Water in Fuel took us down - Fuel Polishers

[AusCan]

Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?

The deck fittings vary in size and so would the o-rings. You can buy an O-ring assortment kit which contains 400+ o-rings of all sizes up to 2" for about $20. Most deck filler fittings would be less than 2" It will last you a lifetime.

Available at any automotive parts store or on ebay etc.

btw- These nitrile rubber o-rings aren't suitable for high pressure or high temperature applications, but are fine for this job.

 

[C lectric]

KEV RM
Simply take one of the caps , if they are all the same, and head for a good auto parts store or a seal house. Most A.P stores have a selection of O rings.

,
AusCan
standard Buna N O rings, N70, some N90, are good for several thousand PSI. Used lots of them in that kind of service although the applications were static seals, no movement.

Agree about the temperature though but that is not the case for a deck fill plate.

 

[C lectric]

NOrthern Spy

You too? My dock neighbour is in Gibsons but that's interesting and unfortunate.

 

[C lectric]

Kurt

I should have mentioned that people have had water in the fuel tanks from several sources:
--bad fuel from a bad vendor, although even good vendors get caught, so be aware that it can happen.

--engines fitted with seawater cooled fuel coolers have had leaks that allow seawater into the fuel tanks. Unlikely You will have those.

--Vent on the hull sides if not done correctly can allow water into the tanks in rough water. Ideally the vent hose to the hull vent should go somewhat higher than the actual vent and then loop back down to the vent.

--LONG SLOW buildup in tanks with pickups that are several inches above the tank bottom can allow slow buildup over a LONG time untill the level gets high enough that a bit of rough weather causes the water to slop around enough to be picked up.

--and of course accidental fill with water into the fuel tank. I did the reverse once and what a PIA. The only thing saved my bacon was the tank is alum. and I caught it before it entered the rest of the system so the contamination was confined to the one tank.

 

[FF]

"--LONG SLOW buildup in tanks with pickups that are several inches above the tank bottom can allow slow buildup over a LONG time untill the level gets high enough that a bit of rough weather causes the water to slop around enough to be picked up."

A tank designed with a high pickup should have a low point drain.

Usually a valve with a solid plug for safety.

Should be worth a look,

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?

There is not a standard size per say.

You can get them thru a marine store, automotive store or a good hardware store. And of course online if you measure the old O-ring properly.

 

[C lectric]

Sorry for the possible hijacking here - is there a standard size (and a source) for the deck fitting orings?

I'll second that - NO, unfortunately. A given mfgr. may use a standard to them size but there are lots of mfgrs. of deck fills and they are all different.





I agree with FF about adding a drain point at the tank bottom. If you have to get the tank opened up to allow a good polish job to be done look into adding a drain point. Just be sure it is sturdy, has a GOOD locking handle ball valve and then use a plug in the ball valve so even if the handle opens you don't get a leak. Protect that drain some how also from an errant foot or piece of equipment smacking it.


Something I usually do after refilling fuel is try my first filter drain. My tanks are bottom feeders so any junk/water shows up quickly in that filter. Gives me a warning when junk appears rather than run to failure.
May not have helped in your situation with 18G but who knows.

 

[FF]

Folks that fuel often enough , or on non busy times might consider a form of Baja filter.

A bit slower to fill, but not bad considering the hassle if you get bad fuel.

 

[CDreamer]

Water in Fuel Tank

All of the remedies, potential leak-points, etc make sense to me and I'll 2nd and 3rd those recommendations (not that my "endorsement" matters...just starting off by saying that I'm not disagreeing with any of the contributions here)

Having said that, I'm a little suspicious of the following:
- the PO's explanation about the tank being empty for 5 months. Something's up there. Who leaves a fuel tank bone dry? Why?
- The surveyor. Nothing came up? Nothing about potential leaks at the fill points or the top of the tank? No comment about the tank(s) or the decks? Did you go out and run the boat before purchasing? It seems unlikely that you wouldn't have discovered that a tank was all-water. I bought a sailboat about 10 years ago and the broker and I spent a good 3 hours running the engine hard (WOT), all sails up and down, stove, head, sinks, bilge pumps, electronics, lights, etc, etc. It was in good shape but still...and that was BEFORE the survey.
- Your diesel source. Is 18 gal not enough to show on your fuel guage for that tank? I realize that's only about 5% of the tank's capacity but the reason Im asking is that when you filled up, do you have any way of knowing how much "fuel" you pumped into that tank? Because if you pumped in 300 gallons, you got the water during that fill-up. Do you recall which side you filled first and how much you pumped per side? It's not at all unheard of to buy diesel out of a tank with a bunch of water in it. And the 'dirty brown water' comment makes me wonder...are your tanks rusty inside? Rain water isn't typically going to be dirty brown. Anyway, I've always tried to buy from places that move a lot of diesel every day. Was your source a place that sells a lot of diesel?


All of this is a good lesson about fuel supply on board. Without a separate tank somewhere on board, bad fuel puts you totally out of commission. Your mains, your wing engine, genset, etc. all go down together. Can be very, very expensive if the water gets to the engines. I don't know if I'd invest in a FP system - that boat's been around a long time without one - but I'd make what's there bullet proof.

 

[Giggitoni]

Look at the top of your tanks with a mirror. Rust from prolonged leaking deck fill? In other words, eliminate that as a source. Should you find the tops of the tanks rusted beyond hope, cut them out and replace them (see my post from last year). I'll second Flywright's suggestion of looking for a failed deck fill. He took on a significant amount of water quickly....at least three or four beers worth!

 

[kurt.reynolds]

cut them out and replace them (see my post from last year)....

Could you point me to the post from last year? I looked thru a few pages, too many posts....

 

[CPseudonym]

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/replaced-fuel-tanks-26430.html

 

[FlyWright]

Look at the top of your tanks with a mirror. Rust from prolonged leaking deck fill? In other words, eliminate that as a source. Should you find the tops of the tanks rusted beyond hope, cut them out and replace them (see my post from last year). I'll second Flywright's suggestion of looking for a failed deck fill. He took on a significant amount of water quickly....at least three or four beers worth!

Bad timing on my part to have this failure upon arrival at Angel Island with 3 friends in their boats, a couple cases of IPAs on FlyWright and 3 days to drink it. On day 2, while I labored, I lost lots of IPA to my advisers and supervisors.

But it was worth it!

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/fuel-contamination-racor-filter-help-11228.html

 

[Giggitoni]

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/replaced-fuel-tanks-26430.html

Thanks, Craig! Kurt, there you go!

 

[balder]

" last addition: a centrifugal separator ( a small model built in France by France "Hélice, it polishes more or less 60 to 95 L per an hour , the machine is running 230 V, no filters or replacement part.""

This could be a great problem solver for folks here.

Any link or other info?

Sorry for the delay to answer. Here is the link, the technician shows how to clean this small centrifugal separator , considering that you have to clean the machine after use ( but no replacments parts). I have of course no interest with this company and I will soon be able to confirm how does the machine work. I hope, very well!

 

[kurt.reynolds]

Update with Pictures of Tank Cleaning

Well our tanks were cleaned, hopefully you can see the images. The STBD tank had some weird goo in it. Not sure what happened to that tank, but it is clean now. Final picture that is sort of black is the clean tank.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I wonder if the goo was some kind of paint/coating on the tank?

 

[kurt.reynolds]

Two More Pictures of stuff that came out of our tanks...

 

[dhays]

Wow

 

[BandB]

Two More Pictures of stuff that came out of our tanks...

Did they comment on what that was or appeared to be to them?

 

[Lou_tribal]

Two More Pictures of stuff that came out of our tanks...

wow you've got enough black earth to grow some tomatoes in your tanks!

L.

 

[FF]

Two More Pictures of stuff that came out of our tanks...

From the picture it looks like asphaltene,

Asphaltenes are molecular substances that are found in crude oil, along with resins, aromatic hydrocarbons, and saturates (i.e. saturated hydrocarbons such as alkanes). The word "asphaltene" was coined by Boussingault in 1837 when he noticed that the distillation residue of some bitumens had asphalt-like properties.
Asphaltene - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphaltene

 

[psneeld]

Looked just like my tanks when they came out...no yellowish stuff though.


Lots of black crystal almost stuff (asphaltines) over the interiors normally covered with fuel.


About 2 quarts of black, slimy goo in the bottom of each tank. It was down in the vee that was just low enough below the fuel outlet that it never clogged the filters in a couple thousand miles I cruised the boat.

 

[BandB]

Did you end up using Marsh or did you find someone else? Looks to me like it was well worth getting whoever you used.

 

[balder]

Two More Pictures of stuff that came out of our tanks...

I had exactly the same stuf in my tanks two years ago. The guys from the local company, in the Netherlands, came inside with water under pressure ( Karcher) to clean it. Consider also verify and clean the complete diesel circuit, flexibles and pipes..

 

[sunchaser]

Good job Kurt, thanks for posting results.

 

[kurt.reynolds]

Did they comment on what that was or appeared to be to them?

They did not BandB, The tank guys were convinced the water in our tanks was put there by accident. They also thought that it was just general inactivity of the tanks that lead to the sludge. The tank guys also commented on the use of additives and said if you use an additive that is a "bio.....", that it kills biologic, but it also promotes the precipitation of sludge. they gave me a recommendation for an additive that will not promote this precipitation.

 

[Comodave]

What did they recommend?

 

[BandB]

They did not BandB, The tank guys were convinced the water in our tanks was put there by accident. They also thought that it was just general inactivity of the tanks that lead to the sludge. The tank guys also commented on the use of additives and said if you use an additive that is a "bio.....", that it kills biologic, but it also promotes the precipitation of sludge. they gave me a recommendation for an additive that will not promote this precipitation.

Well, very glad they got it clean. Hope you have no more problems, but do make sure you check your fill and all other potential areas for ingress.

 

[kurt.reynolds]

What did they recommend?

Algae-X "AFC-705" Fuel Catalyst