Travels with Weebles

[mvweebles]

It’s 4am at the San Diego Guest Dock and the sea lions are bellowing. Planned departure to return to Ensenada is 5AM. Goal for the 5-day, 65-nm run up and back was for a longer sea trial and to knock the dust off our cruising skills. Yesterday, we spent the day running into San Diego Bay along the city front and anchored three times (re-anchoring twice). Turns out much of San Diego is gooey mud. Launched the dinghy once.



Anchoring in San Diego on a nice Saturday is great spectator sport. One 40-ish foot Clorox-bottle boat spent 45-minutes trying to get their puny anchor to snare something before giving up and moving on (pic attached). I watched several boats drag in the fresh breeze.



Friday was spent with a good friend who happens to be a crackerjack mechanic. He helped with two issues: First, my Northern Lights 6kw generator; and sorting through my dual Balmar alternator setup.

Alternators: Honestly, not sure I even have a problem. But I really need to fine-tune the settings on my entire system, including solar. Part of the challenge is I have not stress-tested the system with deeper discharges from full inverter reliance. I am not too concerned – my friend gave me some excellent pointers on troubleshooting the system.

Generator. I’ll have to dig-out the old TF thread on this, but I had a dead AVR (Auto Voltage Regulator). Northern Lights said mortality rate on these are extremely low and, when I sent pictures of the junction box wiring, they said it had clearly been messed with (true). So they would not warranty the AVR, an $800 item. My Mexico electrician cobbled-together an aftermarket AVR which works fine, but I was still unsure if the NL AVR was actually dead. Thanks to my friend, I now know: It is toast. A replacement OEM/NL AVR is difficult to source so I’ll run the $20 aftermarket for a while. I have come to the conclusion that some work just should not be attempted in a foreign land - basic electrics are fine. Anything Balmar or Victron or LFP are a bridge too far, and least right now.

Calibrating the A/P. A good part of yesterday was futzing with the Simrad MFD system. The challenge I have with stuff like this is finding the right menu. Most frustrating is stumbling upon an adjustment, then later realizing that you need to make a change and not being able to re-find the menu. When I was delivering, I knew these setup routines like the back of my hand. Turns out the knowledge was highly perishable. But I do remember an important mindset: for heavier, displacement style boats, the settings often need to be retarded (slowed) versus advanced, which can be counter intuitive.

Weather for today’s run: There is a storm developing several hundred miles west of Baja that seems to be influencing weather. Forecast for today is 4-6 feet from the SW at 10-seconds so will have about the same head seas as we did on the way up 5-days ago. Uphill both directions.

Peter

 

[Turtle Blues]

Fair weather to you today.
Have been following the rebuild for quite a while and know it must be a good feeling to be back on the water.
Your postings and the discussions they generate are quite valuable. I was in the middle of an AP setup and discussing another that had the same offset issue as your Simrad posting. Instantly all core issues and remedies there for the reading.

 

[ScottC]

Some teething issues are to be expected, considering the amount of work you've done.
Congratulations on a successful launch and maiden voyage!!!
It's been interesting following your refurbishment thread.

 

[Hippocampus]

Good you’re moving forward. Hope no gremlins in the future. As usual we’re behind you. Going back to the boat in around a week to ten days. Who knows what we’ll find. Your ahead. Found the troubles and fixed them.

 

[Simi 60]

.

Generator. I’ll have to dig-out the old TF thread on this, but I had a dead AVR (Auto Voltage Regulator). Northern Lights said mortality rate on these are extremely low and, when I sent pictures of the junction box wiring, they said it had clearly been messed with (true). So they would not warranty the AVR, an $800 item. My Mexico electrician cobbled-together an aftermarket AVR which works fine, but I was still unsure if the NL AVR was actually dead. Thanks to my friend, I now know: It is toast. A replacement OEM/NL AVR is difficult to source so I’ll run the $20 aftermarket for a while.

Keen to see how it goes.
And if working now, at $20 buy 2 more.

When we first got ours the AVR was short lived (hours) and $700 for replacement which we did.
7 years latter there are strange things happening on occasion so I bought a yum cha AVR for $50 as a spare.

So like I said, keen to hear of its longevity for you.

Have fun.

 

[slowgoesit]

Calibrating the A/P. A good part of yesterday was futzing with the Simrad MFD system. The challenge I have with stuff like this is finding the right menu. Most frustrating is stumbling upon an adjustment, then later realizing that you need to make a change and not being able to re-find the menu. When I was delivering, I knew these setup routines like the back of my hand. Turns out the knowledge was highly perishable. But I do remember an important mindset: for heavier, displacement style boats, the settings often need to be retarded (slowed) versus advanced, which can be counter intuitive. Peter

This is so prophetic! We've run in to exactly the same issues with Raymarine! The manuals are pretty useless. I've been told by techs twice now: "Don't follow the manual, do "this" instead and it will work. Heck, youtube is more helpful than the manual . . .

Hope the rest of your shakedown goes well. Hope to meet up with you in Ensenada.

 

[guy with a boat]

Its great to see the thread topic go from repairs and upgrades to shake-downs and travels!

Looking forward to following along as you de-bug things and head south.

 

[mvweebles]

Thar she blows!

It’s 5:20 am and we left San Diego exactly 24-hours ago We ran about 70nms in 11 hours or so.

Weather. Windy forecasts often report multiple swells but it’s rare that they are detectable. Yesterday’s lack of wind made them very visible. Clearly 4-6 feet from the west (slightly aft of our starboard beam); and 3-4 feet from the NW (starboard aft – quarter). Seas subsided a bit as we neared Ensenada but for the most part, pretty regular cork-screw motion.

Gremlins. The A/P course/heading is working fine now, though we did have to power-cycle the system when it lost all navigation data for some reason and reverted to “A” (autopilot vs “N” navigating to a waypoint or route). I have a friend who is tremendously suspect of interfaced electronics and likes to say that he cannot remember a trip where there wasn’t a Crazy Ivan or some other insurrection. Tough to disagree with him.

The starboard side stabilizer fin has a slight knock to it. Recall, these are new Wesmars. I spent some quality time in the engine room trying to detect the source – does not feel like it’s coming from the actuator linkage (bushing), so wonder if the fin itself is somehow loose on the shaft. Gets added to the ‘punch list’ of items for Weebles’ final Mexico haul one week from today.

For those with Gyro stabilizers (that would be Hippocampus); and those with some sort of in-water active appendage (including Scot & Laura on Muirgen with paravans), I picked up kelp on both fins despite having deflectors ahead of each fin (deflectors, or ‘kelp cutters’ are just a small triangular piece of thin metal intended to keep kelp or rope from wedging between the hull and the fin). Not exactly easy to dislodge.

Sidebar to the kelp: upon entering our slip in Ensenada, I had a monetary loss of reverse at a very inopportune time: just as I was backing-down to slow momentum into the slip. Fortunately, over the years I’ve really slowed my approaches but it was concerning. It was only after we were tied-up that I discovered the kelp-fouled fins so my thinking is that going to reverse somehow sucked kelp into the prop and wrapped the shaft until the line cutters dislodged. Haul next week may prove interesting.

The run was a long day. I haven’t talked to Cheryll about it yet, but I know she’s probably thinking “how the hell are we going to do longer passages?” Honestly, crossed my mind too. Our commitment is we will go until its not fun anymore or we make it to Florida. On the plus side, we did spot a pair of whales with a calf. Not a great picture.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

The run was a long day. I haven’t talked to Cheryll about it yet, but I know she’s probably thinking “how the hell are we going to do longer passages?” Honestly, crossed my mind too. Our commitment is we will go until its not fun anymore or we make it to Florida. On the plus side, we did spot a pair of whales with a calf. Not a great picture.

I've found that travel days start to feel shorter and easier the longer we spend on the boat. Go away for a 3 day weekend and a 3 hour run sometimes feels pretty long (especially after a few weeks of just taking the boat out for the day). But by the end of a week or more trip, a 3 hour run feels like minutes and 6 - 8 hour runs are no big deal.


For the kelp, I wonder why nobody makes fins that rake aft at more of an angle along their leading edge? I'd think between deflectors and a fin with more rake, you could get more of the kelp to slide down the fins and off the bottom.

 

[Hippocampus]

For those with Gyro stabilizers (that would be Hippocampus); and those with some sort of in-water active appendage (including Scot & Laura on Muirgen with paravans), I picked up kelp on both fins despite having deflectors ahead of each fin (deflectors, or ‘kelp cutters’ are just a small triangular piece of thin metal intended to keep kelp or rope from wedging between the hull and the fin). Not exactly easy to dislodge.

If it makes you feel better. There’s no free lunch. Unlike the past in recent travels have had to pay a lot more attention to strainers. Been picking up more weed, grass and gunk. Yes I’m happy it’s inside not out but still a hassle. On the sailboat going through the Sargasso Sea edges weed on the the balanced fin rudder was a real issue. Even putting on the engine and going backwards didn’t help at times. But found stopping completely, waiting, and then poking with an extended dock pole from the swim platform worked. Unfortunately some times had to launch the dinghy to get the strings hooked into the top off. PIA. Hope you can reach your fins from the side decks.

 

[socalrider]

Do you have a kelp stick? That's what we SD sailors use, especially when racing, to clear rudders and keels. Might be able to make it work for your fins. Here's an example; I imagine you can find something less expensive. Sailors love carbon fiber.
https://trends.nauticexpo.com/project-32431.html

 

[twistedtree]

My fins are a bit of a magnet for bull kelp, despite having kelp cutters. The leading edge of the fin is sloped and will shed kelp, but it has a way of getting up between the top of the fin and the hull. I suspect the size of that gap is a big factor. I have had this issue on my last boat.


That said, any caught kelp has never been a real issue of any kind. The worst that happened was a piece where the knot at the end of the kelp was banging against the hull. I thought it was something coming loose in the stabilizer. Come to think of it, this might be the source of your knock. That's sure how mine sounded. I was quite concerned until I figured out what was going on.

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

The run was a long day. I haven’t talked to Cheryll about it yet, but I know she’s probably thinking “how the hell are we going to do longer passages?” Honestly, crossed my mind too. Our commitment is we will go until its not fun anymore or we make it to Florida. On the plus side, we did spot a pair of whales with a calf. Not a great picture.

Peter

I'm really curious how this will go with Scot and I too. We had my daughter coming down to Bodega Bay and she's young and took a long 5 hour shift smack in the middle of the night, so that helped. I actually did a long shift the night we had rough weather, because I couldn't sleep anyway. It worked fine, but could I do it for days in a row, I'm not sure? Could Scot? I guess we will try in out coming down to San Diego and see how it goes for a shorter trip. Really hope we get to meet up with you and talk in person about the experience. Fair Sea and Calm Winds.. Laura

 

[MYTraveler]

My fins are a bit of a magnet for bull kelp, despite having kelp cutters. The leading edge of the fin is sloped and will shed kelp, but it has a way of getting up between the top of the fin and the hull. I suspect the size of that gap is a big factor. I have had this issue on my last boat.

FWIW, my kelp cutters are 100% effective at preventing kelp from wedging between the fin and hull, despite a sizeable gap between the two. But the design is such that, really regardless of the position of the fin, kelp will have a hard time getting in. Mine are Wesmars, and the pivot point appears to be a bit forward of the fin's centerline.

 

[mvweebles]

Simrad AIS Day. 3-hrs of my life I cannot get back

GEEK WARNING – today’s missive goes deep into AIS/Tech Support.

My Simrad system was installed 2-years ago. While it has mostly been configured, I neglected the AIS function. At the time, due to space limits, I went with the Simrad RS40B combined AIS transponder (Class B) with VHF. This requires an antenna splitter (Navico NSPL500). When I fire-up the VHF, I get an error which I largely ignored thinking it was a basic configuration item and I’d get to it eventually-----which was yesterday.

I can receive AIS, but not transmit. The warning is some sort of VSWR error which has something to do with the antenna or antenna port. Now, the Simrad manual clearly states the radio needs to be pre-programmed by the retailer which in this case was Hodges Marine. When I went to send them an email to see if this had been done 2-years ago, I found that I had already asked them 2-years ago and didn’t get a response. This time I did hound them a bit and they had no idea. TIP: The only ‘pre-programming’ the retailer does is insert your MMSI number and vessel characteristics. This apparently is required by FCC for some bizarre reason, but it’s easy enough to do (and I had already done it 2-years ago). Hodges had no idea and said I should call Simrad Tech Support.

“You are caller number 14 in queue.” Thus began my afternoon 3-hour wait to whittle down to “You are next in line.” After some perfunctory troubleshooting (“is it turned on?”) and another 45-minutes with the tech, Simrad’s Level 2 tech declared the radio must be sound, but either the splitter or the antenna was bad. This made no sense – clearly the Splitter was exonerated when the antenna was moved direct to the VHF thereby bypassing the splitter. And the Antenna works fine on TX/RX for 25w VHF transmissions vs the paltry 2w AIS transmission. How they proclaimed the radio as sound is beyond me but said they would gladly service the out-of-warranty radio for $600 (plus shipping).

Now, I fully understand the radio is out of warranty and I told them what I was about to ask was unfair in a way but I am gonna ask it anyway: They’d have to trust me it has never worked, that Hodges never responded. So I want them to do something more than just service the radio for $600. I want them to forward-ship a new one and exchange it. We can either work out something or I’ll go postal online rather than spend another dime with Simrad. Surprisingly, the tech was mildly sympathetic and will talk to senior managers this morning to see if there is an alternative. I figure my chances are slightly better than winning the Powerball but I’m a sucker for lost causes so will wait.

But….waiting does not mean setting aside a Plan B. The Simrad RS40B is the only VHF with AIS transmit – even after 4-years on the market, ICOM and Standard Horizon have not introduced a similar function (though SH was rumored to have one that never came to market). I have to wonder why.

I did some sleuthing on what’s out there for AIS TX/RX and found a few nuggets:

• Class B transceivers used to be limited to 2-watts (about 5-mile range) but are now permitted to 5-watts (10-mile range). Most Class B’s are still 2-watts. Class A go to 12.5-watts so broadcast to 25-miles.
• Some AIS sets have wifi and Bluetooth to broadcast to your PC/Phone navigation platform
• Some come with integral antenna splitters which saves a few hundred bucks.

Miltech Marine has a way-cool chart comparing the various AIS offerings HERE. I have reached out for a recommendation.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Personally, I'd go for a good VHF (or preferably 2 of them) and then a separate class B+ AIS transceiver. If you can fit an extra antenna, do that and skip the splitter.



In my mind, for any reasonably priced VHF, it's Standard Horizon or Icom. SH is made by Yaesu, who is big in the HAM radio world. I don't place nearly as much faith in the quality (both durability and actual TX/RX quality) of the units sold by the other big electronics brands. I'd much prefer a unit from a company that lives and breathes radios.

 

[ofer]

I know i keep saying Furuno although not trying to spend your money. you have already spent quite a bit.

I just installed the Furuno ais class B transponder purchased from hodges.

it's an independent unit that outputs N2K.

has its own GPS receiver, In/out for the VHF. no need for a splitter. took 1 hour to install and works perfectly.

oh and BTW I have never been on hold calling Furuno techs. and usually there is a nice lady answering the phone, no need to punch numbers.

 

[ofer]

BTW Peter how do you know the AIS does not transmit? The TX light barley flashes not like the receive light. did you check with other boaters or marine traffic?

 

[mvweebles]

UPDATE - Simrad just called me back. I send them my radio. They send me a new one. Done. More than fair.

I know i keep saying Furuno although not trying to spend your money. you have already spent quite a bit.

I just installed the Furuno ais class B transponder purchased from hodges.

it's an independent unit that outputs N2K.

has its own GPS receiver, In/out for the VHF. no need for a splitter. took 1 hour to install and works perfectly.

oh and BTW I have never been on hold calling Furuno techs. and usually there is a nice lady answering the phone, no need to punch numbers.

In general, I am pretty happy with my Simrad system, but as you note, the tech support call was a challenge.

I'll go one step further. The last 6-months of my refit/preparedness have seen quite a few integration/configuration issues (Victron for example). If anyone were to ask, I give two simple pieces of advice.

1. WHO you buy from is more important than what you buy. Honestly, with exception of 3-hour hold time for customer service, the differences between Furuno and Navico and Raymarine are not significant. Hodges, one of my go-to suppliers, has zero technical support. I'd look more carefully for a knowledgeable retailer.

2. Installation does not necessarily include configuration (which in my mind, includes optimization of settings for a particular environment and use-case). There is real value in hiring an electronics expert to install and configure a system. There is value in DIY too, but the learning curve is steep to get the configurations best adapted for your use case.

BTW Peter how do you know the AIS does not transmit? The TX light barley flashes not like the receive light. did you check with other boaters or marine traffic?

There are several indicators to AIS transmit failure. First is the VSWR error code that pops up. Second is the tiny AIS icon in top banner of the VHF radio display screen that alternates between black background and white background (solid black is transmit). Third, the AIS TX LED indicator on the splitter does not illuminate. Finally, deep in the AIS setup menu, it is simply not possible to force it into "ON" setting, presumably due to the VSWR error (signaling some sort of impedence issue on the antenna port). I did check some of the Marine AIS sites - Weebles is a no-show, but according to a MillTech article which I cannot find, that's a very common issue for a variety of issues such as there not being a ground-based receiver nearby.

Peter

 

[ofer]

UPDATE - Simrad just called me back. I send them my radio. They send me a new one. Done. More than fair.

There is real value in hiring an electronics expert to install and configure a system. There is value in DIY too, but the learning curve is steep to get the configurations best adapted for your use case.
Peter

I would be surprised if the experts know more than you. your knowledge is vast IMO

 

[Hippocampus]

Over the course of the last three boats have consistently found independent gps pucks and antennas give much better and reliable performance than shared gps and splitters. Like you we got rid of RM, don’t like Garmin so went with Simrad. We left the existing VHF(icon) . Gave the AP its own gps and AIS its own antenna. My electronics tech told me there’s no reason to not go with a non big 4 AIS. We got a no name that works fine.
Found your post of interest. Of prior boat in mid ocean with antenna 65’ up got excellent AIS (send and receive with a standard AIS. Not even B+. ) Always thought it’s line of sight so beam spread, earth curvature, unobstructed path are important. Just like antennas for VHF vary in fundamental characteristics given it’s the same family of frequencies that’s true for AIS. Forget where I read about how to choose VHF and AIS antennas. But when I had the current simrad system installed tech did vary things and told me the same stuff. . Think coastal it probably isn’t as important but you travel near shore where range may have more importance.

 

[twistedtree]

So you only want/have a single antenna, hence the splitter?

Just confirming how it’s hooked up:

- AIS pl259 jack on radios uses special cable and connects the the BNC AIS input on the splitter.

- VHF PL259 jack on the radio connect to the PL259 VHF input on the splitter.

- ANT PL259 jack on splitter goes to antenna

Is that right?

Did you try connecting the antenna directly to the AIS jack on the radio? Did that give the same VSWR error on power up?

 

[mvweebles]

So you only want/have a single antenna, hence the splitter?

Just confirming how it’s hooked up:

- AIS pl259 jack on radios uses special cable and connects the the BNC AIS input on the splitter.

- VHF PL259 jack on the radio connect to the PL259 VHF input on the splitter.

- ANT PL259 jack on splitter goes to antenna

Is that right?

Did you try connecting the antenna directly to the AIS jack on the radio? Did that give the same VSWR error on power up?

All correct. And yes, bypassed the splitter with antenna direct to the AIS antenna PL259 connection with same VSWR error.

I asked the Simrad tech if the antenna may cause an issue since it was designed for VHF vs AIS (it's 156hz). He said they've had no issues related to that. Neither of the manuals for the VHF and the NSPL splitter mention anything about antenna frequency.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

All correct. And yes, bypassed the splitter with antenna direct to the AIS antenna PL259 connection with same VSWR error.

I asked the Simrad tech if the antenna may cause an issue since it was designed for VHF vs AIS (it's 156hz). He said they've had no issues related to that. Neither of the manuals for the VHF and the NSPL splitter mention anything about antenna frequency.

Peter

Then it definitely seems to be the radio.

The differences between an VHF and AIS antenna are immaterial for a test like this. They just have slightly different tuning.

 

[Jeff F]

I'd check the cabling and especially connectors before swapping out the radio. That's a specific alert that shouldn't have anything to do with setup or unit configuration.

If you're thinking of adding a second antenna you could buy one and plug it in to confirm that the problem is with the unit.

 

[mvweebles]

I tried to borrow an antenna from the boatyard but the uses ones they had were all missing the PL259 connector when they were uninstalled. I have a second VHF down below that had it's own antenna but there is no reasonable way to route the cable to the upper helm where the AIS VHF is located. Besides, I think the antenna is most likely just fine. Works fine for VHF tx/rx and AIS rx.

My theory (only a theory) is there is something with the internal wiring on the AIS antenna port on the radio. This radio has been in the market for a little over 3 years and mine was fairly early. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of known issue which is why Simrad agreed to service/replace an out-of-warrenty radio. But that's only a guess.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

What prevents you from moving the radio to lower station to use the 2nd antenna?

 

[mvweebles]

What prevents you from moving the radio to lower station to use the 2nd antenna?

Lack of out-of-box thinking. Never occured to me. I may try it in the morning and see what happens, though my lower station has a twin antenna. But would not take long - radio is out sitting on my counter. Wiring it into the lower station would take 15-minutes.

Thanks - good idea.

Peter

 

[Simi 60]

When we did our AIS a new antenna with 20m of cable was cheaper than any splitter.
Went with this one from GLOMEX for $40usd

https://www.glomexstore.com/classic/543-ra111ais-14cm-ais-antenna.html

Importantly, enough cable to mount antenna well aft away from all other interference.

 

[mvweebles]

What prevents you from moving the radio to lower station to use the 2nd antenna?

I tried this ---- same error. But thanks for the suggestion.

I posted this on TheHullTruth to see if there were others using the radio who experienced same issue. A lot of tips to troubleshoot - there's a guy who seems pretty knowledgeable who is certain the issue is antenna frequency. THe instructions for Vesper Cortex M1 supports his contention: "Choose a high quality omni-directional VHF antenna designed for the marine band (156-162MHz) and ensure it is well tuned at the AIS end of the band (VSWR 2:1 or less at 162MHz)."

The install literature for Simrad is similar to Si-Tex: "Connection to a suitable VHF antenna will be required for the AIS Transceiver to operate. A standard marine band VHF antenna such as that used with VHF voice radios will be sufficient."

I'll ship it tomorrow to Simrad so will know in a couple weeks.

Thanks everyone - Peter