two engines or one

[backinblue]

Let me guess, a drop into canister up top like my camaro

On the VW if I remember, it's underneath by the oil pan. Not super hard, just not as simple as a spin-on. I would think it's a more expensive design, but I'm sure there's a reason somewhere.

 

[KnotYet]

How much throttle do you have left do you have the throttles pegged or about halfway if you are running at 34 3600 RPM the only reason that engine hasn’t blown up is because it’s a Perkins if it is a 4–236 one of the best engines ever made if it was a Ford You would’ve blown it up guaranteed Need to know what engine you have and if turbo charged if it is I need to know that

Wait, what? I recognize that writing style!

Agree about the 4-236, though I doubt you could get one to spin that fast!

My Perkins did use some oil once when the breather hose got pinched. Not its fault.

 

[High Wire]

Bad assuming the tach is right. There should be a label on the side of the injection pump. It will tell you what wide open throttle RPM in neutral is. Take a picture of it and the engine for us please.

 

[Bugaboo]

Perkins 4–108 is a 3600 RPM engine running it up against the governor especially for 19 days UGG!!! .Would be a fairly decent engine for that boat but mostly they over powered boats so I expect 4–236 motors.If they actually had Straight 10 weight There’s your problem it got better over time as he added heavier weight oil . Overfilled because of a dipstick is a small possibility as well , I’m done

 

[Nomad Willy]

Let me guess, a drop into canister up top like my camaro

Yes
It was easy once I knew where it was.
“drop in canister” = pull the pleated filter out and insert new as I remember. Can stays in car.

But now the most modern car I have is an 06 Avalon. Too much automatic stuff. l’m about to get rid of it. It’s the top of the line model “Limited”. Push to start ect.

 

[koliver]

That oil consumption is similar to what I had in my 60s muscle car when it was fully worn out and desperately needed a rebuild. On a trip across the country I literally carried a case of oil in the back seat. It was all used by the end of the trip.

 

[Slowmo]

I spent a career in lubricant development. A 10W is NOT the correct viscosity for that engine. It is no surprise it was using a lot of oil. Those engines should run on SAE 30 API CD engine oil. These days mostly you can get 15W30 API CK-4, which is way more than you need but should work fine. Anyway, try the SAE 30 or 15W40 and see if the oil consumption returns to normal. The engines may be just fine unless you've got stuck rings or some bore polish.

 

[FF]

IF I were to build a new boat , my choice would be 2 engines with a single massive center line protected shaft.


OTS from landing craft.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Nomad Willy wrote;
“But now the most modern car I have is an 06 Avalon. Too much automatic stuff. l’m about to get rid of it”

I take it back. Today I saw an illuminated little light in the instrument cluster that looked like a key. Bothered me for a mile or so but eventually the light came on … I left the key fob home. Went home and got it. Maybe I’ll think again about all those bothersome things on that car. Despite today the troublesome side is ahead but it is a nice car. 13 yrs old though .. Is it an old car?

 

[Bugaboo]

IF I were to build a new boat , my choice would be 2 engines with a single massive center line protected shaft.


OTS from landing craft.

If I was to build a boat I would spec one very good engine the 2 engine thing ok

 

[SteveK]

Thinking of this thread, two engine or one I went looking for a 2 engine Tesla. I passed on it however as the salesman could neither find the dipstick or tell me what oil to use.

 

[backinblue]

Nomad Willy wrote;
“But now the most modern car I have is an 06 Avalon. Too much automatic stuff. l’m about to get rid of it”

I take it back. Today I saw an illuminated little light in the instrument cluster that looked like a key. Bothered me for a mile or so but eventually the light came on … I left the key fob home. Went home and got it. Maybe I’ll think again about all those bothersome things on that car. Despite today the troublesome side is ahead but it is a nice car. 13 yrs old though .. Is it an old car?

It's a Toyota and I'm guessing not many miles. They will run forever if you want them to. I wouldn't worry about the years ubless you want some newer technology or things are beginning not to work. My newest car is a 2018 and I like the cameras and warning sensors if I get too close to something or I'm backing up and somebody walks behind my car or something similar. However, they are even less user-friendly for maintenance. Not even an oil dipstick to check. Maybe it's time I stop workng on cars anyway.

 

[rslifkin]

13 years old is an old car by many people's standards, but at the same time, the 3 cars sitting in our garage are 12, 20, and 23 years old. Oddly enough, it's the newest of the group that's on the chopping block for replacement in the near future.

Personally, I think life is too short for boring cars. So I'd rather drive a car I enjoy than one that society deems is appropriate (age, brand, etc.). Even if it does take a little more work to keep it in good shape.

I think that last mentality applies at least a little bit to many on here. Otherwise, why would we all own boats?

 

[backinblue]

13 years old is an old car by many people's standards, but at the same time, the 3 cars sitting in our garage are 12, 20, and 23 years old. Oddly enough, it's the newest of the group that's on the chopping block for replacement in the near future.

Personally, I think life is too short for boring cars. So I'd rather drive a car I enjoy than one that society deems is appropriate (age, brand, etc.). Even if it does take a little more work to keep it in good shape.

I think that last mentality applies at least a little bit to many on here. Otherwise, why would we all own boats?

I agree. I just upgraded my 10 year old Hyundai SUV to a BMW SUV. It still does the same function getting me reliabley where i need to go, but it is more enjoyable and I enjoy the modern features.

 

[Don Souza]

Are your engine's 4236 Perkins if so.
I think your tac is wrong get a hand held tac to check .
Oil no synthetic, 15-40 should do it. Mobil Delvac
1300 super diesel engine oil
Walmart has it or Napa store. I think the RPM is 2800 off the top of my head.
If you have 4236 Perkins you should get 15K TO 18K hours cheap to rebuild or exchange is ez to find.
Good luck
Don

 

[YukonRon]

Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
................Like no dip stick … ??

I spent an hour looking for one on the wife BMW, there is none!

The Yanmar diesel in our boat is a marinized BMW and it has TWO dipsticks. I'm told the little short one on the starboard side is left over from the original automobile application. Being too hard to reach in the bilge, they added a longer one on the port side when they marinized it; but left the original in place. Had me confused for a while.

 

[garycasey]

Just a few comments about oil, coming from a non-expert:
Multi-viscosity oil is mainly the thinner (winter) grade with additives that can be a significant portion of the total - like 15%. The additive causes the hydrocarbon chains to connect at higher temperatures, making the viscosity go up compared to what it would have been without the additive. Problem is that the SAE test used is more like dripping through an orifice than running in a bearing. The SAE specification gives a range of viscosity when hot (200 degrees? I forgot). When a W is added behind the number the specification is a maximum viscosity at a cold temperature (32 degrees? I forgot). The W stands for Winter, or a low-temperature specification, not "Weight." The connections made are relatively weak and tend to shear at the high shear rates in a bearing. So a 15W-40 oil may act during cold cranking like a 15W oil, but doesn't behave like a 40 oil when hot. By the way, I don't think there is a 40W specification. Bottom line: If the manufacturer specified a 40 oil, don't make the mistake of thinking a 15W-40 oil is an equivalent. It's basically a 15W oil with additives. First, the "single-weight" oil is 100% oil, making it better than any so-called multiweight oil. For a diesel in a boat, if the engine cranks fast enough to start cold, the oil viscosity is okay. Finally, a "high-mileage" is one that has a (catalyst-damaging) Zinc additive, which helps with boundary lubrication. Oil sold as "diesel" oil already has the additive. Sorry about the long post. I hope there is a trace of knowledge in it.

 

[backinblue]

Seems like a great contrast from my 20 year old BMW. Easiest car I've ever done an oil change on (cartridge filter is front and center, takes seconds to change and not messy). And the cabin air filters take 2 minutes to change (although the recirculation filters are a pain).

I don't mind sensors monitoring the oil level, it's probably a good thing in addition to oil pressure. Thing is I can't tell the exact level, just that it's ok. I also can't see a sample of the oil to see what it looks like. No choice really but to accept it and change as scheduled. On my car, it tracks miles plus the calendar and will warn me at either 10K miles or 1 year.

 

[DaveGibson]

I always ran both of my diesels, never one. I had twin Ford-Lehman 120s and ran them around 1800 RPM, if I remember right. I checked my engine oil at the start of the day and added when needed, which was rarely.

It sounds to me that your Perkins needs a rebuild. Are you burning it or leaking it? Or both? I had a Perkins in my 33' sailboat and that thing leaked oil badly.

You'll love Brunswick, if you haven't been there before.

 

[Gaylord Ballard]

You are seriously over revving those engines. Pull out and read your owners manual. 2400 rpm for limited time is acceptable.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Just a few comments about oil, coming from a non-expert:
Multi-viscosity oil is mainly the thinner (winter) grade with additives that can be a significant portion of the total - like 15%. The additive causes the hydrocarbon chains to connect at higher temperatures, making the viscosity go up compared to what it would have been without the additive. Problem is that the SAE test used is more like dripping through an orifice than running in a bearing. The SAE specification gives a range of viscosity when hot (200 degrees? I forgot). When a W is added behind the number the specification is a maximum viscosity at a cold temperature (32 degrees? I forgot). The W stands for Winter, or a low-temperature specification, not "Weight." The connections made are relatively weak and tend to shear at the high shear rates in a bearing. So a 15W-40 oil may act during cold cranking like a 15W oil, but doesn't behave like a 40 oil when hot. By the way, I don't think there is a 40W specification. Bottom line: If the manufacturer specified a 40 oil, don't make the mistake of thinking a 15W-40 oil is an equivalent. It's basically a 15W oil with additives. First, the "single-weight" oil is 100% oil, making it better than any so-called multiweight oil. For a diesel in a boat, if the engine cranks fast enough to start cold, the oil viscosity is okay. Finally, a "high-mileage" is one that has a (catalyst-damaging) Zinc additive, which helps with boundary lubrication. Oil sold as "diesel" oil already has the additive. Sorry about the long post. I hope there is a trace of knowledge in it.

Mr Casey,
I’ve been preach’in for years mostly or all of what you’ve said but mostly to feaf ears.
I ran straight 30w oil in my diesel (trawler) for 15 years. Lived in S E Alaska for most of that time. Outside temps got to close to 0 but I had a very small electric heater in the engine compartment that kept the temp above 38 degrees (or so) and never ever experienced slow or otherwise difficult cranking and the engine started smartly. Idle was a bit slow tho.

I thought you mentioned it but I can’t find the comment about the percent of viscosity improvers was/is in MV oil. I’ve been under the impression that much more VI is added for oils like 20w50, 5w30 and 10w40. Less in 10w30 or There’s no VI in racing oil and I wonder if one of the reasons is that racers want no VI … 100% oll. I want 100% oil too.

Thanks so very much for your enlightening post.

 

[Bryant]

Engine oil

Gulfstar 36, 2 perkins engines, going from New Orleans to Brunswick, 1200 mi, 19 days, 1973 boat, engines burning, each 1.5 qts of 10 w oil per hour, at onset, threatened to scuttle the trip, not enough oil avail for this. started running only one engine and swithing every few hours. running both engines at 3400 rpm got 8.3 mph. running one engine at 3400 rpm got 7mph or a bit better occasionally. steering generally OK but somewhat cockeyed. used both eng only for exquisite maneuvering. first marina i came to bought 2 cases 40 wt oil and between that and single engine motoring saved the trip. by the time i got to GA the engines had reduced oil consumption to about a quart every 4 hours.

That oil is way too light. At least 30wt, 40 better. 3400rpm seems way too high. I run at 1800 for 7-8kts.
Aside from that, I’d have a good diesel mechanic look at those engines. Sounds like you have some serious issues that could get you stranded somewhere if not addressed. Good luck.

 

[catalinajack]

Just a few comments about oil, coming from a non-expert:

Multi-viscosity oil is mainly the thinner (winter) grade with additives that can be a significant portion of the total - like 15%. The additive causes the hydrocarbon chains to connect at higher temperatures, making the viscosity go up compared to what it would have been without the additive. Problem is that the SAE test used is more like dripping through an orifice than running in a bearing. The SAE specification gives a range of viscosity when hot (200 degrees? I forgot). When a W is added behind the number the specification is a maximum viscosity at a cold temperature (32 degrees? I forgot). The W stands for Winter, or a low-temperature specification, not "Weight." The connections made are relatively weak and tend to shear at the high shear rates in a bearing. So a 15W-40 oil may act during cold cranking like a 15W oil, but doesn't behave like a 40 oil when hot. By the way, I don't think there is a 40W specification. Bottom line: If the manufacturer specified a 40 oil, don't make the mistake of thinking a 15W-40 oil is an equivalent. It's basically a 15W oil with additives. First, the "single-weight" oil is 100% oil, making it better than any so-called multiweight oil. For a diesel in a boat, if the engine cranks fast enough to start cold, the oil viscosity is okay. Finally, a "high-mileage" is one that has a (catalyst-damaging) Zinc additive, which helps with boundary lubrication. Oil sold as "diesel" oil already has the additive. Sorry about the long post. I hope there is a trace of knowledge in it.

So, you are now a petroleum engineer. Tell us, then, why every manufacturer of every type of engine specifies multi-grade oil. Total bull. Very little to no trace of discernible knowlege.

 

[catalinajack]

Mr Casey,
I’ve been preach’in for years mostly or all of what you’ve said but mostly to feaf ears.
I ran straight 30w oil in my diesel (trawler) for 15 years. Lived in S E Alaska for most of that time. Outside temps got to close to 0 but I had a very small electric heater in the engine compartment that kept the temp above 38 degrees (or so) and never ever experienced slow or otherwise difficult cranking and the engine started smartly. Idle was a bit slow tho.

I thought you mentioned it but I can’t find the comment about the percent of viscosity improvers was/is in MV oil. I’ve been under the impression that much more VI is added for oils like 20w50, 5w30 and 10w40. Less in 10w30 or There’s no VI in racing oil and I wonder if one of the reasons is that racers want no VI … 100% oll. I want 100% oil too.

Thanks so very much for your enlightening post.

Not the least bit enlightening. You have been preaching that same nonsense for years. I'll trust petroleum engineers any day. Science rules.

 

[garycasey]

Again, not an expert reply from a credentialled petroleum engineer. I propose that while oil technology has improved over the years, the other reason multi-viscosity oil is more commonly recommended these days is in the engine. Engines, specifically crank journals and bearings, are built with harder surfaces, better surface finishes, and more precise dimensions than in the past. This allows the use of lower viscosity oil, which in turn reduces engine friction. I still maintain that at high (normal operating) temperatures a 15W-40 oil behaves more like an SAE 30 than a 40 oil in terms of wear prevention. As usual, though, everything is a compromise. In my gasoline car engines, I use multi-viscosity full-synthetic oil, which gets most of its MV characteristic from the chemistry of the oil, not from additives. In aircraft engines I use fixed viscosity. In my Cummins boat engine I use what is recommended by Cummins, 15W-40.

 

[garycasey]

Now that I've crawled down the rabbit hole I might as well keep going. Cold oil viscosity ratings are specified for 0W to 25W oil and the actual temperature of the rating varies. For instance, 15W oil must have a viscosity of less than 3500 cP at -15F. The test method is a representation of cranking torque. High temperature ratings (without the W) are specified for 20 through 60 oils (the term "-weight" as in 40-weight oil does not appear in the specification. An SAE 40 oil must have a viscosity between 12.5 and 16.3 cSt at 100C. SAE 30 oil must be between 9.3 and 12.5. The test is an representation of minimum film thickness in a bearing running at speed. The rabbit hole continues downward, but I think I'll stop now. I hope the discussion helped.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Gary wrote;
“ I still maintain that at high (normal operating) temperatures a 15W-40 oil behaves more like an SAE 30 than a 40 oil in terms of wear prevention”

And more like a 30w in viscosity?

 

[Capt Nemo]

Are your engine's 4236 Perkins if so.
I think your tac is wrong get a hand held tac to check .
Oil no synthetic, 15-40 should do it. Mobil Delvac
1300 super diesel engine oil
Walmart has it or Napa store. I think the RPM is 2800 off the top of my head.
If you have 4236 Perkins you should get 15K TO 18K hours cheap to rebuild or exchange is ez to find.
Good luck
Don

If you or anyone else is looking for a Perkins 4-236 engine, we have a brand new Rebuild for sale. For all information on this engine, please call me at 705-248-1234 0r email at
northchannel@msn.com
You will not be disappointed.
Thank You

 

[Finestkind]

My Son loves to say ‘An Engineer will spend 100’s of man hours to screw a Technician!’
I now understand.

 

[Slowmo]

Before this gets all out of hand let me step in as a "qualified petroleum engineer' because there are lots of misconceptions about engine oils. First thing, just to clarify, the field of Petroleum Engineering specifically refers to engineers who specialize in oil production, not lubricants. I spent 36 years in field, a majority of this time leading R&D teams developing lubricant formulations. In any case, these teams consist of mechanical engineers (including myself), chemical engineers, and chemists. In any case modern engine oils cost millions to develop. R&D in this field is in the hundreds of millions per year. It is a very high technology investment field.

So, a few misconceptions.
1) Multigrade Diesel Engine Oils (DEO) became the norm starting in the 1980's. Other than Detroit Diesel 2 cycle engines, 15W-40 provided superior lubrication and lower oil consumption (there are technical papers on this if anyone doubts it).
2) There are NO single grade oils that can meet current DEO performance requirements. Most single grades marketed have less performance additive since they meet far lower performance standards. "Shearing' is not a problem. There are shear stability requirements and oil tends to thicken with time due to volatility and oxidation.
3) Synthetic is a pure marketing term. If you try to use the technical definition of synthetic then all modern oils are synthetic since you have to use hydrocracked and isomerized base oils to meet current performance levels. There is NO magic 'clinging' to metal by synthetics, that's pure marketing hype. It would take too much space to explain base oil types here!
4) While diesel engine manufacturers have been moving to lower viscosity grades, in the US 15W-40 remains the standard. One advantage is that 15W-40 is backward compatible with most engines. As a comment you should NOT use a single grade (SAE 30 or 40) with a modern (last 20 years or so) American or European diesel engine, period. I always recommend following the OEM recommendations on viscosity.
5) The current API Diesel performance category is API CK-4. To understand a CK-4 oil has anywhere from 15-20% of chemical performance additives plus viscosity modifier. All modern lubricants have:
- Ashless dispersant for deposit and soot control
- Metallic detergent for piston deposit control and acid neutralization (most detergents are 'overbased'.
- Zinc Dithiophosphate (ZnDTP) for extreme pressure wear control. Total ZnDTP is typically limited by P limitations for emissions system compatibility. Non-ZnDTP antiwear are commonly used in addition.
- Anti-oxidation additives to prevent oil thickening under high temperature (polymerization).
- Supplemental anti-wear (non-ZnDTP).
- A number of additional additives may be used in for special purposes beyond the typical ones listed above.
6) All major brand engine oils are good products. I use Chevron Delo 400 partly because I am quite familiar with its formulation and development. But I wouldn't hesitate to use Shell Rotella T, Mobil Delvac etc. I personally do not purchase lubricants from companies that are pure marketers (claiming 'racing', dyed oil, or other gimmics)

This is a very short outline of modern engine oils. The key is to buy a viscosity and performance level suitable for your engine. In boats many of us have older engines so the modern multigrade oils have way more performance and durability than they need.

The one exception: DDC 2T engines. They are the one engine that prefers single grade, doesn't really care about most of the performance additives, and reacts poorly to oils with higher levels of sulfated ash from detergents. This is the one and only engine I'd think about using SAE 30 or SAE 40.