Two Cruise Ships Collide

[sunchaser]

Ask anyone in who actually lives in Ketchikan what value they receive from the dozen jewelry stores which appear in late April and disappear in September, employing no locals .

You're assuming the jewelry stores are the reason cruise ship passengers flock to Ketchikan. I'm not sure this is true. Alaska is a popular destination from its mere beauty alone and passengers pay dearly for that experience. Even Cunard is going there now, there is a reason and it is not jewelry stores.

The SE AK economy is driven by fishing, mining, construction, services and government. With the North Slope revenues to the state drying up the cruise industry has added much appreciated seasonal local jobs and tax revenue.

Sure, I'd like to travel in and around AK in our vessel and not see cruise ships. But the locals and the State government disagree for simple economic reasons. If they agreed with the selfish reasons we cruisers put forward, there wouldn't be an AK cruise business.

 

[AlaskaProf]

You've inverted my argument. The ships don't flock to the jewelry stores, the jewelry stores, which benefit absentee owners, flock to the ships because of "Sutton's Rule".

It is quite possible to savor the beauty of SE Alaska without dumping 15,000 souls a day into a small town.

As to taxes, the cruise lines pay a "head tax" to the state, which is expended on infrastructure supporting the cruise industry, who lobbied bitterly to avoid this levy.

 

[CaptTom]

I know that in Bar Harbor (Maine) there's definitely a love/hate relationship with the cruise ships. Let's face it, no local likes thousands of tourists descending on their town, especially all at once. But just about everyone on the island depends on the tourist business, if not directly, then indirectly.

These passengers do add to the local economy. Of course nobody likes the ones who come ashore just to walk around, and spend no money. But enough do pull out their wallets that it's worth it. And some are really big spenders. Everyone has a story or two about a huge purchase made by a wealthy passenger. It must be even more impactful (both positively and negatively) in a less affluent port.

 

[Olebird]

Four words you never want to hear after the command "ALL STOP" ?


What was that noise?

 

[BandB]

The passengers and employees love cruise ships. The tax collectors love cruise ships.
.

Let's clarify a couple of things. Tax collectors do not love cruise ships. The cruise lines pay virtually no income tax. The ships are flagged with flags of convenience and no payroll taxes are collected.

Most passengers do love them. The vast majority. The ones who don't are those caught in bad situations, either storms or illness created and they don't love the reactions of the cruise lines and ignoring their problems while thinking only of their revenues.

Employees do love them as most employees are from countries where jobs are low paying and benefits are lousy. Employees from other countries are not happy with their jobs, with the pay, with the work and hours, or with the lack of benefits.

My biggest single issue though is Carnival and other cruise lines that benefit primarily from US passengers picked up in US ports, don't pay US taxes. Not their fault but a weakness of our tax code.

 

[Group9]

Ask the Bahamians who were displaced from their island so that it could be turned into "Castaway Cay" what they think of the cruise industry.

Actually, the Colombian drug smugglers had already displaced the people who lived on Castaway Cay, before Disney took it over.

The place does have an interesting history.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1835901/blackbeard-doesnt-come-here-anymore

 

[Dougcole]

Actually, the Colombian drug smugglers had already displaced the people who lived on Castaway Cay, before Disney took it over.

The place does have an interesting history.

https://www.outsideonline.com/1835901/blackbeard-doesnt-come-here-anymore

Thank you for posting this link, very good read. I read in the Dodge Guide that it was Disney that pushed them off their farm plots, sounds like the drug smugglers got to it first.


I'm not sure who is worse, Disney or the drug cartels.

 

[Group9]

I'm not sure who is worse, Disney or the drug cartels.

For sure, LOL!

 

[Chrisjs]

We first visited Nassau, Bahamas about 35 years ago. Nassau was a relatively busy place with a few decent restaurants. Since then we have been back a few times. most recently earlier this year. Each time we visit we see the destruction to the downtown area caused by giant developments such as "Paradise Island" and the 3-4 large cruise ships that visit almost every day. The town dies at night. Almost all restaurants close at 5pm because visitors have all gone back to their ships or remote hotels. You walk deserted streets after 7pm. So, I guess the real question, regardless of how I or other visitors feel, is whether the average Bahamian resident is better off or not? For my part, my last visit is definitely the last time I shall visit Nassau. The outer islands are better provided you avoid the cruise ship islands with water slides and hundreds of pre-arranged deck chairs, and water toys. And apart from the Bahamas, the same scenario is also happening in Bermuda. People flow into town for a few hours then depart on large ships without contributing much to local economy.

 

[oscar]

Strangely, the Dream was supposed to dock in Cozumel today as well, but the captain chose to bypass the attempt after getting very close to the dock and seeing the windy conditions. Some say he was zipping right along, but had the sense to keep going. This was an hour before the Carnival incident.

I think said Captains track record will be under close scrutiny.

 

[PM]

I agree 100% with Dougcole. They keep building these monsters and people are getting sick, they are ruining natural sites, they are ugly, have a huge carbon footprint, on and on..

Many are now being "stretched" but what happens to the others that are suddenly deemed "too small" sometimes only a few years old, more garbage.

They are generally foreign flagged, they don't have to follow labor laws, OSHA, pay taxes or be sanitary. They dump millions of gallons of waste into the sea.

I hate them, I cringe when I see one. Sink them all and make un natural reefs!!

pete

 

[rtheriault]

Firing someone is an admittance of blame. Usually wait until all the insurance claims and liability issues are taken care of then fire the captain.

 

[Conepatus]

Very simple, current, wind and bad luck.

 

[BrianSmith]

The ports of call love cruise ships. The passengers and employees love cruise ships. The ship owners, builders, re-fit yards etc love cruise ships. The tax collectors love cruise ships. Shore facilities such as airports, hotels and busboys love cruise ships.

Those with no skin in the game and who don't in general like the business, well we can tut tut when the inevitable occurs.

Most folks with an active concern for the ocean environment do not love cruise ships, in particular the ones who repeatedly violate the regulations, even after being found guilty of doing so and fined.
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/04/7296...h-20-million-penalty-for-environmental-crimes

 

[Dougcole]

Most folks with an active concern for the ocean environment do not love cruise ships, in particular the ones who repeatedly violate the regulations, even after being found guilty of doing so and fined.
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/04/7296...h-20-million-penalty-for-environmental-crimes

My God. This is exactly what I was talking about, the cruise lines are a blight on the earth. I mean that in a literal sense, with no sarcasm or hyperbole intended.



The judge should have followed through on her threat to ban them from US ports, that's the only thing that would get their attention.




There is no cruise ship business on a dead planet. It's astounding that they don't see that.

 

[pete s]

does anyone think, watching that video... that for a ship of that size, he was coming in a tad "hot" ?? my boat is a real lot smaller.. and i was always taught that "mistakes", or "bad judgement", are a little "less worse" at slow speeds?? Merchant Marine lessons always say "max speed approaching a quay is less that 0.4 kt"...

 

[rslifkin]

does anyone think, watching that video... that for a ship of that size, he was coming in a tad "hot" ?? my boat is a real lot smaller.. and i was always taught that "mistakes", or "bad judgement", are a little "less worse" at slow speeds?? Merchant Marine lessons always say "max speed approaching a quay is less that 0.4 kt"...

Based on the mentions of it being a windy day, they were likely following the rule of "as slow as possible but as fast as necessary"


Getting too slow while docking with high wind or current can end up making life harder even though slower is normally easier and safer.

 

[dbaoter]

Before you all make comments, take a moment to consider the situation, weather, currents, maybe the bridge environment. You are not able to move a 100,000 tons on a whim. Do you always make great docking all the time.

The other side: the damage was well above the watet line, temporary repairs can suffice for awhile. In the shipping industry this is in the category of a big fender bender .

 

[BandB]

Before you all make comments, take a moment to consider the situation, weather, currents, maybe the bridge environment. You are not able to move a 100,000 tons on a whim. Do you always make great docking all the time.

The other side: the damage was well above the watet line, temporary repairs can suffice for awhile. In the shipping industry this is in the category of a big fender bender .

Wifey B: People have trouble docking every day and occasionally boats suffer some damage in the process, generally just cosmetic and above the waterline. Not even sure this quite qualifies as a big fender bender, maybe just moderate one. Big would have been getting the third boat involved. Big was the Westport boat in Port Angeles.

 

[Chrisjs]

Given the size of these beasts and how frequently they dock, it is surprising there are not more alisions or collisions. Speaks volumes for the skills of the masters, who also need to double as customer friendly hosts. Having said all that, I still think large cruise ships do a disservice to most ports of call.

 

[markpierce]

Three of five cruise ships docked or anchored at Juneau:

 

[Benthic2]

Cruise ships support the local economy in all of the shore excursions that are sold and tremendous port charges that are paid. You can't fault a passenger for returning to thier ship to eat dinner since the food is fantastic and already paid for. Then there will be some sort of entertainment, like a magician or a stage show of some sort....again..all paid for.

The ship is the destination, the ports of call are minor aspects of a vacation on a cruise ship. I would guess most people, when planing a cruise, make their decision based on the ship, and the sailing dates.....not the ports of call.

 

[Nickair]

With that much weight a contact causes damage that is amazing quickly.