travelling on the ocean whats considered safe

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Sunday looks the better of the two.

I'd go for a 30 minute shakedown the day before, as others suggest, if at all possible. There will be squeaky things, your fuel tanks will get stirred up, things will fall off the shelf.

One thing I'd add: take seasick meds. Even if you don't normally get sick, if you have to change a fuel filter in a hot engine room as you're rolling around, you'll be glad you did.

Good luck.
 
I may be missing a point but if you are in Manasquan - hug the coast up to New York and then go across to Long Island.
I am late to the party - but it is a West - Northwest wind - the coast will provide coverage. The waves you are concerned about are about 10 miles or more offshore. Let the land provide you coverage on your way up. It may be slower but in my opinion that is the safer route.
YMMV
 
psneeld said:
Safe is a funny word.

My experience with new boat owners and boat training in general is .....people who ask general questions versus very specific area or weather questions....should err to the safe side when the time comes to shove off.
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Wifey B: Is it safe? Can a skilled experienced boater do it in your boat without dying? Yes. Can you? Likely. But will you be uncomfortable and scared? Likely. As psneeld says, he who questions as you did, is saying he doesn't feel safe doing it. I know how each or our boats handles in various conditions and I'd feel safe with hubby and me doing it. I've not run the Mainship you have but I'd likely know after running it a bit in the bay as you have. However, when I started I had no idea. 100,000+ nautical miles later in all sorts of conditions I'm fine in the forecast conditions. Now, one other thing is I do make decisions based on those with us too. Most of those who go with us are experienced and unphased by a little roughness. However, if we had new, inexperienced people with us, then we'd likely not do it. Don't want to scare someone away from boating, especially your family. :D
 
SILENTKNIGHT said:
My destination is northeast to Babylon (Fire Island Inlet ) . i plotted it to be 57NM...i will run close to shore line from Manasquan inlet to Sandy Hook then north east to fir island inlet
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Sunday still looks like a great day on the water. There is a decent low pressure semi-stalled over Boston right now that is disrupting weather in your area. This system is forecast NE starting later today. Seas tomorrow behind the system are acceptable but would be uncomfortable even if you hug the coast. Sunday still looks much improved if your schedule permits.

If for some reason Saturday is preferred for scheduling purposes, you could poke your nose out the inlet a few miles and get a sense of acceptability. Conditions are forecast to improve slightly over the day so if you find the early indicators acceptable, you should be okay for the rest of the day. Looks like slack water at Manasquan is 7:21am tomorrow (7:57 on Sunday). If you needed to return, would be on a flood tide which is favorable.

Good luck!

Peter
 
While I agree shore hugging while transiting is often a safe bet along the Jersey shore...it it usually done with consistent westerlies and there was some easterly winds in the recent past.


Here is the current forecast.


SAT NW winds 10 to 15 kt with gusts up to 20 kt, becoming W late. Seas 3 to 4 ft. Swell mainly from the E with a dominant period of 10 seconds.

Yes probably safe, but still could be uncomfy with the easterly swell on the beam and getting gusts to 20 when past Sandy Hook.

Not sure how bad it might actually be...this is where a morning buoy report or beach cam comes in handy.

https://njbeachcams.com/central-new-jersey/manasquan-beach-cam-and-surf-report/
 
so far the plan is leave Saturday morning 6:30am. Hug the coast 25NM north to Sandy Hook. Then East to fire island inlet 35 NM. 3 foot seas & 10-15 mph winds but probably less close to the shore and 10-15 mph winds. NW, The wind will come at my bow , im good with that. By the time i get to sandy hook , the wind should be behind me. Shes a slow ride @8knts. Im familiar with her as i spent 3 days on her from Annapolis. Had some rough experience with her through Delaware down to s
Sandy h
Hook, so i know how she feels . But i stay below (lower helm) .
 
i meant to say i had rough travel on her as i went from Deleware river to cape may so i have a sense of how she goes in rough waters for 3 hrs
 
I want to thank all the members for the positive & supportive comments. This forum is great because of the comraderies of team work & safety !
 
rgano said:
Crossing the Big Bend in my heavier GB42, I always looked for 1-2 foot seas, and sometime in the 19-hour run it always got worse. The 34T being lighter will make for a rough ride (not necessarily unsafe unless you personally are adversely affected). If you are unwell and thus unaware in choppy seas, then it is prima facia unsafe. With winds tending to come off the continent toward sea, why not make a longer run hugging the shore? Seas generated in a short fetch coming offshore will have shorter periods for a good way out to sea.
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This is true and good advice, and I'm sure you already know this, but I will point out that the big bend is different than the Atlantic, or at least the parts of the Atlantic that I have been in. Which, admittedly, does not include the area that OP is asking about. Seas in the northern Gulf are almost always super steep with a very, very short period. A Gulf 4 footer hits you harder than an Atlantic 6 footer.


I'm with you on the hugging the coast with an offshore wind technique. I've done that a few times with strong NE winds for the Big Bend crossing, hugging the 10' deep corridor. It is pleasant in those conditions, whereas 3 miles further offshore would be absolute misery.
 
That part of the Atlantic suffers from wave reflection and wind versus current with the water flowing in and out of Raritan Bay and just plain geography being a bight. It is not always as easy to forecast and changes with tidal flow too.


Here is some local forecasting and real time info....


NYHOPS: Urban Ocean Observatory at Davidson Laboratory
 
I’ve done this route more than once. I was stuck once up the Navesink in Fair Haven for 5 days waiting for a weather window.

It’s your decision on when to go but...

First, blowing 20-25 is different off the NJ coast than in the ICW. (Well most of the ICW anyway)

Second, if you change your mind once you are out there off the NJ coast, it’s too late as there is no place to go.

And, watch out for the current vs. wind interface at the Manasquan Inlet. (One of the problems taking a peek outside at that inlet is that is tougher to get into than to get out of.)

Take a look at the Windy app and Predict Wind app. You want them to agree for that run.

The app I use for waves is SwellInfo. (The NOAA info is for further offshore, SwellInfo is the surfer’s app.)

Finally, while you are waiting in Manasquan, get the Point Pleasant train schedule for both incoming and outgoing trains. It will give you an idea when the bridge is going to be closed. (Don’t forget to look at the weekend schedule.)
 
Swellflo is a good asset. Strongly prefer passage weather for offshore. Much prefer arrows to colors. Think passage weather has a better low baud interface. Like switching back and forth between pressures, winds and waves easily. Also girbs are all from the same sources. You’re taxes are paying for the US modeling. Paying twice makes no sense to me although I do make voluntary contributions to passage weather. I usually download US and European girb modeling, take a peak at surface and 500mb, read NOAA and my weather router (if I have one at the time). Then decide go/no go. Don’t care if you’re dinghy or board sailing, fishing off a small center console or on a trawler think a read of something like weather for sailors or Chesneau and doing a brief course is as worthwhile as any other training or education you go for. Think that knowledge would reassure the OP now and in the future.

PS and others have thoughtfully shared good knowledge based on that foundation. NJ coast is a shallow gradual shelf. Depending on how far it extends offshore where you are at the moment, direction of current prevailing winds and swell coming in off the Atlantic from prior wind there’s a band where seastate is more disturbed. Sometimes being off that shelf in much deeper water makes for a much more pleasant ride. Sometimes being very close to shore is preferred. But pretty much much of the time that band exists and should be avoided if possible. Looking at what’s been going on in deeper waters and predicted swell as well as hyper local conditions allows you to predict with fair accuracy how fair offshore you want to be.
 
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Is called pleasure boating for a reason. It’s not endurance boating!
 
I made it it was very easy. I left at 6:45 am and arrived @ 3pm . Great ride. No issues . I hugged the coast and took on 3-4 foot swells. 15mp winds. Sunny skies all day

Thank you all for your support & guidance. This TRAWLER COMMUNITY IS THE BEST VOICE OF REASON !
 
FWIW,

My son & I were coming north from Lady Finger Marina. We figured we could make some distance by going outside. NOAA said "1-2 ft with 10-15 knt winds". 3 hours later we got 8-10 ft waves and 30-40 knt winds. 11 hours later we limped back into Lady Finger for 2 days of cleanup and recovery. Beat the snot out of us, but we survived, Lost the dink, and the starboard side railing was pulled out of the deck mountings.

We stayed inside after that.

Stay close enough to shore to run inside quickly if you need to.




T-Man
 
StarChaser said:
FWIW,

My son & I were coming north from Lady Finger Marina. We figured we could make some distance by going outside. NOAA said "1-2 ft with 10-15 knt winds". 3 hours later we got 8-10 ft waves and 30-40 knt winds. 11 hours later we limped back into Lady Finger for 2 days of cleanup and recovery. Beat the snot out of us, but we survived, Lost the dink, and the starboard side railing was pulled out of the deck mountings.

We stayed inside after that.

Stay close enough to shore to run inside quickly if you need to.

T-Man
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Use multiple sources of weather and sea conditions. Also read and interpret carefully. NOAA is just one and not generally as focused on sea conditions as needed.
 
We can do 3' as long as they're not on the beam. Our trawler rolls and it's uncomfortable. We are in the process of installing paravanes in hopes that rolls will be mitigated.
 
3’ seas are an average. You can have an occasional wave or wave train of 6’. In any case these should not present a safety problem for your boat.

However, wave conditions are reported swells, which are generally reported by average wave height, direction and period. In addition you have wind waves. If swells and wind waves are from different directions you can have confused seas which can cause your boat to both pitch and roll.

As mentioned winds opposing waves (swells) can cause some pretty bad chop. Same applies to tidal currents.

Ideally you would want wind waves and swells from the same direction. Following 3’ seas could provide a good comfortable ride as long as if didn’t introduce a significant yaw leading to a broach.

Again ideally if you were in head seas you would want them 15 to 30 degrees off your bow as opposed to head on.

As they say your boat can handle the seas much better than you can. Waiting for favorable weather is never a bad choice:
 
Glad you made it OK

SILENTKNIGHT said:
I made it it was very easy. I left at 6:45 am and arrived @ 3pm . Great ride. No issues . I hugged the coast and took on 3-4 foot swells. 15mp winds. Sunny skies all day

Thank you all for your support & guidance. This TRAWLER COMMUNITY IS THE BEST VOICE OF REASON !
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You were fortunate, while conditions are sometimes better than forecast, as often as not the conditions are worse/significantly worse than forecast. Having planned bail-outs is very important. Remembering that many of the Atlantic inlets are unsafe for passage exactly at the time you need them, especially with outgoing tide against wind/swell, is also important.
 
bill.kimbell said:
You were fortunate, while conditions are sometimes better than forecast, as often as not the conditions are worse/significantly worse than forecast. Having planned bail-outs is very important. Remembering that many of the Atlantic inlets are unsafe for passage exactly at the time you need them, especially with outgoing tide against wind/swell, is also important.
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I'm not going to comment on him specifically and whether he was lucky, but I am going to make a general statement.

Just because one makes a trip and arrives does not mean it was a wise trip to make. One must work to separate good judgement from good luck. When we use to visit Cruisers Forum we would see constant references to someone making a transoceanic trip or circumnavigating alone on a 6' Styrofoam sailboat (ok I exaggerated that part) and people using that as a basis to decide the voyage was safe. If I'm coaching basketball and I have the worst shooter on the team take the final shot and he makes it, that still doesn't mean I had the right person taking the shot. Funny thing though is we Monday Morning Quarterback all failures but don't look at the successes as carefully.

Just we all must be careful not to get lured into a lull of complacency.
 
I live on the south shore of Long Island in the Great South Bay and have made the trip many times.

Coming from Manasquan Inlet to Long Island is not hard trip in fair weather. The prominent wind direction is from the SW, so you'll probably have the wind at you back. Should it be northerly, you do have the option of riding the NJ coast up to NY Harbor and then east along the Long Island shore for protection.

One question, are you planning to travel to the south shore of Long Island? If so, I do suggest taking the Rockaway Inlet. This shortens the distance in the ocean and from there you'll be on the inside the rest of the way. If traveling to northeast destinations beyond Orient Point, suggest the same. However, if you traveling to destinations in the Long Island Sound, either the north shore of LI or south shore of Connecticut, I suggest taking the East River to the LI Sound. Hells Gate has strong tidal currents, so make sure that you are traveling north at the right tidal direction.

Be careful in Manasquan Inlet and make sure to follow the buoys all the way out. My concern for you is actually the exit and entrance of the inlets, not the open water. I suggest picking a nice day, with good visibility and under 3 foot wav height forecast.

If you should need any further info regarding travel within the Long Island waters, let me know.

Enjoy
 
Back in post #44....


"I made it it was very easy. I left at 6:45 am and arrived @ 3pm . Great ride. No issues . I hugged the coast and took on 3-4 foot swells. 15mp winds. Sunny skies all day

Thank you all for your support & guidance. This TRAWLER COMMUNITY IS THE BEST VOICE OF REASON !"


Nice to discuss the finer points.... but he had some god advice, musta done his homework and it turned out as he wanted/expected.
 
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twistedtree said:
As I recall, from Manisquam to NY there are no real bailout points?
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Look at and read the Coast Pilot for that area, on the chart there are few cuts back inside, but LOCAL KNOWLEDGE is highly recommended. Plan accordingly.
 
I'm sorry, but the OP wasn't lucky. It was just an accurate forecast and he was good to go

If a forecast of 3-4 feet at 7-9 seconds is going to keep you in port or away from going outside, that's fine. But those are manageable conditions, especially when you can shield yourself by staying close to the beach.

Jeez. You'd think the op threaded a needle or something. There are a million reasons not to leave a berth. For some, anything other than flat calm seas is one of them. If you learn to push past that, the world opens

Peter
 
I just saw this way past your departure date. I'm curious as to what you did and how it turned out. I have made the cruise in both directions off NJ, from Manasquan, Atlantic City, and Barnegat. My rules are, avoid winds from the north, especially the NE, and wave height must be less then half of wave period.
Joe
 
That was my stomping grounds growing up, 20 years of commercial work and 8 years USCG.


I don't think he was lucky, but I will be the first to say without some live data the day of, that stretch of water has defied many a forecast...not to dangerous levels but to certainly uncomfy levels. Rarely do any forecasts jump several standard deviations.


Dead of summer, much more predictable except for thunderstorms. This month can be a might less predictable.
 
Safe? Yes. Comfortable? Maybe, maybe not depending on boat, wave period, direction of travel vs wave direction, individual tolerance for boat motion, etc. When considering all of that, a good rule of thumb is to remember that 3-4' seas means occasionally there will be a 3' on top of a 4'! Ditto for 2-3', etc.
 
BandB said:
I'm not going to comment on him specifically and whether he was lucky, but I am going to make a general statement.

Just because one makes a trip and arrives does not mean it was a wise trip to make. One must work to separate good judgement from good luck. When we use to visit Cruisers Forum we would see constant references to someone making a transoceanic trip or circumnavigating alone on a 6' Styrofoam sailboat (ok I exaggerated that part) and people using that as a basis to decide the voyage was safe. If I'm coaching basketball and I have the worst shooter on the team take the final shot and he makes it, that still doesn't mean I had the right person taking the shot. Funny thing though is we Monday Morning Quarterback all failures but don't look at the successes as carefully.

Just we all must be careful not to get lured into a lull of complacency.
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A professional stock trader whose wife is a psychologist once told me that in her opinion tempting financial ruin and living to tell the tale was the most dangerous thing a trader can experience. Having a big position, knowing you should bail out when it runs against you and you can do it cheap, and before you know it you are in serious trouble. If by good fortune things reverse and ruin is avoided, you think you can survive anything. And that bad psy is what creates ruin in the future, since the disciplines are now shot.

That is no comment at all on the OP's decision and experience. I'm just agreeing with you about success and failure, luck and wisdom.
 
Manasquan to LI

Hi...I made this run...there is no bailout as you're trying to cut the corner and once you do "you're in for a penny, in for a pound". I'd probably wait til a nicer day if you have the time, I wouldn't enjoy 3-4' in my 34' Pilot. Option is to hug the NJ coast as there are plenty of bailouts and then cut across to Brooklyn but then you've doubled your travel time to get to the same spot and/or go inshore at Breezy Point/Rockaway or Long Beach. Also check if there is a small craft advisory, if so I'd wait it out.
 
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