Upgrade to vacuflush

[HeadMistress]

A push up to a loop (not necessarily vented if only going to the tank) is only needed if it's an uphill run from the toilet to the tank and/or the tank is further from the toilet than the pump can push the flush without some help from gravity.

It's unlikely that a loop would be of any use in a VacuFlush because the suction pulls the flush to the vacuum pump. The pump has to push it the rest of the way to the tank while it simultaneously sucks the air out of the system between the pump and the bowl. The pump only runs long enough to achieve the necessary amount of vacuum, so if the distance from the pump to the tank is further than the distance from the bowl to the pump, the flush stops moving when the pump shuts down. A loop can't help because the vacuum pump isn't powerful enough to lift the flush high enough to provide the help from gravity needed to get it rest of the way to the tank. I had conversation with someone recently who told me it's only about 6' from the bowl to the vacuum generator, about 18' from the VG to the tank...and it's not downhill.

Another reason to put enough water through a VF to rinse out the hoses...if not immediately after each flush, a full bowl once a day.


--Peggie

 

[88FuHwa]

Funny that he mentioned that changing the duck bills is a filthy job. As a former plumber and a father of three kids, I have seen my share of poop in systems and thousands of diapers. If that is all it prevents folks from buying a VF, you have never been a loving father.

 

[catalinajack]

Funny that he mentioned that changing the duck bills is a filthy job. As a former plumber and a father of three kids, I have seen my share of poop in systems and thousands of diapers. If that is all it prevents folks from buying a VF, you have never been a loving father.

I have been a loving father and changed plenty of poopy diapers. Nothing sanitary or pleasant about it.

 

[ranger58sb]

Not real impressed with the Jabsco head but it does work (noisy!).

What model Jabsco? Freshwater or sea water flush?

-Chris

 

[HeadMistress]

Replacing duckbill valves doesn't have to be nasty job if you run plenty of clean water through the system first. That also applies to taking connections apart in any system no matter which toilet.


I wonder why doing that never occurs to so many people...maybe because they wouldn't have a "war story" to tell if they did?


--Peggie

 

[PacNW]

Gotta agree with the others about rethinking the switch to Vacuflush. Many of us with Vacuflush are considering upgrading to an electric macerating head. Seems like you're taking a step back.

Agreed. For some reason Vacuflush has gotten a reputation for being the end all for boat heads. I have had several brands on different boats. While there is nothing wrong with Vacuflush they are not magic and have issues like most other brands.

 

[rgano]

A push up to a loop (not necessarily vented if only going to the tank) is only needed if it's an uphill run from the toilet to the tank and/or the tank is further from the toilet than the pump can push the flush without some help from gravity.

It's unlikely that a loop would be of any use in a VacuFlush because the suction pulls the flush to the vacuum pump. The pump has to push it the rest of the way to the tank while it simultaneously sucks the air out of the system between the pump and the bowl. The pump only runs long enough to achieve the necessary amount of vacuum, so if the distance from the pump to the tank is further than the distance from the bowl to the pump, the flush stops moving when the pump shuts down. A loop can't help because the vacuum pump isn't powerful enough to lift the flush high enough to provide the help from gravity needed to get it rest of the way to the tank. I had conversation with someone recently who told me it's only about 6' from the bowl to the vacuum generator, about 18' from the VG to the tank...and it's not downhill.

Another reason to put enough water through a VF to rinse out the hoses...if not immediately after each flush, a full bowl once a day.


--Peggie

Thanks for the comments, Peggy. That answers my sense of the VF operation aboard my smallish vessel where there is not much room for vented loops etc. My vac generator is very close to the tank back aft while the head is 15-20 feet forward with the sanitation hose starting low down under the toilet and essentially climbing aft to the vac gen. Even if I wanted to, I doubt installing something like the Elegance would be possible on this boat without expensive surgery. The VF seems to have been a good choice by Mainship here, and after cutting for and installing a 10X20 inch access deck plate, all access issues to its vital parts were resolved so that the system and I get along fine for its very limited use in a local bay cruiser.

 

[ksanders]

I find this interesting.

While I probably would not choose a vacuflush for a new installation, my two units work just fine, and are easy to work on, during the rare occasion something goes wrong.

My system is also two decades old, as are the OEM installations that many here are finding problematic.

I wonder...

Are the problems with Vacuflush due to lack of maintenance?
While I really support Raritan their products are not maintenance free either.

Over a two decade lifetime I wonder how many parts these are going to need?

Think about it...

A new electric head is going to have one or two pumps, one being a macerator. It is going to have electrical relays to drive those pumps, and or fresh water solenoid valves. There are control panels that might fail.

I think some of you guys are in a “honeymoon” period that comes with most any new system. Time will be the decider for reliability, not out of the box or three year performance.

Come back in 20 years and my money says you will have had to replace a few parts, just like on the Vacuflush system.

 

[ranger58sb]

Over a two decade lifetime I wonder how many parts these are going to need?

A new electric head is going to have one or two pumps, one being a macerator. It is going to have electrical relays to drive those pumps, and or fresh water solenoid valves. There are control panels that might fail.

I think some of you guys are in a “honeymoon” period that comes with most any new system. Time will be the decider for reliability, not out of the box or three year performance.

Come back in 20 years and my money says you will have had to replace a few parts, just like on the Vacuflush system.

Ours has one pump, being a macerator; replaced once, 10 minute job. Replaced solenoid once, 20 minute job mostly because of access. Replaced joker valves occasionally, 3x I think.

The other week we began to experience erratic rinse water flow (didn't affect flushing), seems to have been an issue with electrical contacts on the rocker switch at the 3-function control. Disconnected it, studied on it for a few minutes, reconnected it, problem solved. (??)

Over 17 years.

-Chris

 

[ksanders]

Ours has one pump, being a macerator; replaced once, 10 minute job. Replaced solenoid once, 20 minute job mostly because of access. Replaced joker valves occasionally, 3x I think.

The other week we began to experience erratic rinse water flow (didn't affect flushing), seems to have been an issue with electrical contacts on the rocker switch at the 3-function control. Disconnected it, studied on it for a few minutes, reconnected it, problem solved. (??)

Over 17 years.

-Chris

Good honest answer.

I would submit that in 17 years a Vacuflush would require a similar level of maintenance activity.

The main challenge with a vaccuflush system seems to be access to the components for maintenance.

Then again, on many boats getting to the area beneath the bowel on a marine head can require yoga skills as well.

 

[J.T kearney]

vacuflush on 98 mainship

I have recently installed a vacuflush on our 98 mainship 350 and love it. with a good venting system and noflex additive its been great. brought in water supply from vanity(hardest part of the job) an built a shelf for the vacuum system under the helm station. Used rigid pipe when ever possible. Went with model 706 and it matched up with the sole very well.


J.T.

 

[ranger58sb]

Then again, on many boats getting to the area beneath the bowel on a marine head can require yoga skills as well.

Our motor/pump assembly is behind the bottom of the bowl, relatively easy to reach.

The solenoid was a slight bit harder, behind a cabinet under our galley sink (other side of the bulkhead from behind the toilet)... only slightly difficult because it was easier to get in there by first removing the cabinet door... which added some time, counting replacement.

The VacuFlush we had on our prior boat worked all the time we had it... no maintenance required... but that was only about 4 years. Sometimes the vacuum seal didn't take and the pump kept on pumping until we cleared the previous flush a bit better... but I assume that was operator error. I didn't care much for the loud POP! that happened when flushing; seemed like that would wake the dead.

-Chris

 

[Greggnvt]

What model Jabsco? Freshwater or sea water flush?

-Chris

Jabsco 37010-1090. Sea/salt water.

Thank you,
Gregg

 

[HeadMistress]

Are the problems with Vacuflush due to lack of maintenance?

At least 75% if not more are created by operator error: 1. failure to put enough water through it to keep the pump and duckbills rinsed out. 2. leaking bowls are mostly caused by not understanding that the pedal is spring-loaded for a reason...so they ease the pedal back up instead of just letting go of it to let the dome snap back into place with enough force to seat it.

And then there are those who tackle a problem without any real understanding of how the VF works, never even think of checking the troubleshooting guide in the owners manual requesting a manual if they don't have one, or asking for help before they start shotgunning fixes, often replacing a whole bunch of parts that didn't need replacing and so either manage to turn one small problem into several or spend a lot of money on parts that didn't solve the problem.

For some reason Vacuflush has gotten a reputation for being the end all for boat heads.

Easily explained: The VF was introduced in 1978...and until the early '90s it was the ONLY toilet designed to use pressurized flush water instead of sea water, drew only 5-6 amps vs the 30-50 for macerating electric toilets and only needed a fraction of the 1-3 gallons of flush water needed by macerating electric toilets. But in the early '90s Raritan and then Jabsco introduced the first macerating electric toilets designed to use pressurized fresh water, only drew 10-15 amps, and only needed about a quart of flush water. Plus boat owners could buy 'em for a lot less than a VF. For the first time the VF had SERIOUS competition!

Ed McKiernan who was president of SeaLand for 30+ years, wasn't about to take that lying down and launched what may have been the most expensive ad campaign in marine toilet history with multiple VF ads in every issue of every major national boating magazine for several years . Neither Raritan nor Jabsco have ever--and still don't--spent much money on advertising and marketing, so the VF became the only fresh water, low water toilet that most boat owners had any idea even existed...they only knew about sea water toilets. And that's how VF became the "end all, be all" marine toilet. Less so now that enough "modern" macerating toilets are in use for most boat owners to be aware of them and the performance/reliability/durability track records of the various makes/models.


Btw, Chris...you said "Ours has one pump, being a macerator"... No pump is a macerator. A macerator is a metal blade, not entirely unlike a blender blade, IN a pump. The "pump" in your toilet--in most macerating electric toilets--is actually an impeller. If your toilet were a sea water toilet, it would have TWO impellers--an intake "pump" and a discharge "pump". Because yours is a toilet designed to use pressurized flush water, it needs no intake impeller.



(wow...that got LONG!)


--Peggie

 

[ranger58sb]

Jabsco 37010-1090. Sea/salt water.

Thank you,
Gregg

Ah. At least some of that would explain the "loud" -- given the additional pump action required to bring in sea water too...

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

Btw, Chris...you said "Ours has one pump, being a macerator"... No pump is a macerator. A macerator is a metal blade, not entirely unlike a blender blade, IN a pump. The "pump" in your toilet--in most macerating electric toilets--is actually an impeller. If your toilet were a sea water toilet, it would have TWO impellers--an intake "pump" and a discharge "pump". Because yours is a toilet designed to use pressurized flush water, it needs no intake impeller.

Yeah, I just keyed off of the way Kevin described it, and used the same language: "A new electric head is going to have one or two pumps, one being a macerator."

To be more precise, Jabsco actually calls it a Motor & Pump Assembly, and there are internal parts labeled Chopper Plate, Macerator Housing, and Centrifigal Impeller. The Chopper Plate is like the blender things, and I guess the Impeller is all about swooshing effluent out through the discharge hose (discharge pump).

Bottom line is that "stuff" gets chopped and swooshed.

Lot o' technical terms there.

-Chris

 

[Shrew]

Replacing duckbill valves doesn't have to be nasty job if you run plenty of clean water through the system first. That also applies to taking connections apart in any system no matter which toilet.


I wonder why doing that never occurs to so many people...maybe because they wouldn't have a "war story" to tell if they did?


--Peggie

I thought that was the ONLY way. I would think that someone who doesn't flush heavily before hand would only make that mistake once.

 

[Comodave]

I am going to be installing a Marine Elegance over this winter. We did our last pumpout today. Before the pumpout I ran water into the head for about 10 minutes and flushing it into the holding tank. I want the hoses as clean as possible before I work on them...

 

[Caballero II]

Going to an electric macerating head, and using fresh water rather than raw water flush eliminated any head smell issues. Yes, it uses your fresh water. Is that really a problem for your mission? If so, ignore this response.

 

[Shrew]

Resurrecting an old post to follow-up. I finally managed to install the Raritan Sea Era QC with the 'household' sized bowl. I bought the dual freshwater/raw-water, but ended up converting it to a straight freshwater flush (money wasted, oh well). Retrospectively, I could have gone with the simpler "Multifunction Momentary Control" rather than the 'Smart Toilet Control with Multifunction Panel Raritan STC' as well (more money wasted).

As a buddy of mine put it. "The water saving flush seems fine, anyone that needs the 'Normal Flush' should not be allowed to use your head" LMFAO!!!! Right now, the Fill Only and Flush Only seem to work just fine.

The head operates incredibly quietly and works awesome! We are very very pleased so far.

 

[HiDHo]

I thought that was the ONLY way. I would think that someone who doesn't flush heavily before hand would only make that mistake once.

Plumbers quote “ plumbers never have nail biting problems” .