Nocanvas
Senior Member
If your boat is not registered in any state, it does not meet Michigan requirements. Wouldn't want the DNR to be there for your Spring launch...
Hows that it is not in the water It isn't going in the water there
If your boat is not registered in any state, it does not meet Michigan requirements. Wouldn't want the DNR to be there for your Spring launch...
Hows that it is not in the water It isn't going in the water there
Look, it's clear you made a calculated decision to register your boat on the east coast to avoid paying tax on the west coast where it's cruising. I never said it was illegal...it's simply a running tax dodge. Not much different than an LLC...the John Kerry example. I've been speaking in terms of ethical behavior. You're OK with taking advantage of what other boaters pay to support the marine infrastructure. Keep it moving, avoid tax, sell.
I don't know about the state that you're registered in. In WA. that up to 10% value of the boat (no cap) is a sales tax goes to the general fund, it supports things like needle exchanges and homeless camps. The annual registration fee which is .05% of your initial price or what the state decides it should of been (always higher) those monies also go in to the general fund and help support illegal immigration (aprox 1.5 to 2.5 billion annually in WA.)
As far as putting a boat in an LLC to avoid tax at least in WA. only benefits the next buyer. Tax is collected on the property placed in the LLC
Look, it's clear you made a calculated decision to register your boat on the east coast to avoid paying tax on the west coast where it's cruising. I never said it was illegal...it's simply a running tax dodge. Not much different than an LLC...the John Kerry example. I've been speaking in terms of ethical behavior. You're OK with taking advantage of what other boaters pay to support the marine infrastructure. Keep it moving, avoid tax, sell.
I don't know about the state that you're registered in. In WA. that up to 10% value of the boat (no cap) is a sales tax goes to the general fund, it supports things like needle exchanges and homeless camps. The annual registration fee which is .05% of your initial price or what the state decides it should of been (always higher) those monies also go in to the general fund and help support illegal immigration (aprox 1.5 to 2.5 billion annually in WA.)
My registration fee and use taxes go toward State boating/marine programs. Transient boaters take advantage of the infrastructure in my state when they pass through. If they pay their share in another state then that's ethical (never mind that the amount differs from state to state). If a boater consciously plans to circumvent state taxes/fees by altering cruising schedules/locations or uses the LLC trick for the purpose of avoiding taxes, that individual is taking advantage of those who do support the overall boating system/infrastructure.
But the question still stands. Where should I have registered, if not my state of residence, and why there versus some other place? How much should I have paid, and where, to meet your barometer? I lived in New Hampshire for many years and never paid any sales tax or income tax, because there is none. Was it then unethical for me to travel to other states and utilize services as a visitor?
TAX EVASION is a crime.
TAX AVOIDANCE is good citizenship.
"You're OK with taking advantage of what other boaters pay to support the marine infrastructure."
The lies come from the folks that collect "gas or road Taxes" and then pervert the tax cash into "transportation funding ", and we get light rail , buses ,sub$adi$ed commuter trains and unwanted high speed rail, ,that goes nowhere at monster cost..
I would love to learn where boaters payments support the instate "marine infrastructure."
Doubtful you were a full time transient when you lived in New Hampshire. You stated in an earlier post, there's nothing stopping you from registering in your home state and paying the tax....and added but why would I do that. Why not? (Rhetorical question) You have to meet your own barometer.
But I AM registered in my home state. My home state says Document or State sticker and bow numbers, but not both. I am documented.
But I DID pay the tax. $0 is due, so that's what I paid.
It's about supporting state marine infrastructure at large...not land side establishments or politicians. My sense is that you are content to let other boaters carry the load for you if you can find ways to do so. I do play by the intent and spirit of the rules, and I don't actively seek out ways to avoid doing my part. That's ethical in my book.
TAX EVASION is a crime.
TAX AVOIDANCE is good citizenship.
"You're OK with taking advantage of what other boaters pay to support the marine infrastructure."
The lies come from the folks that collect "gas or road Taxes" and then pervert the tax cash into "transportation funding ", and we get light rail , buses ,sub$adi$ed commuter trains and unwanted high speed rail, ,that goes nowhere at monster cost..
I would love to learn where boaters payments support the instate "marine infrastructure."
John Kerry and his LLC scheme in another state was practicing TAX AVOIDANCE....until he got caught. These endless cruising schemes are sailing down the same lane. Matter of time.
Check out how the State of Michigan uses boater fees. The (partially) state funded marina network is an example.
If Kerry got "caught" I doubt it was tax avoidance.....
Do you have a link to how Michigan does things? Thx.
Do you have a link to how Michigan does things? Thx.
Not exactly. You are not "Registered" in your home state. You have "met all legal registration requirements" of your home state.
This is the quibble I have, and it is indeed unclear.
A number of states say they welcome visitors if they are "registered" in another state. My quibble is with what "registered" means.
A number of people, I think you included, interpret that as meaning that the boat needs to have some sort of registration certificate or decal from another state. It's an understandable interpretation, but what happens when the visitor's home state doesn't provide state certificates or decals for documented boats? It's not just that I didn't have one. MA won't give you one. None of my documented boats have had a registration, and if you ask for one they will tell you to go away. Are those boats not welcome to visit other states? I think you are saying they need to go get a certificate or decal from some state, somewhere, to be welcome. So what state? Do I just pick one at random? Do I register (and pay taxes) in the first state I enter that does issue certificates for documented boats?
I interpret it differently, and I suspect others from states that don't register documented boats feel similarly. I interpret the "registered in another state" requirement to mean that you are in compliance with that state's boat registration laws. In a number of states, that means documentation is all you need. In other states you also need to get a certificate and decal. So there are lots and lots of boats from California, Alaska, Massachusetts, and probably other states that are properly registered according to their state's laws, but do not hold a state registration certificate as boats do in other states. It seems unreasonable to me that all those boats should be unwelcome in other states without registering there first, even if they are just passing through. It seems unreasonable for any state to stipulate what another state's registration requirements should be, or that they need to issue certificates.
I tested my interpretation in WA and it was accepted, but that's the only place I've been asked about it or challenged. And I've cruised through a lot of states, as have many other boats registered the same way.
I'm pretty sure Massachusetts and the other states who don't issue registration stickers for documented boats can be convinced that they need to get aligned with other states. Heck, this thread should be enough by itself. The additional revenue should make it a no brainer. Consider it done.
But as B&B pointed out, this is about registration, not tax triggers or tax revenue. I have always paid whatever MA tax has been due on my boats. MA has tax triggers on Documented boats too, even though they don't register them.
Not having a state registration DOES NOT MEAN you have not paid whatever taxes are due. It just means the state doesn't issue registration paperwork for documented boats.
And if you do have a state registration certificate, it similarly does not mean that you HAVE paid any taxes.
A registration is not a tax receipt, at least not in some states. Maybe this is where a lot of the confusion comes from.
BTW, the Kerry thing was never determined to be illegal or evasion. In fact, it was probably completely legal since the LLC owned the boat, and was an RI entity. The Supreme Court's decision about legal entities only further reinforces it. Kerry paid because the optics were bad, and he didn't want to be perceived as trying to cheat his home state.
I tested my interpretation in WA and it was accepted, but that's the only place I've been asked about it or challenged. And I've cruised through a lot of states, as have many other boats registered the same way.
Guys, someones “fair share” of taxes is what is legally necessary.
If there is a legal means of avoiding taxes, then well, it’s legal.
Like Twistedtree I live in a state that does not have a sales or use tax, nor a boat registration tax. I pay property tax, but once I retire (very shortly now) I will leave my home port and not pay property tax here anymore.
It is not illegal, or immoral, to structure your cruising (or any other aspect of your life) to minimize your tax burden legally. If that means choosing to leave one state just prior to a trigger date then so be it. If that means forming a LLC, or what ever other legal means to avoid taxes, then that is fantastic.
Businesses, and individuals make decisions based on the tax ramifications all the time, and boat related decisions based on taxes are no different.