Vacuflush trouble shooting

[caltexflanc]

The vacuum tester catches the little, slow leaks, which the shaving cream is bad at. When I was remediating a poor PO installation on one of our systems, I went through that drill. Absolutely try the cheap solution first, then pull out the heavy artillery.

 

[Higgo]

Hello. Many points have been covered and one post talked about a crack in the base funnel. This is indeed correct. I was having similar problems and advice from one of the guys at the Marine Sanitation store in Seattle, proved correct. Many years back, the Vacuflush mfgr had a bad batch of funnels that we’re prone to/had minute spider type cracks. Sure enough, removal and close inspection proved correct. Replacement solved the problem. A second place to check is the foot pedal cartridge, there is a small rubber o ring that can leak.

These problems can really brown you off. Lol. Good luck with it! Cheers

 

[Vactech]

Hello you mentioned you using a t pump in the system

If you do have in fact a T pump instead of an S pump creating vacuum for a system it is the wrong pump. if it's white it's meant for a discharge system.
T- has two duckbills in it
S pump which is the vacuum pump uses four duck bills.
If this is the case I would think you need to replace the T pump with a S pump which is the proper pump in a vacuum system.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If you do have in fact a T pump instead of an S pump creating vacuum for a system it is the wrong pump. if it's white it's meant for a discharge system.
T- has two duckbills in it
S pump which is the vacuum pump uses four duck bills.
If this is the case I would think you need to replace the T pump with a S pump which is the proper pump in a vacuum system.

Interesting. It's labeled as a T pump, black body, white cover, 4 duck bills. Anyway that project and many others are on hold while I observe the stay at home order from the Governor.

 

[tiltrider1]

You have a S pump with a T pump top. No big deal. The two pumps are identical except the main body of the S pump has reversed threads to accept the double duckbill housing.

 

[syjos]

There was a vendor selling kits to convert a T pump to a S pump a few years back.

He manufactured reverse thread fittings to allow the installation of 4 duckbills on a T pump turning it into a S pump. It was a clever way to save a few bucks.

The Sealand T and S pumps are identical except for the reverse threads on the T pump and the number of duck bills.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Try this:

https://marinesan.com/

 

[HeadMistress]

Because the S and T pumps are identical except for the number of duckbills--2 in the T, 4 in the S, and the PRICE!--many people replace S pumps with T pumps without any problem, although the T pump MAY require more frequent duckbill replacement.

There's no valid reason why 2 extra duckbills should make the price of an S Pump double the price of the T Pump, but Dometic/SeaLand has always made it impossible to simply add duckbills to the T pump by reversing the threads in the valve nipples that are molded into the pump base, unnecessarily increasing the price of a VF toilet.

--Peggie

 

[Marco Flamingo]

My prior owner installed a pull switch next to the toilet. Pull the switch, fill the bowl with FW, the vacuum builds while I do my business and it's a done deal. There is a complete spare kit on board, but he said that he got tired of installing them and just used the switch for the last several years. Is there a problem with using this system?

 

[syjos]

My prior owner installed a pull switch next to the toilet. Pull the switch, fill the bowl with FW, the vacuum builds while I do my business and it's a done deal. There is a complete spare kit on board, but he said that he got tired of installing them and just used the switch for the last several years. Is there a problem with using this system?

I fill the bowl with water before I do "big business" by lifting the pedal on the VacuFlush toilet.

 

[Slowmo]

Mine also has the T pumps instead of S pump and it was installed that way by MarineSan of Seattle, their stickers are all over it. I was thinking of replacing the T with S until I saw the price difference. Maybe I will wait until it actually fails.

 

[syjos]

Mine also has the T pumps instead of S pump and it was installed that way by MarineSan of Seattle, their stickers are all over it. I was thinking of replacing the T with S until I saw the price difference. Maybe I will wait until it actually fails.

Marine Sanitation (Marine San) does not do installs. They sell products to dealers who sell and install the system in boats. They also sell direct to consumers.

Many dealer/installers substituted the T pump for the S pump to increase profit or to come up with a low bid.

Some dealers actually bought the aftermarket adapters to convert the T pump to 2 duckbills per port, but most did not.

Also found T pumps installed instead of the S pump by boat manufacturers in the 90's.

I am a Sealand dealer and was involved in replacing T pumps with S pumps on boats where the incorrect pump was installed by dealers and manufacturers and sometimes by the boat owner. You would not believe the shoddy work that some installers, manufacturers and owners are doing. Sealand was pretty good and paid a lot of warranty claims even when it was not their fault and the fault of the installer.

The issue with having 1 duckbill per port instead of 2 is that with 1 duckbill, the vacuum will not hold as long and with 2 duckbills, if one gets something stuck at it's opening, the other will hold the vacuum.

Sealand actually manufactured a holding tank - vacuum generator combination for small boats that had one duck bill per port. It was installed in a lot of Boston Whalers. It was a PITA to work on.

I don't think the T pump will fail early because of it's incorrect use.

 

[tiltrider1]

T pump will last just as long as the s pump. They are exactly the same except for the extra 2 duckbill valves. If you use a T pump instead of a S pump you will suffer more cases of continuous pump run because of a stuck duckbill. Usually solved by flushing a gallon of water through the system. The crazy thing now, you can buy a T pump, and a S pump base with the double duckbill attachments, swap bases and you will have saved $250 over buying a S pump.

 

[syjos]

T pump will last just as long as the s pump. They are exactly the same except for the extra 2 duckbill valves. If you use a T pump instead of a S pump you will suffer more cases of continuous pump run because of a stuck duckbill. Usually solved by flushing a gallon of water through the system. The crazy thing now, you can buy a T pump, and a S pump base with the double duckbill attachments, swap bases and you will have saved $250 over buying a S pump.

Shhhhhhh. You're giving away a secret us Sealand dealers are trying not to get out.

Seriously, if anyone needs a S pump or any other Dometic Sealand part or product, PM me and I'll sell it to you for slightly over my cost. Dometic Sealand products are protected by minimum advertised price agreements so I can not quote on an open forum like TF.

 

[Tator]

Just gotta love the free market!

Tator

 

[syjos]

The Vacu Flush lower body is out of stock nationally until May 15th

S pump body is part #385311844. Retail $125. Street price $105.

S pump Street price $700

T pump Street price $285

My pricss are less than Street price - PM me.

 

[Slowmo]

I'm curious that if the T and S pumps are substantially similar, why is the price difference so extreme? Is it just due to 'market pricing'. In one of my former roles I was responsible for global pricing so understand that cost and price are the not same thing, so if it's just there's more S pump demand I understand. I've always wanted to have a spare pump aboard, just in case...

 

[caltexflanc]

The T is designed to be a waste discharge pump to evacuate your holding tank. And it happens to be the very best at doing that. The S is designed to create and hold vacuum, and by the very definition of their task, will be cycled much more, and of more urgent need to the owner.

 

[tiltrider1]

I'm curious that if the T and S pumps are substantially similar, why is the price difference so extreme? Is it just due to 'market pricing'. In one of my former roles I was responsible for global pricing so understand that cost and price are the not same thing, so if it's just there's more S pump demand I understand. I've always wanted to have a spare pump aboard, just in case...

The reason is market driven. There are many options when it comes to trash pumps. Sealand can’t raise the price beyond $285, they are already at the top of the market. Any higher and they will be priced out of the market. With the S pump there is no competition. You have no other option so you are forced to pay the price. This why they redesigned the base, to keep from competing with them selves.

 

[syjos]

The S and T pumps use the same motor, gearbox and bellows. Only difference are the pump bodies, the S with normal thread and the T with reverse threads. The reverse thread is to keep people from purchasing the valve adapter, which allow the installation of the second duck bill, and converting the T to a S pump.

The S pump is priced at what the market can bear.

The T to compete with lower cost macerators.

 

[HeadMistress]

What kit did he "get tired of installing"...how often and why? Except for DB valves, most VF components last for years.



--Peggie

 

[Vactech]

Hello there haven't been here for a while. but they had a recalled toilet problem for one year.
Do you know what your your toilet model is still be a serial number on the back of the Base?

 

[Vactech]

That should have said what year your toilet is

 

[Vactech]

Also question for Peggy do you know what the hell happened to caduur deodorizer????

 

[Portage_Bay]

Thank you for the response. I'll look next time I'm at the boat. I don't think it's a toilet issue because the bowl never looses water. And to be honest the vacuflush problem has sllipped to the back burner behind more pressing work. It works, just won't hold a vacuum so we switch it on / off as needed.

Hello there haven't been here for a while. but they had a recalled toilet problem for one year.
Do you know what your your toilet model is still be a serial number on the back of the Base?

 

[Insequent]

...snip....

When I bought my boat I was fortunate that there are independent vacuflush pump power toggle switches installed at each sink, in each head, so I can control the power to the pumps. I don’t know if that was standard or not, but I do have them. When my pumps cycled constantly my initial fix was to tell everyone to (a) flip the switch on, (b) do your business, (c) wait about 60 seconds after you flush, then (d) flip the switch off. I was very successful with steps a & b, but not so much with steps c & d. Three falls ago (before I started the loop), I swapped out the toggle switches to momentary push button switches and wired in a variable-time delay 12V relay and a 12V LED on each of the two switch cover plates. When someone wants to use the head, they simply press the push button switch, the relay automatically latches applying power to the pump, the LED lights up (showing that the power is applied to the pump) and that’s all they need to do. I have set the relay so that the pump is powered for 6 minutes (then the relay drops out cutting power to the vacuflush pump) and can cycle as much as it needs during that time, but won’t keep running when not needed. PM me if you would like the details on parts/wiring.

I’m happy to say that I’m through the 6,000 mile loop and several boating seasons, I’ve had multiple visitors on board and my toilet problems have all but disappeared. Each time someone uses the head that “popping & whooshing” sound is music to my ears (how sick is that). I’m sure I have minor vacuum seeps that will prevent the 10” of vacuum from holding for prolong periods, but that’s okay for me. The extra water and pump-outs are non-events…. The annual changes of duck bills have even been extended and an occasional failure of a component (switch or bellows or…) will still occur, but I’ve been spending my time boating vs head work. Hope this helps….

I sent a PM and got the details. I installed the timer relays on both my vacuflush units a month or so ago, and am very happy with the results.

Sure, its a workaround more than a full repair. But I'd spent a lot of time (on and off) on the least used vacuflush over the past 7 years, and was pretty much over it. Like dz1drwww outlined, the relays are far easier for crew/guests to use.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

That's essentially the system I was asking about (post #39). My pull switch is next the head and the vacuum pump is close enough that one can hear it. Not likely to be left on. I'm sure that it has been used with less than 10 seconds of build up. Is that an issue?

One of these days I'll have to learn in detail how the whole system works. Right now, it is magic and I'm okay with that.

I've seen a lot of complex instructions and witty notices posted about how to use the head. Probably the best sign would be "No Guests." I signed on as captain, not plumber.

 

[HeadMistress]

Also question for Peggy do you know what the hell happened to caduur deodorizer????

Never heard of it...see my reply to your PM.


--Peggie

 

[HeadMistress]

One of these days I'll have to learn in detail how the whole system works. Right now, it is magic and I'm okay with that..

That "pull switch" is a "night switch," because it's sole purpose is to turn off power to the pump, preventing it from running if the toilet is flushed overnight...which may not matter if the pump is buried somewhere deep the bowel of the boat, but matters a LOT if it's under a berth as it was on my last boat. It was never meant to be used as a "flush button" and shouldn't be because it can turn off the the pump before full vacuum is restored, which can leave the flush sitting in the vacuum tank and/or plumbing.


Marco, I've written a piece I call VacuFlush 101 that explains how the whole system works and how much water it actually needs to keep it trouble-free. I'll be glad to send it to you--and anyone else who wants it-- if you'll send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM.)

--Peggie

 

[Vactech]

Well it doesn't matter if you're losing water at the bowl.. it has to do with a problem in the manufacturing of the shaft guide that was slightly oversized and has been a problem in some toilets. The toilets can also be a cause of vacuum loss from not just the bowl seal.