Volvo vs. Cummins

[Ski in NC]

Pretty much all continuous duty engines are turbo'd or turbo/aftercooled, except for little engines. The big freighter engines included, and some run insane amounts of boost. Turbo does not reduce engine life in itself.

Even modern common rail engines have some continuous duty ratings, like Cummins QSB5.9 at 230hp, QSL9 at 285hp, Cat C18 at I think 450. They are available. Half the hp and reduced rpm compared to the "fun" engines.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I think it's real easy to be one of the boys and jump on the Volvo bashing bandwagon but there's more to it .....

I've heard ... that Volvo's are a very good engine. Perhaps they are and having to pay high prices for parts may be worth it to many.

Nobody that I can recall has said anything about how good the Volvo is. Everybody's just jumping on the bandwagon bashing Volvo like the're real smart and know better than to buy a Volvo ... but nobody mentions anything except the high parts cost.

I don't know if I need it yet but my Mitsu has a higher price than typical for a specific part (injector pump solenoid) but in ten years I've not had to buy any other parts so I'm not the least bit troubled by this.

We often talk about the high cost of fuel but occasionally somebody points out that fuel is just a small part of boating costs and we move on. I suspect the high Volvo parts prices are much the same and if I were in the know I'll bet I'd find that the Volvo's were a very good engine.

 

[sunchaser]

The hottest marine engine setup for the past few years has been the IPS drive type systems, led by guess who - Volvo of course. Not everybody reads (or believes) TF Volvo 3rd party stories.

It has been proven time and again that all builders can exhibit feeble attempts at building a marine engine from an otherwise good engine.

 

[ancora]

I've owned my twin Volvo powered Nova for 14 years and I can vouch that Volvo does not support legacy engines. The Volvo web page states that "Volvo no longer supports that model engine" for my TMD 40s. They are good engines but it is not fun boating with the "sword of Damocles" hanging over your head. Worst case scenario, needing a part while on a cruise, knowing none are available. That is scary stuff.

 

[FF]

Worst case scenario, needing a part while on a cruise, knowing none are available. That is scary stuff.

Craigs list , purchase a spare and pull what you need .

 

[RCook]

Today's big diesels loaded with electronics to match their turbos and after coolers are yielding much improved HP to weight, longevity and efficiency.

Even some older ones, but maybe not as old as a TMD 40. Here's my anecdote:

Our Volvo KAD44P was built in 1997. It's a 24-valve straight six, turbocharged, aftercooled, and supercharged. Electronic engine controls, throttle, and shifting. 260 hp out of only 3.6 liters (219 cu in). We've put 6,032 hours on it so far, and it's ready to go for another summer on the PNW coast. It smokes very little even at startup, and runs smoothly at any RPM. At trawler speeds we get 4-4.5 nmpg.

Some parts seem pretty expensive, but nothing like the $280 impeller mentioned earlier. Mine were $70 this year. We've spent maybe $300-400 on engine parts per year (almost all consumables, for 400-500 hours of operation), except for one turbo and exhaust elbow that was replaced after 12 years and 4000+ hours. Sterndrive maintenance has been maybe $1500 every three years. The only part I've ever had trouble getting was a sterndrive trim indicator sensor.

Despite this good experience, I'd go with Cummins in a bigger boat.

 

[rwidman]

...I wonder how many Volvo horror stories are third hand and why there are horror stories for other engines that don't get the press for some reason.

I suspect most of them are. Bashing Volvo on boating forums seems pretty common but it's not actual Volvo owners doing the bashing. It's usually a "friend" or a "friend of a friend".

I bought my boat (year 2000) in 2008. The Volvo TAMD41P engine has about 3600 hours on it and my total parts cost (other than filters, belts and impeller) is zero so far. I understand that some parts may be expensive or hard to find but I'll cross that bridge when and if I come to it.

The engine starts instantly even in cold weather, smokes very little and purrs like a kitten.

I think it would be foolish to pass on a boat of your dreams because you read bad things about Volvo engines on the Internet. If they were that bad, builders would not install them.

 

[bayview]

IMO where you are is a big factor. In northern Europe Volvo parts may be more available and wont have duty imposed. In the US Cummins would be my choice. I don't know who gas the best support in asia pacific but local support is usually important.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Yeah folks, I am guilty of VOLVO bashing!! Of course I owned a VOLVO.
Couldn't give me a an IPS drive. The only thing worse than the IPS drives in my book are DUO props. Both great if your Martha Stewart and have Hinkley take your sled out post Labor day from your 8 annual hour use at your Winter Harbor , Maine "Camp" and do the open checkbook "tune up" over the winter.
I also Bash Detroit diesel 8.2's (which I also owned) in a high hour set up (read, REAL WORLD) use.
You won't hear me bad mouthing 71 series detroits, Cummins, and many other brands which I havn't owned.

 

[Mac2]

I'm not sure your question is relevant anymore in regards to new engines. Talking to a diesel mechanic a few days ago and he advised me that because of the new Tier ratings, you have to have higher RPM engines that require the turbo's to burn off the pollutants.

 

[FF]

One question for many engines is who made the base unit?

If a company just purchases the engine and then marinizes it , you can expect parts problems (and expensive parts ) as soon as it is no longer the NEW engine.

 

[rclarke246]

FYI, here is some recent parts pricing history (not including labor) from my Volvo dealer:

These are for Volvo D4, 300 hp.
Note the impeller kit was $44.00

Transmission Oil Filter: $54.59
Bypass Oil Filter: $29.96
Oil Filter: $36.20
Fuel Filter: $39.50
Racor Fuel Filter: $12.95
Air Filter: $56.46
Crankcase Breather Filter: $121.47
Belt: $47.66
Oil: $25.94 / gallon
Impeller Kit: $44.00
Zincs: $10.51

 

[r-rossow]

FYI, here is some recent parts pricing history (not including labor) from my Volvo dealer:

These are for Volvo D4, 300 hp.
Note the impeller kit was $44.00

Transmission Oil Filter: $54.59
Bypass Oil Filter: $29.96
Oil Filter: $36.20
Fuel Filter: $39.50
Racor Fuel Filter: $12.95
Air Filter: $56.46
Crankcase Breather Filter: $121.47
Belt: $47.66
Oil: $25.94 / gallon
Impeller Kit: $44.00
Zincs: $10.51

Are you able to access Volvo Penta parts and accessories - MarinePartsEurope.com?
This is the official Volvo Penta EU Parts Store

If not, please post parts numbers and I will check and post EU prices.
VP will not let me access the US Parts Store (Volvo Penta Marine Engine Parts and Accessories Online Store - Volvo Penta). They obviously check my IP address and will not let me in to do the comparison

Next: How do I bypass the Spelling Police? (English is not my native tongue)

 

[rwidman]

FYI, here is some recent parts pricing history (not including labor) from my Volvo dealer:

These are for Volvo D4, 300 hp.
Note the impeller kit was $44.00

Transmission Oil Filter: $54.59
Bypass Oil Filter: $29.96
Oil Filter: $36.20
Fuel Filter: $39.50
Racor Fuel Filter: $12.95
Air Filter: $56.46
Crankcase Breather Filter: $121.47
Belt: $47.66
Oil: $25.94 / gallon
Impeller Kit: $44.00
Zincs: $10.51

You should know that you should be able to cross reference most or all of these filters to other brands and a considerable savings.

I don't have the same engine as you but my filters (WIX brand) are half or less what you are listing. WIX is a well known, high quality filter manufacturer. I get them at the local Parks Auto store.

 

[rclarke246]

Rossow- I am able to view both web sites. Thank you.

Ron- I'll try to buy the "cross-over" parts once I'm out of warranty. Thank you.

So, it's looking like Volvo parts can only be purchased directly from Volvo or a dealer, right?

 

[rwidman]

I have seen a few third party parts Things like pumps, impellers, exhaust elbow and possibly others. Do a web search on the Volvo part number.

 

[HiDHo]

Yes definitely Cummins, unless you love trying to make water tight connections using "O" rings and a prayer and cross referencing repair parts to get a reasonable item cost. Also try goggling information on a Volvo engine and you will find you need a Swedish interpreter.

 

[rwidman]

Yes definitely Cummins, unless you love trying to make water tight connections using "O" rings and a prayer and cross referencing repair parts to get a reasonable item cost. Also try goggling information on a Volvo engine and you will find you need a Swedish interpreter.

Not true at all.

 

[ancora]

To paraphrase the Torah, "Run from Volvo, run from them as you would the plague."

 

[Ski in NC]

Not true at all.

Volvo does use lots of fluid fittings with orings, including sea water. Get some corrosion in the housing bore and getting the rings to seal can be a real PITA. Hoses and clamps are sorta "dark ages" engineering, but they sure are field serviceable.

 

[N4712]

For the short time we had our Volvo we had no problems, always started and never let us down.