Varnish vs Teak Oil for exterior caprails

[polpisman]

varnish on rails

I do two coats of clear epoxy on bare wood then a good varnish at least two coats for a season--you need the varnish to protect the epoxy from breaking down in the sun. This provides a great base and should mean just varnishing in future as needed for a long period.

 

[AnnaW]

I just redid the wood on our boat and decided to go with "le tonkinois". I love it, it is non toxic and you can just apply another coat if the varnish thins. There is no flaking. I don't sand in between and it looks great.

 

[Nomad Willy]

On varnish I like to put on 5 to 10 coats of thinned oil and kerosene or turpentine and linseed oil if I’m using an oil based top coating. Many coats of oil (I usually use linseed oil) starting out w 5-10% oil and 95% kerosene. Then after a few coats switch to turpentine and oil. Continue to increase the oil content until it starts to build on the surface. Then I wipe w a clean (mostly) cloth and see if I can get more oil into the wood and while doing that I add Japan Drier to the mix as directed on the can.

Initially I use kerosene instead of turp as it penetrates better than anything.
And at the other end of the job .. the last coat or two .. often I use Japan drier.

I usually use raw linseed oil for the first several coats w the kerosene as both the raw oil and the kerosene continues to penetrate as nothing else does.

Then for most boat varnish I use McKloskie’s Spar Varnish. I use this varnish because it’s a high oil varnish and that makes the coating more flexible and much less likely to crack at cap rail seams and over screw heads. If you need maximum scratch resistance there are harder varnishes available. On varnish I like to put on 5 to 10 coats of thinned oil and kerosene or linseed oil if I’m using an oil based top coating. Many coats of oil (I usually use linseed oil) starting out w 5-10% oil and 95% kerosene. Then after a few coats switch to turpentine and oil. Continue to increase the oil until it starts to build on the surface. Then I wipe w a clean (mostly) cloth and see if I can get more oil into the wood and while doing that I add Japan Drier to the mix as directed on the can.

Initially I use kerosene instead of turp as it penetrates better than anything.
And on the last coat or two often I use Japan drier.

I usually use raw linseed oil for the first several coats w the kerosene as it continues to penetrate as does the kerosene.

Then for most boat varnish I use McKloskies Spar Varnish. I use this varnish because it’s a high oil varnish. That makes the coating more flexible and much less likely to crack at cap rail seams and over screw heads. If you need maximum scratch resistance there are harder varnishes available.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I just redid the wood on our boat and decided to go with "le tonkinois". I love it, it is non toxic and you can just apply another coat if the varnish thins. There is no flaking. I don't sand in between and it looks great.

Anna that Russian varnish has many followers.
The’re have been posts on TF about it before.

 

[Brusky1000]

After reading all these ideas that require a lot of work (or seem to) I am just going to go with Cetol and redo once every year or so.

 

[OldDan1943]

That’s about right.

This disadvantage of exterior and teak oil is, oiled teak collect dirt. That requires a holy stone and elbow grease for cleaning

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Only exterior teak we have is our handrails (not cap rails). Pettit Flagship Varnish. Ton of UV protection. Thin first few coats, and full on last three or four. Looks great and lasts several years. Of course we are in a covered slip.

 

[Tangler]

Got to do mine in the spring...cetol was on there 11 years ago when I bought it so I have continued with that...my problem is what I believe is called blue mold....a dark hard to remove crap under the cetol...if you don’t remove that the stuff grows and looks ugly and the job does not last more than a year...anyone have a mold killer suggestion I could use? I have to sand down to bare wood but I just wonder if there is some prevention available or cleaner as the mold goes a few microns deep ( lots of sanding required)

 

[OldDan1943]

There is a 2 part teak cleaner that really works on bare teak. Yup, messy as hell and requires lots of water to wash away all the 'spent' cleaner but, it works, it works, it works.

 

[castellah22]

Hi John ,we have done just this year, had our boat yard strip down to bare teak, and apply 3 coats of international WOOD SKIN and it looks great, our boat is Grand Banks 32.
good luck.

 

[Nomad Willy]

This disadvantage of exterior and teak oil is, oiled teak collect dirt. That requires a holy stone and elbow grease for cleaning

HaHa that’s true.
Something a fisherman would not even notice and a yachtie would distain.

 

[Tangler]

Hey OldDan...many products out there...do you have a name for that cleaner ?

 

[caphyde]

Signature Finish makes Honey Teak not an oil or a varnish but a 3 part system you can apply with brush. Look up the test on internet. Mine has been on for 4 years . Still looks new with no maintenance other than washing off the bird poop.

 

[OldDan1943]

Hey OldDan...many products out there...do you have a name for that cleaner ?

I had used the 2 part, Snappy Teak, in the past with great success. Depending on the amount of exterior teak, the gallon size is best.
Follow the directions.
I bought mine teak cleaner at West Marine.
Now, I dont have exterior teak anymore so I dont have that worry anymore.

 

[Tangler]

Apparently the signature brand is only in Florida..? Good excuse to do to Disney World I suppose...

 

[OldDan1943]

Apparently the signature brand is only in Florida..? Good excuse to do to Disney World I suppose...

Better drive because I doubt if any airline will permit 3 or 4 gallons of each of the 3 step containers. Of course you can have it shipped via a freight company too.

 

[Tangler]

True but where’s the fun in that...thanks guys

 

[caphyde]

Signiture Finish

Not sure why anyone would want to fly with marine coatings. I had mine delivered by UPS. No prob.

 

[SoWhat]

For teak trim I would go for varnish. 4 coats won't last long. Step thin the first 4 coats, then full strength for next 4.
For decks I would oil. Starbright golden teak or West gold teak premium.
TDS makes a water based sealer that looks interesting. Haven't tried it yet.

 

[squimmy27]

I’ve done a lot of both.

I’ve always mixed my own “teak” oil.
Used a lot of raw linseed oil, some boiled, turpentine and very small amounts of Tea Tree Oil. It’s an anti-mildew additive. Expensive.

For you at this time I’d (looks like your’e in Cal.) use lots of teak oil mixed yourself. Start and apply 7-8 coats of raw LO and turp. Mostly turp. Only 10-15% LO at this time. If you have anti-mildew additive add that. Slop on as much as you can w a brush. Add more oil w each coat up to around 6-7 coats. You can use throw away brushes and pick out the brush “hairs” as you go. You can use the brush until it starts to harden. It’s slightly better to use a better brush but you need to clean w turp after each coat.

When the wood won’t take anymore oil/terp wipe off the excess. Don’t use a paper towel.
It would be good to let it stand for a day or two (hopefully one w sun and some warmth. Now switch to boiled LO (or Tung oil) and apply more LO. Apply and wipe. The last coat or two one can add some Japan Drier (as directed) to the mix.
Hopefully you can stop there and also hopefully be happy w it. I was in Alaska and didn’t use any boiled LO and no Japan Drier. After I was sorta doe w it we could sit on the cap rail but when standing up it would feel slightly like our butt had stuck to the cap-rail. It never did nor was there any oil residue on our pants. So it worked well in very wet SE Alaska. I recoated about every 3-5 weeks.

Now for your California oil job you should have some UV additive/protectant in the oil. With just oil I don’t know how much or even if any UV protectant is needed. I never did use any and don’t think it’s needed. I’m hoping someone will offer up an opinion.

So HaHa I suggest you may use both.

After all the reading - I'm going with oil on the caprails and would just like a quick read on how fine to sand to teak 'blond'. The cetol is about 80% rough sanded, now I'm hand sanding....80 grit to smooth and then...120? 180? how fine to sand...thank you in advance all you smart folks! the good thing about oil is that I can be interative and sand a quarter of the rails, oils...move on...sand..oil..move on...at least that's the plan. It also seems that the consensus for deck is no oil. Let it go gray....but that's next year....

 

[Nomad Willy]

It just occured to me that wax may be a good tree to “bark up”.

I’ve seen (but never used) a product called Minwax. I just remember the name and connect it w actual wax but the brand name “Minwax” may not be a wax product. If so tho it may be a solution to the tackyness of oil.

I use “SnowSeal” on my leather shoes and it’s more like waxy than oily.
Just looked at the can I have and it says it’s beeswax. Probably lacking UV protevtion but may/probably won’t need it either.

 

[squimmy27]

One website I visited a couple years ago had a suggestion for applying oil to exterior teak. Think it went something like this:

Once a day for a week
Once a week for a month
Once a month for a year
Then whenever it needs it.

That is almost a haiku....it makes sense because a lot of comments are that oiled teak will 'harden' with coats over time

 

[OldDan1943]

That is almost a haiku....it makes sense because a lot of comments are that oiled teak will 'harden' with coats over time

and collect dirt. sand between coats.

 

[RonR]

After all the reading - I'm going with oil on the caprails and would just like a quick read on how fine to sand to teak 'blond'. The cetol is about 80% rough sanded, now I'm hand sanding....80 grit to smooth and then...120? 180? how fine to sand...thank you in advance all you smart folks! the good thing about oil is that I can be interative and sand a quarter of the rails, oils...move on...sand..oil..move on...at least that's the plan. It also seems that the consensus for deck is no oil. Let it go gray....but that's next year....

I love a good oil rubbed finish. But it will not last long in the PNW outside.
There are 100 ways around a tree but this is my way.

Sand to 180, make sure its dry. Apply Daly's Teak Wood Oil with an old sock, and a lot of it. Keep applying until no more soaks into the wood. Wait about 45-60 min on a fair day till the oil is almost dry. Get out some 400 grit wet/dry paper, sand with the grain lightly. It make a paste like junk on the wood and on the paper. Leave that build up on the wood. Let it dry for a day. Go back and add more teak oil, wait until its almost dry and sand again leaving the paste on the wood. Let it dry for a day. Go back add do it all over for a 3rd time. But where your all done this time wipe it down with a few good dry rags and your done. If you have a little to much paste/build up feel free to sand it down lightly with 400 dry. You don't want to break through the finish, just level it out a bit.

 

[OldDan1943]

Very interesting
How long does this treatment last?

 

[RonR]

Very interesting
How long does this treatment last?

I have never tried it for anything that sits outside. Only interior or something that was going to be Varnished over.

A good source for more info is the Bible of Wood finishing for some of us.

Brightwork: The Art of Finishing Wood Hardcover – November 1, 1990
by Rebecca J. Wittman

 

[Nomad Willy]

Rebecca is quite to very anti-oil.
Some of it is warranted .. some not.

I view it this way;
She’s an expert on varnish but on oil .. not so much.

My take on oil after mixing my own (mostly linseed oil and turp) is that it protects the teak well and your butt won’t pick up any sticky stuff if you sit on your oiled cap rail unless you just oiled it.
Recoat times vary widely w weather but generally is about once a month. I used a brush. One can prolly reduce that using a rag per things I’ve heard/read.

 

[squimmy27]

Removing CETOL, going with Le Tonkinois

There is a 2 part teak cleaner that really works on bare teak. Yup, messy as hell and requires lots of water to wash away all the 'spent' cleaner but, it works, it works, it works.

Sorry in advance for the long post, #1. On the quote, what is the product?

#2....and I think I have a brilliant idea but not sure. This spring/summer I had the cap/handrails rough sanded (~240') to remove aged/flaked CETOL from the PO underneath, also with blue mold issues. My plan was to interatively finish the fine-grained sanding (I'm a PNW work-at-home liveaboard) in the summer and oil with Le Tonkinois. I tested the product on some small teak pieces and love the ease of application, non-toxic, and warm golden, (not yellow) satin-matte finish. Problem is that I had some health complications which took time to resolve and I only finished 40' of rails before the rains started.

On one 2' section, I used a product Boat Protect 1680 on the cap rail where the dogs jump onboard to protect from scratching. Now I'm thinking to use the product on the unfinished rails to protect through the winter. I tested it on a small teak piece, left it on for a week and it pretty readily peeled off. I'm concerned that if I put it on now, in wet weather it would cause more problems with mold. Any other solutions come to mind?

 

[Kawini]

NomadWilly-

I’m intrigued by your tea tree oil additive. We decided to go with oil vs. varnish because we prefer the look and we wanted to take over maintenance of the caprail ourselves. We have been using a product called Penofin for about a year now, and we’re still evaluating whether this is the optimal long term solution for us.

One of the downsides of our Penofin program is that we are getting mildew. This past summer, after we (mistakenly) left the caprail uncovered for a month in Alaska, we returned to the boat to find quite a bit of mildew throughout. This necessitated a pretty thorough sanding before applying two new coats.

How much tea tree oil do you use as an anti-mildew agent? I’m not too concerned about cost, and am willing to introduce as much tea tree oil into the mix as is necessary to impede mildew growth without impairing the Penofin. Any thoughts? A few drops/quartl? A few ounces?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bob Cofer]

We used Teak Guard on our Grand Banks. Very good product, easy to apply and maintain.