VSat Status

[mikehar]

I'm looking at the current state of Satellite based internet solutions and I wanted to run my findings by y'all to see if I'm missing anything big.

I'm looking for something that can support one or two concurrent zoom calls. That really limits the field as far as I know. This is what I think my options are:

1) Ku Band (via KVH). Great coverage, modest speeds, very high bandwidth costs.
2) Ka Band (via inmarsat/Sailor), ok coverage, great speeds, high install cost, ok bandwidth cost (not cheap)
3) Starlink, great coverage, amazing speads, very affordable -- years away.

Given that, I'm kind of excited about the Sailor 600. 50mbps for much of the area that I want to go. $1k-$2k/month for what I would need in bandwidth, not cheap, but doable. Alaska coverage not great.

Has anyone had experience with the Sailor ka band sats?

-mike

 

[OldDan1943]

Just a thought, check with your satphone people and see what help it would give you.

 

[ksanders]

I went with the KVH V30 system, as an upgrade as I was a current KVH customer.

I cannot say enough good about the equipment and the support.

Of course I do not like the cost, but that's the breaks i suppose.

I think Twistedtree went with the Sailor system. You might ask him how it came out.

If memory serves the hardware was much larger than my 18" diameter dome, and more than twice the initial cost, but the service was cheaper.

 

[twistedtree]

I’ve got an Intellian V60E 60cm dome with vSat service through Sat Com Global. I’m just in the process of activating now.

To me the SatCom global plan is what makes it. It’s unlimited data, and you pay for the data rate. You can forget all about cable modem speeds. We are talking single digit mbps. But you can do anything you want, just slowly. Plus there is a self serve management portal where you can dial up or dial down the plan (speed) at will, only paying per day for whichever plan you use. And there are no change fees. In all theses areas it address the issues I have had with KVH. Like Kevin, I had excellent experience with KVH, but it was hideously expensive for Internet that wasn’t really functional because of the data limits. Now I’ll be paying about the same for totally functional internet, albeit slow.

For something like zoom, I really question whether it will work in any reasonable way because the latency is so high. Has anyone here tried it?

 

[ksanders]

I’ve got an Intellian V60E 60cm dome with vSat service through Sat Com Global. I’m just in the process of activating now.

To me the SatCom global plan is what makes it. It’s unlimited data, and you pay for the data rate. You can forget all about cable modem speeds. We are talking single digit mbps. But you can do anything you want, just slowly. Plus there is a self serve management portal where you can dial up or dial down the plan (speed) at will, only paying per day for whichever plan you use. And there are no change fees. In all theses areas it address the issues I have had with KVH. Like Kevin, I had excellent experience with KVH, but it was hideously expensive for Internet that wasn’t really functional because of the data limits. Now I’ll be paying about the same for totally functional internet, albeit slow.

For something like zoom, I really question whether it will work in any reasonable way because the latency is so high. Has anyone here tried it?

I have not used Video conferencing, but I use my office VOIP phone and it works great. i also use Remote Desktop with great results.

 

[tpbrady]

I would say we are 2 years away from Starlink and One Web being in the maritime business. One Web needs electronically steerable antennas and software while Starlink needs more satellites with inter satellite links to provide off shore service and satellites at a greater inclination than 53 degrees to serve beyond 53 degrees north and south latitude (north of Ketchikan for example). They both need customers on land to start generating cash to help fuel their capital needs.

Tom

 

[Lollygag1]

Tom as one sat guy to another I think you are being generous with starlink in 2yrs, possibly in AK but not more southern climates. Low earth sats will eventually be the best solution for video conferencing and other low latency applications. Closer to the end of the decade before there is comprehensive coverage.

 

[tpbrady]

Lollygag,

If I understand orbits correctly, once Starlink fills the 70 degree shell plus one other which is 97.6 degrees, coverage in both north and south latitudes should be the same as long as intersatellite links and gateways are available. In the northern hemisphere 70 degrees barely gets you to Barrow (now called Utiagvik) missing other parts of the northern hemisphere and the polar regions. The 97.6 shell fills in that area but also brings Antarctica into coverage. Starlink has Beta customers in Chile, New Zealand, and Australia, places where they can support gateways on their first generation satellites.

Tom

 

[ksanders]

Competition will also drive down airtime costs of the existing geostationary services.

 

[tpbrady]

I agree Kevin especially when the first of the Viasat 3 constellation goes to Geo in April/May next year. That one satellite will have a Terabit of capacity and will serve North and South America but Alaska coverage will be tough due to low elevation angles. On the same launcher as Viasat 3 is a small Ka band satellite that will serve Alaska only and is capable of supporting maritime service.

Tom

 

[mikehar]

2022 will be an interesting year for ViaSat-3. The America's sat is supposed to launch 2Q22 and it will take a few months for it to become operational.

I was listing to a talk by Mark Dankberg, one of the Viasat founders. He made an interesting case for how sat networks will become a mix of LEO and GEO sats due to a variety of factors from congestion to solar panel size (aka power) and how it's easier to scale with GEO sats. I've learned a lot about sats looking for internet for my boat!

And Viasat just announced their deal to purchase Inmarsat last month.

I'm liking the Viasat/Sailor 60 Ka band system more and more, but I'd really like to hear from someone who is using one.

 

[twistedtree]

2022 will be an interesting year for ViaSat-3. The America's sat is supposed to launch 2Q22 and it will take a few months for it to become operational.

I was listing to a talk by Mark Dankberg, one of the Viasat founders. He made an interesting case for how sat networks will become a mix of LEO and GEO sats due to a variety of factors from congestion to solar panel size (aka power) and how it's easier to scale with GEO sats. I've learned a lot about sats looking for internet for my boat!

And Viasat just announced their deal to purchase Inmarsat last month.

I'm liking the Viasat/Sailor 60 Ka band system more and more, but I'd really like to hear from someone who is using one.

I think Viasat is the service that poops out as you get up into Alaska? I recall finding one that was quite interesting if I didn't want to go north very far.

 

[tpbrady]

TT

You are correct unless your VSAT can do both Ka and Ku band. Those terminals are big and expensive. I wish I could say Viasat 3 would fix the Alaska issue but it won’t. The small satellite going up with Viasat 3 next spring has excellent coverage of Alaska from Ketchikan to Adak but probably won’t support Ka terminals under 1m.

Tom

 

[mikehar]

I think Viasat is the service that poops out as you get up into Alaska? I recall finding one that was quite interesting if I didn't want to go north very far.

That is the current situation. After they launch ViaSat-3 in 2Q (followed by a month or two to get it operational) they will have (allegedly) full coverage of the Americas. I suspect there will still be low-angle issues at the extreme latitudes.

On the same launch with ViaSat-3, there is an Alaska-specific sat going up, I don't know much about that, a different vendor.

 

[mikehar]

TT

You are correct unless your VSAT can do both Ka and Ku band. Those terminals are big and expensive. I wish I could say Viasat 3 would fix the Alaska issue but it won’t. The small satellite going up with Viasat 3 next spring has excellent coverage of Alaska from Ketchikan to Adak but probably won’t support Ka terminals under 1m.

Tom

That Astrianis micro-Geo sat that they are launching is interesting, but it looks pretty limited. There was a comment in this post that broke down the economics of it pretty well.

I don't see a great solution for AK either. Maybe I'll keep it in BC this summer.

It's hard mixing business with pleasure. : )

 

[twistedtree]

TT

You are correct unless your VSAT can do both Ka and Ku band. Those terminals are big and expensive. I wish I could say Viasat 3 would fix the Alaska issue but it won’t. The small satellite going up with Viasat 3 next spring has excellent coverage of Alaska from Ketchikan to Adak but probably won’t support Ka terminals under 1m.

Tom

Thanks. When I picked mine, VSat Ku band, and Iridium seemed to be the only choice for AK and other northern latitudes. Glad to hear that didn't change 5 minutes after I purchased a VSat system....


I agree with other that the real benefit to us boaters coming from StarLink and all the other advances will be competitive pressure on data rates on the systems we are already using. These new products have much larger markets to address before they will get to us and our needs. But as they address those larger markets, costs will come down and we will benefit from that.

 

[mikehar]

Thanks. When I picked mine, VSat Ku band, and Iridium seemed to be the only choice for AK and other northern latitudes. Glad to hear that didn't change 5 minutes after I purchased a VSat system....


I agree with other that the real benefit to us boaters coming from StarLink and all the other advances will be competitive pressure on data rates on the systems we are already using. These new products have much larger markets to address before they will get to us and our needs. But as they address those larger markets, costs will come down and we will benefit from that.

The period of time between the feeling of joy that comes from buying a new, zippy piece of hardware and envy for the next best-thing-ever piece of hardware has gotten shorter and shorter in the marine world in the last decade. I supposed that's a good thing -- lots of advancement. But it is pretty brutal on the pocketbook, especially with $30k sat antennas.

 

[tpbrady]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am one of principals in the company that will be using the Astranis satellite. We just couldn’t stretch it to support small maritime terminals since the focus was fixed sites on land and supporting small terminals on boats cut heavily into the capacity available on land. I was hoping for something suitable for my Nordic Tug, but too much money and not enough space for something big enough.

Tom

 

[casey]

T-mobile alternative

Ahoy...whereas this is not Sat based, T-mobile has a new 5G home internet cellular based internet. Wait...before you skoff at this, it's $50 a month, unlimited down load, no cut off with certain usage, 100 Mbps "gauranteed" in your home location, even with 4G-LTE. I had 540 and others report over 700 in 5G areas. They don't want you to "roam" with this system, not sure how they can track your actual location...I put it in my car and drove 150 miles pluged in to 12 V and had internet 100% of the time, and used it for two days away from home.... So, yachties, with a cellular booster and this T-Mobile 5G internet it can be your basic onboard system when in US coastal or inland water locations, and it is actially $40 / month with 55+ plan! It's a no brainer...one day of VSat internet use is more than this for a month...T-Mobile cellular phones when out of the country have free data (slow!), free texting and calls are $0.25 / min in over 200 countries with no additional day or weekly fees. I do not work for T-Mobile, or even own stock...just happy to share...the best of the best for cellular and internet for people who move about...

 

[Tator]

Got ripped off by T-Mobile last Summer in Alaska and will NEVER use them again even if it's the only way to call St. Peter and beg forgiveness! Sales people guaranteed us that we would have 100GB/mo full speed data on our boat in Petersburg, Ak. The reality was that after 2GB the speed was unbearably slow. Was told that the hotspot was free-tried to make us pay for it. Ended up having to go with the local carrier and having to pay for useless T-Mobile for the Summer. I'm now an official T-Mobile hater.

Tator

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Got ripped off by T-Mobile last Summer in Alaska and will NEVER use them again even if it's the only way to call St. Peter and beg forgiveness! Sales people guaranteed us that we would have 100GB/mo full speed data on our boat in Petersburg, Ak. The reality was that after 2GB the speed was unbearably slow. Was told that the hotspot was free-tried to make us pay for it. Ended up having to go with the local carrier and having to pay for useless T-Mobile for the Summer. I'm now an official T-Mobile hater.



Tator

Other than the big cities in SEAK (K-Town, Sitka and Juneau) AT&T owns SEAK. No data for non-AT&A folks in small villages.

 

[Tator]

Went with GCI for our hotspot, an Alaska company with great coverage in all of SE. We use Verizon for our cellphone coverage.

Tator

 

[tpbrady]

Tator,

My experience is that GCI’s coverage is a fraction of ATT especially away from the larger communities. They are not an Alaska company any longer after being bought by Liberty Media a couple years ago. There aren’t many Alaska companies in the telecom sector any longer that aren’t member owned cooperatives.

Tom

 

[Alaskaflyer]

T Mobile “unlimited” while a decent - perhaps best - deal within the contiguous 48 is actually very limited when roaming on another’s system as happens in Alaska.

 

[rslifkin]

T Mobile “unlimited” while a decent - perhaps best - deal within the contiguous 48 is actually very limited when roaming on another’s system as happens in Alaska.

If you're traveling far and wide, you may need more than 1 carrier. Otherwise, now that all of the big 3 finally have decent data only plans, you pick based on who has the best coverage in your cruising area.