (probably safe to assume 2 bathrooms)

* A larger salon, or large side decks (larger side decks can make it easier to dock but a larger salon is well...Larger).

* A cockpit at basically the water level or is it OK to climb stairs to get on and off the boat. (very important if you have a dog).

* A flying bridge helm with a place to comfortably sit up high?

* If you want a flying bridge, do you need stairs or will a ladder be acceptable? (remember the pets, or mobility issues here?)

* Is your budget an amount you prefer to spend on a boat, or is it an amount you'd be comfortable spending but you'd prefer to spend less if it still meets both your functional and aesthetic needs?

Answer these questions and the boat type, and the size will pretty much pick itself.
 
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Hi again ksanders:
Thanks for the list. We would prefer:
a covered cockpit
a galley near the salon
the helm it its own room
2 bedrooms/2 baths
side decks would be great, wouldn't mind a reduced salon
a cockpit at water level (our English bulldog is on the heavy side)
A flying bridge helm with a place to comfortably sit up high, stairs preferred
our budget is an amount we'd be comfortable spending but if we could spend less and get what we want well now that would be great!
 
You can't touch a 47 with a 100' pole with a budget of 500 and less.
 
Hi again ksanders:
Thanks for the list. We would prefer:
a covered cockpit
a galley near the salon
the helm it its own room
2 bedrooms/2 baths
side decks would be great, wouldn't mind a reduced salon
a cockpit at water level (our English bulldog is on the heavy side)
A flying bridge helm with a place to comfortably sit up high, stairs preferred
our budget is an amount we'd be comfortable spending but if we could spend less and get what we want well now that would be great!

OK, from the features you prefer...

You're after a Raised Pilothouse design with a Flying bridge.
In order to fit your liveaboard needs and just knowing the tradeoffs of the raised pilothouse type boats its safe to guess that something in the mid 40' range and on up would work.

Since your cruising areas do not require ocean crossing capabilities then you can go on Yachtworld and do a search for pilothouse style boats. See what you like. Look at the cheapest, to the most expensive.

The only caveat you have here is the desire for a stand up engine room. The reason I say that is there are only a few <50' raised pilothouse design boats that have that feature. The reason for that is simple, it is a design trade off.

If you think about it, in order to have a stand up engine room you have to make room for it. One method is to raise the salon deck up. Since in a raised pilothouse boat the engine space is generally beneath the salon this makes sense.

Another method is to deepen the hull which increases draft.

Yet another method is to move the pilothouse aft and have the stand up part of the engine room beneath the pilothouse. This design can make for a much smaller salon though.

Its all a trade off. Is a stand up engine room a desire above all else, or is it a desire that can be compromised?

Another thing to consider is if you want the option of cruising faster than hull speed. Going at hull speed is nice, and it is necessary for ocean crossing. I can say that having the option to cruise faster in certain situations is very nice as well. For example if you want to make a specific anchorage, or marina by nightfall.

You have enough information to look at boats and see what you like. You might be drawn to the Nordhavn boats, you might not.

Whatever boat you choose, having it be a natural choice based on your intended mission will mean its the right boat for you.

I would not feel pressured to spend your entire budget on a boat unless thats what you want to do. I personally know of several TF members that could have purchased much more expensive boats than they did. They didn't chose their boats based on a need to spend budget amount. They chose their boats based on their requirements, and the budget worked itself out.

This is going to sound cliche but the view is just as nice from a hundred thousand dollar boat as it is from a million dollar boat. We all share the same anchorages. :)
 
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ksanders I really like this cliche, had not heard it: "the view is just as nice from a hundred thousand dollar boat as it is from a million dollar boat. We all share the same anchorages. "
I enjoyed reading your comments. They certainly give me a lot to think about and now I am researching anew. We have definitely widened our search. Thanks - millions :)
 
I know. And we were having so much fun spending your money :)

Seriously through, I think you are getting a lot of good advice. Just try not to be rushed. It takes a while to process it all, and your requirements list will likely evolve as you see more boats and think more about what matters to you, and which tradeoffs you are willing to make.
 
MT-I am surprised no one has mentioned Krogen to you. Have to admit I am biased, owning one, but for what you are intending, the 48' KK may be a good option. Same capabilites as the Nordy but to me, much more liveable interior. Plus, a few (sometimes very few!)$$ less expensive. I don't know your budget but there is even an almost new 52' on the market.
 
MT-I am surprised no one has mentioned Krogen to you. Have to admit I am biased, owning one, but for what you are intending, the 48' KK may be a good option. Same capabilites as the Nordy but to me, much more liveable interior. Plus, a few (sometimes very few!)$$ less expensive. I don't know your budget but there is even an almost new 52' on the market.

With a budget of 500k, she'd be looking at a 48 whaleback or a late 42 ...both capable boats in blue water as well.
 
MT-I am surprised no one has mentioned Krogen to you. Have to admit I am biased, owning one, but for what you are intending, the 48' KK may be a good option.
:thumb:KK displayed a Sydney TF member`s 48 at a recent boat show. Lovely boat,very desirable.
Mainetrawler, try separating your "wants" into "must haves" and "would likes". And do it in writing, it concentrates the mind, an aid to problem solving. Don`t be surprised if items migrate between lists.
 
Nordhavn Dreamers group

In addition to the fine folks here at Trawler Forum, may I suggest that you join the Nordhavn Dreamers group over at Yahoo Groups for additional information on Nordhavns. Many Nordhavn owners, past and present, can answer your questions over there.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NordhavnDreamers/
 
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