Trawler vs. other yacht styles
- Thread starter Bigal6030
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
RT Firefly
Enigma
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2008
- Messages
- 13,738
- Location
- California Delta
- Vessel Name
- FlyWright
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Here's Big Gay Al from South Park, compliments of remwines and his boyfriend, Steve.
Attachments
North Baltic sea
Guru
Hi Jim,
I understand your thoughts 100% because here diesel costs around $ 6 / gallon. I was lucky when I last searched for a new (mine) boat. The Nordic tug 37 can fold that 6000nm / 1184gallon. This fuel consumption is based on our 2017 cruise bookkeeping of about 1900nm + about 120 genny hours is 5nm/gallona. The calculated average speed of about 6 knots includes harbor maneuvers etc.
NBs
You can read more this link
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/season-2017-how-much-do-you-have-35532.html
Last edited:
markpierce
Master and Commander
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
- Messages
- 12,557
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Carquinez Coot
- Vessel Make
- penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
A recreational trawler is unable to exceed hull speed and consumes less than two gallons an hour, but this site is not exclusive since most here have faster and hungrier cruisers.
Last edited:
markpierce
Master and Commander
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
- Messages
- 12,557
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Carquinez Coot
- Vessel Make
- penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
A true recreational trawler isn't capable of exceeding hull speed and will consume less than 2 GPH diesel fuel. Mine (14 tons powered with 80 HP) at a knot below hull speed (6.3 knots) consumes about half of your 3.2 GPH.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
Large areas of the loop are very speed restricted so high, go fast, fuel use is not possible.
Even 60GPH boats are more economical at near idle.
Gasoline boats have few problems being operated hours on end at near idle.
Even 60GPH boats are more economical at near idle.
Gasoline boats have few problems being operated hours on end at near idle.
Last edited:
ranger58sb
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 7,349
- Location
- Annapolis
- Vessel Name
- Ranger
- Vessel Make
- 58' Sedan Bridge
I'm happy to be corrected.
My guess was just based on our trip from FLL to Annapolis in our previous boat, a gasser about the samel size as OPs and with twin MPI 7.4s. 131 engine hours, about 1471 gals, ~11.2 GPH total... and that was probably running on plane slightly more than half of the time.
Can't remember what we calculated for the distance, something like 1100 NM plus/minus I think. If so, that'd be something like .75 NMPG. I thought the reason we did so (comparatively) well on that trip was because were were puttering along sightseeing much of the time, too.
Didn't realize gassers might not burn significantly less fuel at slow speeds? Although I would expect carbs to be less efficient than injection...
-Chris
Alabama Boater
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2016
- Messages
- 110
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Always Something!
- Vessel Make
- Tiara 3700 open
The fuel usage between big block MPI and older carb version is much different. I have had some experience with each. The MPI engines were Magnum 502's and would get about 1.5-1.7 mpg @ 10mph. I had twin carbed 454's - 340 hp. It made no difference what speed I ran ... if slow, hull speed, 1 mpg. Go to cruise at 25 mph and dropped to .9 mpg. This was over a 1100 mile trip down the Ohio and up the Tennessee. Another friend had 38' Carver with carbed 454's and found 1 mpg was his best economy. Big blocks are fuel hungry but can be mitigated with MPI to some degree.
cardude01
Guru
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2012
- Messages
- 5,290
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Bijou
- Vessel Make
- 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
I would think MPI gasser economy and running "smoothness" near idle would be way better than the carb versions.
But with gassers (and I'm assuming a gas generator), sleeping in hot states on the hook with the AC on would be sketchy, right?
But with gassers (and I'm assuming a gas generator), sleeping in hot states on the hook with the AC on would be sketchy, right?
To the OP, if you have not yet seen it, the AGLCA is a good place to start.
Regarding to trawler or not, a lot of given advice will be based on responders likes and needs. Most folks buy trawlers because the boats fit their lifestyle. Most folks buy motor yachts for the same reason.
Personally, my next boat is a motor yacht. For me, sometimes it is the journey while other times it is the destination. I could foresee several areas of the loop (examples, coastal NJ, the Great Lakes, the Gulf of Mexico) where I would like to travel faster than trawler speeds. On some other threads, forumites have posted that sometimes it's nice to haul butt to get to the next stop early, so that you have the whole afternoon to enjoy said destination.
While some folks buy boats just to do the loop, I hope to buy a boat a year or two before any long distance cruising to get a feel for the boat and set it up for my needs. I also plan to keep said boat for a long time thereafter.
I see the additional cost of fuel to be less than the cost of buying and selling a boat purchased for just the Great Loop.
Jim
Regarding to trawler or not, a lot of given advice will be based on responders likes and needs. Most folks buy trawlers because the boats fit their lifestyle. Most folks buy motor yachts for the same reason.
Personally, my next boat is a motor yacht. For me, sometimes it is the journey while other times it is the destination. I could foresee several areas of the loop (examples, coastal NJ, the Great Lakes, the Gulf of Mexico) where I would like to travel faster than trawler speeds. On some other threads, forumites have posted that sometimes it's nice to haul butt to get to the next stop early, so that you have the whole afternoon to enjoy said destination.
While some folks buy boats just to do the loop, I hope to buy a boat a year or two before any long distance cruising to get a feel for the boat and set it up for my needs. I also plan to keep said boat for a long time thereafter.
I see the additional cost of fuel to be less than the cost of buying and selling a boat purchased for just the Great Loop.
Jim
Nomad Willy
Guru
Trawlers are about weight and slow.
Light and fast need not apply.
However there’s one boat that defies the light part. But only one IMO. Albin 25
Remember Marin? He had a classical heavy trawler (GB36) and bad mouthed it for 10000 posts. Now if he went in the direction he said he was going he has light and fast. But now instead of having trouble w slow he’ll be bashing light.
There’s great benefits to weight and slow. The main one being low fuel consumption. So a lot of broke blokes wind up w trawlers. Then they even complain about their low fuel consumption. Mostly because their boat is too big.
But trawler is about style. AusCan is right. And image is a huge part of style. Most trawler skippers see themselves as big hairy chested big tugboat captians. People ride trawlers like they have the same image as Harley’s. But the old and wise kinda falls off the cliff there.
But lots of different kinds of trawlers. The Albin 25 is a trawler and there are a few people that fit that mould. People that fit that mould don’t have boats that are “big bruisers”. The A25 is perfect. People in this trawler class are a bit like computer nerds, tree huggers, nice and friendly and never pretentious.
On the other end there is the big pretentious hairy chested (in their minds) guys w a deep voice and lots of wise old salt written all over them. Their boats make some bold amount of noise that says “big guns” and speaks w authority. They do what most of us dream of doing and w/o a whimper. The vast majority of trawlermen (mentally at least) lean in this direction.
Then there are the tweeners. Serious family men and dock socialites w one wimpy foot in the big gun image but way far from it. The tweeners could be oddballers or just an average Joe sorta lacking in pretentiousness. Actually the tweeners could be the majority of trawlerites. There’s not enough balls to go arounf to have all that many hairy chested big gun types. So the tweeners or peripheral big gun types are probably the average trawlerite.
So the vast majority of us aren’t like Republican or Democrat but independants. Seeing ourselves as special but never declaring how so. But the nerdy types w their Albin 25’s are light years away from the big gun types w their 30 ton deep sea trawlers w the right stuff. But the word independent perhaps applies to many or most or even all. I’ve babbled a bit and perhaps stumbled across a real commonality. Perhaps we’re just independant of the everyday boaters and boats embracing something special that just our small amount of pretentiousness leads us into the trawler arena and won’t let us out the back exit to sailboats, skiboats, family cruisers, sportfishing boats or any of the other general boating styles or boats.
There is indeed a wide variety of boats that make up “trawler” and even more kinds of people that are trawlermen. We all have our own notion of what trawler is that probably justifies our claim to belong to that group. And to many it’s important to belong. So there are probably about as many trawler type people and trawler type boats as there are people and boats.
Light and fast need not apply.
However there’s one boat that defies the light part. But only one IMO. Albin 25
Remember Marin? He had a classical heavy trawler (GB36) and bad mouthed it for 10000 posts. Now if he went in the direction he said he was going he has light and fast. But now instead of having trouble w slow he’ll be bashing light.
There’s great benefits to weight and slow. The main one being low fuel consumption. So a lot of broke blokes wind up w trawlers. Then they even complain about their low fuel consumption. Mostly because their boat is too big.
But trawler is about style. AusCan is right. And image is a huge part of style. Most trawler skippers see themselves as big hairy chested big tugboat captians. People ride trawlers like they have the same image as Harley’s. But the old and wise kinda falls off the cliff there.
But lots of different kinds of trawlers. The Albin 25 is a trawler and there are a few people that fit that mould. People that fit that mould don’t have boats that are “big bruisers”. The A25 is perfect. People in this trawler class are a bit like computer nerds, tree huggers, nice and friendly and never pretentious.
On the other end there is the big pretentious hairy chested (in their minds) guys w a deep voice and lots of wise old salt written all over them. Their boats make some bold amount of noise that says “big guns” and speaks w authority. They do what most of us dream of doing and w/o a whimper. The vast majority of trawlermen (mentally at least) lean in this direction.
Then there are the tweeners. Serious family men and dock socialites w one wimpy foot in the big gun image but way far from it. The tweeners could be oddballers or just an average Joe sorta lacking in pretentiousness. Actually the tweeners could be the majority of trawlerites. There’s not enough balls to go arounf to have all that many hairy chested big gun types. So the tweeners or peripheral big gun types are probably the average trawlerite.
So the vast majority of us aren’t like Republican or Democrat but independants. Seeing ourselves as special but never declaring how so. But the nerdy types w their Albin 25’s are light years away from the big gun types w their 30 ton deep sea trawlers w the right stuff. But the word independent perhaps applies to many or most or even all. I’ve babbled a bit and perhaps stumbled across a real commonality. Perhaps we’re just independant of the everyday boaters and boats embracing something special that just our small amount of pretentiousness leads us into the trawler arena and won’t let us out the back exit to sailboats, skiboats, family cruisers, sportfishing boats or any of the other general boating styles or boats.
There is indeed a wide variety of boats that make up “trawler” and even more kinds of people that are trawlermen. We all have our own notion of what trawler is that probably justifies our claim to belong to that group. And to many it’s important to belong. So there are probably about as many trawler type people and trawler type boats as there are people and boats.
Wifey B: We did the loop in the most un-trawler boat here. For our purposes it was great. We wouldn't recommend it as the boat for anyone else doing the loop. However, we just sold it to a man and woman who saw it on the TN river and now intend to use it on the coast and then on the loop.
Didn't intend to sell it but don't have plans to start the loop again for about 3 years and got an unsolicited offer we couldn't refuse. Put 777 hours on it and covered 12,351 nm. Not really crying as it was the smart thing to do. If we were ready to start again would choose the same builder's updated version. However, in three years lots can change.
In the office today. Well finishing lunch at the moment. But seas today are 9' at 7 seconds and winds 22 knots from the NE so office is a good place to be for the day.
Didn't intend to sell it but don't have plans to start the loop again for about 3 years and got an unsolicited offer we couldn't refuse. Put 777 hours on it and covered 12,351 nm. Not really crying as it was the smart thing to do. If we were ready to start again would choose the same builder's updated version. However, in three years lots can change.
In the office today. Well finishing lunch at the moment. But seas today are 9' at 7 seconds and winds 22 knots from the NE so office is a good place to be for the day.
C lectric
Guru
If the Silverton , in general, suits you then find out what it will burn at trawler speeds of 7K to 8K.
Your theoretical hull speed, 32ft length used, is theoretically about 7.5K. You shouldn't run at that because it is also the start of the climbing onto plane speed which will likely be thirsty.
Drop to 6.5K to 7K which should be a good speed for economy. ie. miles per gallon.
Then test your boat at those speeds. Find out for sure what the fuel use will be so you don't make a boo boo based on dock talk about economy.
Then make a decision.
If you simply want a different boat then fine but don't make a decision with out actually knowing how your boat will perform.
I only skimmed the thread so it someone already said this then ignore.
Your theoretical hull speed, 32ft length used, is theoretically about 7.5K. You shouldn't run at that because it is also the start of the climbing onto plane speed which will likely be thirsty.
Drop to 6.5K to 7K which should be a good speed for economy. ie. miles per gallon.
Then test your boat at those speeds. Find out for sure what the fuel use will be so you don't make a boo boo based on dock talk about economy.
Then make a decision.
If you simply want a different boat then fine but don't make a decision with out actually knowing how your boat will perform.
I only skimmed the thread so it someone already said this then ignore.
Last edited:
caltexflanc
Guru
In my personal experience, planing boats often have a higher "hull speed" than displacement boats of the same length. You can usually see that in boat tests and specs that show the mpg at various speeds. Depends on the boat. So as the saying goes "YMMV"!
Codger2
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,691
- Location
- US
- Vessel Name
- Circuit Breaker
- Vessel Make
- 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
I couldn't agree more! Although I really loved our little 32 Gourmet Cruiser for 8 years, (8.4 knots) The ride in the 20 knot Ocean Alexander is exhilarating!( Fuel bill be damned!)
Attachments
Tom.B
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5,839
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Skinny Dippin'
- Vessel Make
- Navigator 4200 Classic
I couldn't agree more! Although I really loved our little 32 Gourmet Cruiser for 8 years, (8.4 knots) The ride in the 20 knot Ocean Alexander is exhilarating!( Fuel bill be damned!)
Yea, I hear ya... it’s like driving a house at 20 mph. I love it. ;-)
Sailor of Fortune
Guru
The Albin 25 is a serious small cruiser. I agree its slow as molasses but suits many cruisers. I had one and had some fun with it. I think its very inferior to the ALLWEATHER 26 for seaworthiness and use of space. In all fairness the AW only had 31 hulls made, where as the Albin had many. I would like to have a reasonable cruise speed of 10 knts without straining engine. That means longer wl or more power or both...
Nomad Willy
Guru
Jack how does 8.5 knots grab you? A 25 w the original hull.
I ran mine at 8.5 knots for a year. Was a repowered boat w a 3HM35F (34hp) 3cyl Yanmar. Lighter than the original Volvo and less power .. a fly stuff amount.
Lately I’ve seen A25’s running faster on the water and can only guess their power.
I can explain why they go faster than hull speed while most call them FD boats. But I’m not going to take up that much space. Not much interest in Albins and very few boats.
Jack/Steve .... which one is it?
I ran mine at 8.5 knots for a year. Was a repowered boat w a 3HM35F (34hp) 3cyl Yanmar. Lighter than the original Volvo and less power .. a fly stuff amount.
Lately I’ve seen A25’s running faster on the water and can only guess their power.
I can explain why they go faster than hull speed while most call them FD boats. But I’m not going to take up that much space. Not much interest in Albins and very few boats.
Jack/Steve .... which one is it?
Sailor of Fortune
Guru
My name is Jack for everyone but Baker! LOL. It was part of the debauchery of last years Southeast TF get together.
8.5 kts is much better. The Albin is small inside, I liked it but at 6'4 shes just cramped. The 40'navy capts gig is an Albin on steroids. Double cabin, faster (easy 10 kts cruise) and still reasonable economy. You have to put your own touches on it.
8.5 kts is much better. The Albin is small inside, I liked it but at 6'4 shes just cramped. The 40'navy capts gig is an Albin on steroids. Double cabin, faster (easy 10 kts cruise) and still reasonable economy. You have to put your own touches on it.
Sailor of Fortune
Guru
He does now. What was said and experienced at TF Get together ,stayed at TFGT. Everyone had fun,no animals were harmed!
LarryM
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 1,069
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Pelago
- Vessel Make
- Wellcraft 3300 Coastal
I couldn't agree more! Although I really loved our little 32 Gourmet Cruiser for 8 years, (8.4 knots) The ride in the 20 knot Ocean Alexander is exhilarating!( Fuel bill be damned!)
Walt,
Same here, Boomarang my Fales 30 was a sweet boat, but she was so slow. I no longer have that problem, but I do miss the constant compliments. I'm sure it was the same for you with Seahorse II.
Change of Command last Thanksgiving.
Attachments
ok Iam totally new.Looking at 2 trawlers,one Thompson 47 ft and a Cheoy
lee LRC 45 ft.
Plan,if Thompson is purchased ,remove the detroit and install a new john deere that research shows has exceptional power,reliability and fuel economy.1400 gal of fuel on board so good distance could be accomplished.
The Cheoy Lee is pretty much turn key with two Cats 3208 ....the plan once deciding which boat is to travel from Ft MEyers along the coast ,thinking 50 miles offshore,to Newfoundland,up to Greenland,over to Iceland,then onto Denmark .Family live there and have not seen them for a bit.So question,Thompson or Cheoy Lee?Look forward to the debate
lee LRC 45 ft.
Plan,if Thompson is purchased ,remove the detroit and install a new john deere that research shows has exceptional power,reliability and fuel economy.1400 gal of fuel on board so good distance could be accomplished.
The Cheoy Lee is pretty much turn key with two Cats 3208 ....the plan once deciding which boat is to travel from Ft MEyers along the coast ,thinking 50 miles offshore,to Newfoundland,up to Greenland,over to Iceland,then onto Denmark .Family live there and have not seen them for a bit.So question,Thompson or Cheoy Lee?Look forward to the debate
Sailor of Fortune
Guru
I would think twice before removing the Detroit unless it was a blown motor. The payback on an engine swap of an old Thompson Trawler would be decades if the fuel use is the measure.
Maybe live with the Detroit Diesel or find another boat to purchase. You would never recoup the repower costs.
FF
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2007
- Messages
- 22,552
"Although I would expect carbs to be less efficient than injection..."
Perhaps at certain speeds and very specific loading , but remember a good carb is $300 , an injection pump is $1000. to rebuild
injectors are $75 each to rebuild, and some work to install, spark plugs $4.00 each
The cost of std maint must be part of the cruise bill if you want to count fuel costs.
6+ gallons of diesel lube oil ,vs 5 quarts of cheaper oil, and should work be required a gasser mechanic is far easier to locate than a good diesel guy.
IF I were setting up a gasser to run the loop I would install a Vacuum gauge ($20.)) and run at whatever slow speed I got before the secondaries opened.
Most places it will be faster than the local speed limit of 10 kilometers /hour, 6 mph.
High speed in smooth water is great fun , but very expensive in a 35+ ft boat.
Just the required Stidd seats are $6,000+ each , if you value your spine.
Perhaps at certain speeds and very specific loading , but remember a good carb is $300 , an injection pump is $1000. to rebuild
injectors are $75 each to rebuild, and some work to install, spark plugs $4.00 each
The cost of std maint must be part of the cruise bill if you want to count fuel costs.
6+ gallons of diesel lube oil ,vs 5 quarts of cheaper oil, and should work be required a gasser mechanic is far easier to locate than a good diesel guy.
IF I were setting up a gasser to run the loop I would install a Vacuum gauge ($20.)) and run at whatever slow speed I got before the secondaries opened.
Most places it will be faster than the local speed limit of 10 kilometers /hour, 6 mph.
High speed in smooth water is great fun , but very expensive in a 35+ ft boat.
Just the required Stidd seats are $6,000+ each , if you value your spine.
Last edited:
