Water Maker or just tanks?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Where is the crossover where a WM is more beneficial than just tanking? Is it the number of days you spend away from a potable hose or is there more to it?
I seel them mostly on larger boats, but my experience is nil.

I'm going to guess that a WM is a pricey thing to add to a boat and probably just LOVES maintenance.

 

[CPD]

As we now boat inland waters 99% of the time, it is a pumpout that brings us to a dock every 2-3 weeks where it is then easy to top up the water tanks (no Water Maker cost or maintenance). When we used to sail in the Caribbean it was the need for water that brought us back to the dock - so a Water Maker would bring more value for those who regularly boat offshore.

 

[Gabe n Em]

A great question. And a very difficult one to answer.

Following.

For us, we dream of a watermaker one day. However, for must cruises, up to a week, we don't really need one. With 80 gals of fw and a salt water head, we can get by just fine.

If we were headed to the more remote parts of the Bahamas, or cruise where the water coming out of a garden hose was suspect, it might start to make sense.

 

[Lepke]

One option to consider with a watermaker is you need less water storage so some of that space could be used for something else. And you also get use more water when you have a watermaker.

 

[markbarendt]

For me the crossover depends on the admiral’s point of view.

 

[mvweebles]

As a guy with 200g of water and a watermaker, I will say the lines never cross. A watermaker is a convenience. You can use seawater, collect rainwater, and use strict but comfortable conservation practices.

Eric and Susan Hiscock circumnavigate around 1960 and carried 80 gallons of water. My guess is they didn't have much access to decent water along the way. Not saying this is a good model, just pointing out that some reasonable practices can extend water

I chose to have a watermaker. But it's a choice and a convenience.

Peter

 

[firehoser75]

Where is the crossover where a WM is more beneficial than just tanking? Is it the number of days you spend away from a potable hose or is there more to it?
I seel them mostly on larger boats, but my experience is nil.

I'm going to guess that a WM is a pricey thing to add to a boat and probably just LOVES maintenance.

Hi Jeff,
Good question and as others have said, no easy answer.
I have boated in the areas you say you are interested in boating, but I do spend most of my time in the northern part of Vancouver Island or the mid BC coast (above Vancouver Island). In these locations, finding GOOD, clean potable water can be a bit hard, but not impossible. We have a 150 gallon tank and use freshwater for flushing. We always shower onboard as well. We can easily make our 150 gallons last 2 weeks, and more if we get very careful with our use. We find that we need to go into a port for provisioning every 2 weeks anyway for veggies, milk, and other perishables. We do not have a watermaker.
Advantages to having a watermaker as I see them:
-You don't have to limit your water use. EG. more and longer showers! You can plumb your "washdown" pump to use freshwater and rinse your anchor and even wash (or rinse off) your boat with freshwater if you want. We can't do that and most marinas up in the areas I mentioned do not allow boat washing/rinsing.

-you don't have to worry about water quality. Some of the northern marinas either don't have potable water, or it is "cedar water" that looks like brewed tea (brown colour), and has a smell to it. I will not put that water in my tank. We often go to Port McNeil for provisions and water.

Disadvantages:
-maintenance. If not used regularly the membrane must be pickled to extend it's useful life. It must be backflushed regularly as well.
- filter and membrane replacements, and other issues like "breakdowns".
- extra costs as a result of this maintenance, but not really significant.
- space for the installation (convenient access to the unit).


I would consider a watermaker to be a good piece of equipment, but not a necessity.

 

[slowgoesit]

It all boils down (no pun intended) to your cruising/boating style. In the Bahama's we'd consider it a must. Even in the PNW we will be putting one in on our new boat.

• If I go swimming, I want a fresh water rinse.
• If I come out from diving, I want a fresh water rinse.
• The forward head will be converted from salt to fresh water flush.
• Fresh water wash down of anchor chain.
• Periodic fresh water rinse of windows.
• No washing of dishes in salt water.
• No water restriction on use of washing machine.
• Fresh water rinse of fishing reels after days fishing.
• Fresh water rinse of Dinghy engine.
• If I want to take a shower at noon, and have gotten sweaty before bed, I'm taking a fresh water shower!

We COULD survive on a lot less fresh water . . . but why would we WANT to? I've slept in a ditch on the side of the road rolled up in desert parka and a poncho over me . . . but I don't HAVE to do that anymore, so why WOULD I?
For us, it comes down to quality of life.

 

[Lou_tribal]

We have no water maker only tanks. Being careful and conservative (no headache we are as much conservative at home), but still taking showers, the maximum time we were able to stay without refilling was 4 to 5 days. I wish I had a water maker or a way to filter water from river/lake to refill the tanks (we are in fresh water no salt water for now) so to be able to stay away from any dock for a longer duration.

L

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

After spending the summer with Crusty who hade a watermarker, that convinced me to get one. Northern BC and SE Alaska are remote and having to make a run to a settlement for water is a PIA.

I installed an RO 40ph water maker and haven't looked back.

Thanks Crusty.

 

[kierasdady]

I'm looking at your boat pic on your post & thinking I might be a bit closer to you in application. To watermaker or not watermaker is one I wrestled with for a long time. I don't know of any <29' boats sporting watermakers, but that's not to say it's a bad idea.
I have 2 30 gal. tanks. That's 500 lbs of water. On a planing boat weight is always an issue. And even though we can be thrifty and usually make 60 gal. last a week with 3-4 people, it's really a pain. On top of that, along the Calif. coast, when it gets droughty, many docks cut off water so your stuck with no way to refill. Lastly, we usually go for 1-2 weeks and sometimes have extra people. Soooo, the following is the rational behind us deciding to add one.
If I close off the second 30 gal. tank, that saves me 250 lbs. (which offsets things like kayaks, air tanks & weight belts, etc.). That also gives me a location to put the majority of the watermaker. We're going for a 20gph setup running off AC. Can run off the Honda generator, or inverter (solar charged). I figure we'll probably run it 1 hr. every 2 or 3 days. For me, the weight savings and unlimited water is worth a little maintenance. Also, if the SHTF, or there's some other disaster, it's a source of fresh water for survival.

 

[tiltrider1]

Adding a water maker is a very personal choice that is influenced by the size of boat you have, the amount of money you have, the area you boat in, the amount of time away from a dock, your definition of glamming and what you like best about cruising.

 

[TBill36]

The only thing I can add to this is my watermaker came with a water tester to determine ppm (parts per million) for total dissolved solids. I now test anything that goes into my tank. I didn't do that before and was probably lucky I didn't get sick as not all water is as pure as you think it is. If nothing else, get a water tester. I think they are about $10 or $20 on the internet.

 

[OldDan1943]

I carry 150 gallons of FW. (one tank, just aft of the shaft log.) One of the first things I added was a water maker.
I have yet to use it but it is nice to have when you cant find a free water supply.
You dont need a large capacity unit. On my N46, I had a Village Marine 150gpd 12vt water maker. My thought was, 12vt run it while under way. 150gpd, run it all day when you are underway.
The N46 carried lots of water a (500 gals+ ??) and was used for ballast.
I think if you run out of fuel before you run out of water, that about the right ratio. Pull in for fuel, fill the water tank at the same time.

The disadvantage of a water maker, gotta find a clean salt water supply to run the water maker ie, off shore. Running in the ICW will significantly shorten the life of the membranes. Then you have to maintain the unit flush and pickle the unit if it is shut down for a period of time.

So, I agree with the 'personal choice' criteria .... is the work worth the benefits.

My water tank had a plug drain on the bottom of the tank. I replaced the plug with a spigot so I can drain and flush the tank. Plus the added feature, if the water pump craps out, I can still get water out of the tank. (I do carry a spare FW pump too)

 

[denverd0n]

The only thing I can add to this is my watermaker came with a water tester to determine ppm (parts per million) for total dissolved solids. I now test anything that goes into my tank. I didn't do that before and was probably lucky I didn't get sick...

Just a point of clarity... Your TDS can be very, very high and still not have anything in the water that would make you even the least bit sick. "Sick" depends a lot more on bacteria in the water than it does on dissolved solids.

 

[ksanders]

The choice to have a watermaker is determined by how you use or want to use your boat than anything else.

If your boating style keeps you away from potable water for longer than your tank capacity you need to have a watermaker or additional tankage.

 

[OldDan1943]

Just a point of clarity... Your TDS can be very, very high and still not have anything in the water that would make you even the least bit sick. "Sick" depends a lot more on bacteria in the water than it does on dissolved solids.

I agree.
The only way to reduce the bacteria count is to add "something" designed to reduce the bacteria count into the water tank or pump outlet line.

 

[tiltrider1]

Watermakers are rarely a necessity. They are usually a convenience item. However, everyone’s needs are different. Ksanders has his water turned off all winter, I would call a WM a necessity in his case. My water hose freezes up for a week each winter. I can drag out a spare hose, fill up the boat, drain the hose and repeat this as long as necessary or I can just push a button and be done. In my case a WM is a convenience.

 

[Art]

Ok, Ok!!

WM's sound great to have aboard... for "reasons" and in many "instances".

So...

1. What is the recommended makes/models and what is the general cost?

2. In general... How difficult is it to position in a boat and hook up to water tanks and power source?

3. In general... 40 gph WM is how big and how heavy?

4. What happens to a WM that was un pickled and not used for considerable time span? How hard is it to get the WM back into operation?

 

[DDW]

Before you put one in, become very familiar with the maintenance requirements of a watermaker. They are one of the highest maintenance systems on a boat. This is especially true in intermittent use. More than a few days between uses you need to pickle it.

 

[ktdtx]

we can get by just fine.

I think that is the main point--is everyone happy "getting by" or do they want to enjoy the regular luxury of long showers, etc. My wife helped me answer that question.

 

[OldDan1943]

I think that is the main point--is everyone happy "getting by" or do they want to enjoy the regular luxury of long showers, etc. My wife helped me answer that question.

I'll bet it was a short answer too.
Did her answer start out with, "If you expect me to go on boating trips....."

 

[bgillroy]

Sounds as though you.need speed with that planning hull comment. Hands down if you can run more efficiently and enjoy cruising at say 8 knots you can easily afford the cost of both fuel and a robust FW system and don't need water maker.

 

[DCDC]

We have a 60gph Sea Recovery system which had been pickled by the PO. The broker noted that it needed new membranes, about $1K. It’s a lot of equipment: 2 membrane cartridges, strainer, 2 large filters, 2 large pumps, controls, valves and a 10 gallon pickle tank.

We also have 900 gallons of water storage so we never re-commissioned the watermaker. We are conservative with water but take daily showers, rinse after swimming or going ashore, wash clothes and have fresh water heads. Typically use 6-10 gal/day and spend 2-3 months at anchor during our Bahama trips. We have bought a few hundred gallons in the Bahamas, typically $0.35/gal, when guests were visiting.

The one thing I miss is not washing down the decks regularly. Salt builds up from spray, forming concentrated salt solution as it absorbs water from the air. We hope for rain but the Bahamas are fairly dry in the spring. Have noticed some rust staining on stainless.

 

[janice142]

I'm looking at your boat pic on your post & thinking I might be a bit closer to you in application. To watermaker or not watermaker is one I wrestled with for a long time. I don't know of any <29' boats sporting watermakers, but that's not to say it's a bad idea.

Seawesd is just 23'. We have a Katadyn40 which for most people would not be sufficient she uses 4aH at 12v and produces 1.5 gph. It's enough for me to not think about water. This is an serious upgrade and one I am incredibly pleased with having.

For me hauling water was difficult. It is physically draining. The mental benefits are beyond wonderful. I know I won't run out of water.

I do have a 30micron pre-filter and swap it out every couple days. That specifically means I remove said filter from its housing, swish it in the river, then hang it in the sunlight to dry. A couple days later I swap for the 30micron in use. Same two filters last for months.

Red tide took one out so I replaced both and waited for the tide to go away.

My water tank had a plug drain on the bottom of the tank. I replaced the plug with a spigot so I can drain and flush the tank. Plus the added feature, if the water pump craps out, I can still get water out of the tank. (I do carry a spare FW pump too)

This is a great idea Cap'n Dan. Thank you.

Another thing you might consider is a hand pump ala the Whale. I ended up purchasing a knock off version for $35 that works well. The "secret" is you must place a one way valve on the hose leading to your hand pump. Otherwise nothing will work. Once I figured out, my systems function flawlessly.

I usually have my water pump shut down except for when I do dishes or take showers. Otherwise it is off. The hand pump allows me to easily get water from the tank.

Anyway, a watermaker is an extravagance, and one I thoroughly enjoy. Mine is 12-volt which basically means I do not have a high producer. The standard ac powered units put out a lot more water than the Katadyn40.

Having the pre-filter readily accessible makes a world of difference. Good luck.

 

[OldDan1943]

Seawesd is just 23'. We have a Katadyn40 which for most people would not be sufficient she uses 4aH at 12v and produces 1.5 gph. It's enough for me to not think about water. This is an serious upgrade and one I am incredibly pleased with having.

For me hauling water was difficult. It is physically draining. The mental benefits are beyond wonderful. I know I won't run out of water.

I do have a 30micron pre-filter and swap it out every couple days. That specifically means I remove said filter from its housing, swish it in the river, then hang it in the sunlight to dry. A couple days later I swap for the 30micron in use. Same two filters last for months.

Red tide took one out so I replaced both and waited for the tide to go away.




This is a great idea Cap'n Dan. Thank you.

Another thing you might consider is a hand pump ala the Whale. I ended up purchasing a knock off version for $35 that works well. The "secret" is you must place a one way valve on the hose leading to your hand pump. Otherwise nothing will work. Once I figured out, my systems function flawlessly.

I usually have my water pump shut down except for when I do dishes or take showers. Otherwise it is off. The hand pump allows me to easily get water from the tank.

Anyway, a watermaker is an extravagance, and one I thoroughly enjoy. Mine is 12-volt which basically means I do not have a high producer. The standard ac powered units put out a lot more water than the Katadyn40.

Having the pre-filter readily accessible makes a world of difference. Good luck.

I have a 12vt Spectra Newport 400 Mk2 with a Spectra remote. One day I may find it necessary to use. If not, the next owner will be happy. SMILE

Per the manual pump. Did you get the chrome one with handle?
I had a foot pump on my N46 and periodically I would wack foot on it.

 

[ksanders]

Ok, Ok!!

WM's sound great to have aboard... for "reasons" and in many "instances".

So...

1. What is the recommended makes/models and what is the general cost?

2. In general... How difficult is it to position in a boat and hook up to water tanks and power source?

3. In general... 40 gph WM is how big and how heavy?

4. What happens to a WM that was un pickled and not used for considerable time span? How hard is it to get the WM back into operation?

I have a watermaker packaged out of off the shelf parts and marketed by a company called Cruise RO.

The watermaker produces 40 GPH and consists of...

* Low Pressure pump (this is a jabsco variable output constant pressure unit)
* Filters (these are standard 10" filters you see at any box store
* High Pressure Pump (this is a 3/4 HP 120 volt motor with a good quality general pump brand stainless steel pressure washer pump bolted to it)
* Two membranes 2.5" X 40" (these are standard Dow membranes)
* A custom designed control panel (this is where you operate the watermaker)

My watermaker output goes to two places with a selector valve. One place is to a spigot on my galley sink. This is where I get my drinking water from, I just fill up a jug and put it in the fridge.

The other output goes to a tee on the intake side of my boats potable water pump. This allows the watermaker to fill whatever tank I have selected at that time.

I have found that maintenance is not what people think. I can for example pickle my watermaker in less than two minutes. All you do is put three tablespoons of food grade Sodium Metabisulfite which I buy from amazon in a gallon jug of water. I then suck the solution into the watermaker using the low pressure pump and a valve installed for this. When I get back to the boat all I do is run the low pressure pump for a few minutes to flush with seawater.

I have hundreds of hours of use on my watermaker and use it for all my water, as a part time stay aboard.

in the last 5 years i have replaced the membranes once at a cost of about $600 and replaced the pre filters every few weeks at a cost of less than $10 a time.
I have also replaced ther high pressure gauge, and the low prerssure pump once each.

My opinion is that watermakers are not nearly the maintenance nightmares folks in internet land make them out to be. Just understand the system and how it works.

 

[Art]

I have a watermaker packaged out of off the shelf parts and marketed by a company called Cruise RO.

The watermaker produces 40 GPH and consists of...

* Low Pressure pump (this is a jabsco variable output constant pressure unit)
* Filters (these are standard 10" filters you see at any box store
* High Pressure Pump (this is a 3/4 HP 120 volt motor with a good quality general pump brand stainless steel pressure washer pump bolted to it)
* Two membranes 2.5" X 40" (these are standard Dow membranes)
* A custom designed control panel (this is where you operate the watermaker)

My watermaker output goes to two places with a selector valve. One place is to a spigot on my galley sink. This is where I get my drinking water from, I just fill up a jug and put it in the fridge.

The other output goes to a tee on the intake side of my boats potable water pump. This allows the watermaker to fill whatever tank I have selected at that time.

I have found that maintenance is not what people think. I can for example pickle my watermaker in less than two minutes. All you do is put three tablespoons of food grade Sodium Metabisulfite which I buy from amazon in a gallon jug of water. I then suck the solution into the watermaker using the low pressure pump and a valve installed for this. When I get back to the boat all I do is run the low pressure pump for a few minutes to flush with seawater.

I have hundreds of ours of use on my watermaker and use it for all my water, as a part time stay aboard.

in the last 5 years i have replaced ther membranes once at a cost of about $600 and replaced the pre filters every few weeks at a cost of less than $10 a time.

My opinion is that watermakers are not nearly the maintenance nightmares folks in internet land make them out to be. Just understand the system and how it works.

Kevin - Thanks very much. - Art

 

[Art]

Seawesd is just 23'. We have a Katadyn40 which for most people would not be sufficient she uses 4aH at 12v and produces 1.5 gph. It's enough for me to not think about water. This is an serious upgrade and one I am incredibly pleased with having.

Thanks, Janice - As usual - your input is priceless!! - Art

 

[Simi 60]

We still have a yachties conservative water usage mentality
Main water tanks are 2500 litres/660 gallon
And can bring about the same on line again if draining and shocking the ballast tankage.
Tender has a 200 litre/50 gallon bladder to supplement supply
And we also have a great water collection system

With just the main tankage and rain we could go 12 mths before needing a proper top up
But, we installed a 40 gph watermaker several months ago
Too good a deal to let slide.

Now those tanks stay full
The boat and us are happier with the weight.