what makes a trawler suitable for ocean crossings?

[mvweebles]

Speaking to the OP will say in my limited exposure have not seen any SD doing this activity and only one KK expedition 55. Even for island hopping from southern Florida doing the gentleman’s way due to many factors FD seems better suited for long term cruising like this. Basic problem is weight and space. In order to have some measure of self sufficiency you want extremely large tankage, spares, tools and creature comforts. It’s very different living on a boat outside the comfort zone of your home cruising grounds. It’s a big deal knowing how to fix things or finding someone who can. You don’t want to be camping but rather have a comfortable safe home. Where do you put all this stuff without effecting trim (and safety)? How do you make things as bulletproof as possible? How do you make things as easy as possible. Deck bladders are cumbersome and dangerous. Maintenance is a never ending chore. You spend very little time moving so ground tackle, dinghy handling (with prevention of theft), freezer not frig space is more important, as is battery draw. The demands for a traveling live aboard are different enough that it seems people are drawn to FD over SD having nothing to do with passage making but rather the day to day when having that additional payload is key.

For island hopping, I think there are more non-FD boats than you might imagine. Lots of GBs and similar. But I'm pretty sure that if you were to count the small pleasure boats transiting the Panama Canal, the top style would not be a FD, not even a sailboat. But a sport fisher. They do more island hopping than just about anything outside of charter sailboats.

Peter

 

[GoneDiving]

They need not be expensive
We took a 48ft ex cray/shark boat with a single 855 natural on a 1200nm run out into the South Pacific to Espiritu Santo
That boat cost under $40,000.
Ideal boat for all conditions? Nope
But for that particular trip it was damn near perfect.
There were zero issues and we picked a perfect weather window with conditions like this for the entire run

Bottom pic was the weekend prior to leaving with a bit of gear aboard

What time of the year was that?

PS. Love the onboard Jacuzzi, bottom right. ?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Crossing the North Atlantic you’ll need a well found passagemaker.
However people have probably done it in a dory. haha

But doing the loop in a passagemaker will find you wanting a different boat.

Trawlers (even the best) are trawlers and not passagemakers. A wheelhouse w red lighting only is just a tiny example of what makes a passagemaker a passagemaker. The wheelhouse on a trawler is basically more of an entertainment center ... a social hub. Hulls, engines and all else on the passagemaker will be different .. usually different.

So IMO a trawler is never suitable for ocean crossings. And just the talk of it is not trawler talk.

 

[BandB]

Ocean Cruising Club. Need a documented small boat passage of >1500nm and a sponsor to be put up for membership. Started in England but now world wide with port captains every where. Allows networking and education to local resources when you hit a new to you port. Burgee is the flying fish

Salty Dawg Sailing Association. Sponsors a spring and fall rally to eastern Caribbean from US east coast. Usually Norfolk to BVI or Antigua in the fall and back in the spring. We’ve done it multiple times but several times leaving from Newport. Comparable to the ARC(Atlantic rally for cruisers) Caribbean 1500. Although mostly sail several power boats (usually Norhavns or the like) have joined and done SDRs. Burgee is a Dawgs face with eye patch.

Admit it’s a small community but there is an active community of primarily ex blue water sailors who have switched to power and continue to run back and forth to the Caribbean with the seasons. Norhavn under 55’, LRCs of various sorts in low to mid 50s, one offs and steel seem to be most common in those I’ve run across. Know of several pretty old Dashew 64s as well doing this activity. Most are mom and pop with tens of thousands of blue water miles under their keel. Very few are credit card captains or 1%ers. Just folks who like to cruise and be as self sufficient as possible.

Peter there’s poseurs in any field of endeavor. Suspect you ran across quite a few in your professional life. But there’s a group of self effacing people who just want to get it done and live their lives as they see fit. They tend to be sponges for information that may help them down the road. You have a lot of knowledge and can teach me a lot of useful things. Please continue to have that as one of your focuses.

A couple of comments. The Salty Dawg route is the way to find out if it's for you as well. I call it an intermediate step. You can take a 1500 nm trip off shore but still somewhat coastal. Spend days at sea but never more than a day from a coast. Develop skills and/or determine what your skills are and what you still could improve upon. We've done long offshore runs and would not hesitate to make the run described. Typically it's done as a seasonal relocation. Now your run from Newport vs. Norfolk may have taken you further off shore but still short of crossing the Atlantic in distance from shore.

We've made long runs home, although much shorter than your run, from the Virgin Islands and similarly long runs just up the east coast and to and from the Cayman Islands and Jamaica. The point is that you don't have to become an Atlantic or Pacific crossing boater in one move. Cross the Gulf of Alaska or Mexico. Make a long run to the Caribbean. Run off the US coast. Run Miami to Newport.

I would never recommend one who has only done coastal cruising suddenly decide to cross the Atlantic, but extend your range. Run the coast off shore for days. Run to the Caribbean as Salty Dawgs do. Work up from 500 to 1000 to 1500 to 2000 nm. Address all the challenges along the way and find out if it's for you. Then decide whether crossing on your own bottom or shipping is right for you.

 

[Hippocampus]

Salty Dawg leaves Norfolk crosses the Gulf Stream, passes south of Bermuda (usually 200-300nm) and lands in Antigua or BVI. Typical transit is 1500-1800nm of open ocean. Deviations to avoid weather adds miles. Only when first leaving or approaching landfall are you near shore. You are outside helicopter range for nearly the entire voyage. You are outside any shipping channels as well except when near shore. You try to run the great circle course as best you can. I’ve done this trip several times without having any vessel in sight except at origin and landfall. It’s uncommon to even have anyone in vhf range. Communication is SSB and satphone. Home is usually easier but had one 16 day voyage which included 7 1/2 days of being hove to. Usually just do the rhumb line. Wait until you hit the stream but time crossing and site for pleasant conditions. Run the stream and take a left where you want to get off.
BandB typical progression to blue water is to crew on multiple boats under multiple captains. Learn by doing. Don’t just stand watches but engage the captain and other crew to understand what goes through their minds. Help with prep so you learn what’s involved. Sure learn your weather and nav from courses or books but experience teaches. Nothing equals that. I had been doing coastal for decades. I was clueless about voyaging until I started doing it.
BTW the legs in the northern route from US to Europe are shorter. Southern route home potentially more stressful. Personally would be more intimidated by the pacific (if not just running a sled to Hawaii) and even more so the Indian Ocean. That’s why so many round the world boats are abandoned or become deck cargo when they reach Thailand.
I still take courses. Every few years Safety at Sea, an engine course and a weather course. These are helpful. There’s new stuff but more importantly brushing up on stuff you don’t frequently use is most helpful to me. My forgetter works too well ��.

 

[BandB]

Salty Dawg leaves Norfolk crosses the Gulf Stream, passes south of Bermuda (usually 200-300nm) and lands in Antigua or BVI. Typical transit is 1500-1800nm of open ocean. Deviations to avoid weather adds miles. Only when first leaving or approaching landfall are you near shore. You are outside helicopter range for nearly the entire voyage. You are outside any shipping channels as well except when near shore. You try to run the great circle course as best you can. I’ve done this trip several times without having any vessel in sight except at origin and landfall. It’s uncommon to even have anyone in vhf range. Communication is SSB and satphone. Home is usually easier but had one 16 day voyage which included 7 1/2 days of being hove to. Usually just do the rhumb line. Wait until you hit the stream but time crossing and site for pleasant conditions. Run the stream and take a left where you want to get off.
BandB typical progression to blue water is to crew on multiple boats under multiple captains. Learn by doing. Don’t just stand watches but engage the captain and other crew to understand what goes through their minds. Help with prep so you learn what’s involved. Sure learn your weather and nav from courses or books but experience teaches. Nothing equals that. I had been doing coastal for decades. I was clueless about voyaging until I started doing it.
BTW the legs in the northern route from US to Europe are shorter. Southern route home potentially more stressful. Personally would be more intimidated by the pacific (if not just running a sled to Hawaii) and even more so the Indian Ocean. That’s why so many round the world boats are abandoned or become deck cargo when they reach Thailand.
I still take courses. Every few years Safety at Sea, an engine course and a weather course. These are helpful. There’s new stuff but more importantly brushing up on stuff you don’t frequently use is most helpful to me. My forgetter works too well ��.

I consider within 300 nm of Bermuda or similar to be near shore. Yes, the northern crossing of the Atlantic has shorter runs but I am comparing to runs from the Caribbean or Bermuda across the Atlantic with days distant from shore. I would also be more intimidated by the Pacific than the Atlantic.

Our longest run without land is currently just over 1000 nm. 1500 nm may be a next step for us. We've also run to Bermuda so as far off shore as the Salty Dawg runs. Your Newport run definitely further off than the Norfolk run.

Our method of preparing is building up to it but also for our first Atlantic Crossing we will others with us who have made many previous crossings.

I would say you learn each trip. We also continue to take courses both to maintain our licenses and to expand our knowledge and exposure.

 

[Simi 60]

What time of the year was that?

Early March
Lots of nice big highs
But still chance of Cyclone, we had to hide out from a small one while there but it missed us.

PS. Love the onboard Jacuzzi, bottom right. ?

Cut down IBC tank, worked a treat.
Seriously considering one on the foredeck of current vessel.

 

[78puget-trawler]

8 pages in a week!! HOLY SMOKES! Must be the Covid! My answer to the question however is this, "you're gonna need a bigger boat".

 

[GoneDiving]

Cut down IBC tank, worked a treat.
Seriously considering one on the foredeck of current vessel.

Yep they make great dive gear soak tanks. I was going to say that they deform pretty badly once the cage is removed but I see you formed a rolled edge. Good thinking

Cheers

 

[Hippocampus]

“Need a bigger boat “.

Don’t think this is necessary true. Will state the obvious - the DD 46 design has done truly remarkable transits including many transoceanic and many go “home” on their own bottoms from mainland China. And of course the N40 has gone RTW. The smaller Ns such as the 46 then 40 then 43 have more oceanic transit miles then the big ones. On the NOG and Dreamers sites this has been documented. The ideal size for most mom and pop long term cruisers I know seems to be in the 40-50’ range. Big enough for long term liveaboard. Small enough to be handled by them and be affordable.

So it’s not size alone that makes for a good seaboat. Real issue here is expense as Peter alluded to and that it’s purpose built for that type of cruising. Been looking at boats. Purchase price for a good quality coastal boat and seaboat are in spitting distance of each other if you’re willing to have a slightly older seaboat. USN did service life studies of grp at a time when current resins weren’t available nor infusion/vacuum bagging. In spite of this still looking at ~100y with minimal attention for solid glass. Most boats are underutilized when considering hours underway (not hours of enjoyment). Boats in this class tend to be well maintained due to level of initial purchase price. So time available not just expense are the limitation for many. Although I continue to believe coastal is in many respects is more dangerous than ocean many are apprehensive about ocean passage. Had a insurance broker as crew which was eye opening. Even viewing total loses but more apparent on claims made the prior statement seems confirmed. His interpretation was people doing ocean have more skill sets, more prep, more appropriate decisions about which boat to use, who as crew and when to go. Risk mitigation strategies leads to less risk.

In sailing crowds there’s a old saw “go small...go now”. So my questions to you is:
For how many here is this thread irrelevant? There’s 160 posts here. Why is it irrelevant?
Expense? You can easily blow $500k on a good coastal vessel or even $1m without much effort. Going higher doesn’t take much work either.

Peter mentioned Sportfish going through Panama Canal. Have a friend who uses his Enrique for blue tuna. His annual budget is orders of magnitude higher than mine. What he blows in a day going to the canyons or even the race off P’town is more than I spend in a month or more. For many coastal cruisers expenses per mile traveled is higher. Expense per day spent onboard is more a reflection of lifestyle (anchor v marina, entertainment choices etc.) then having anything to do with the boat.

Why have you discounted having a seaboat? What’s the pull of being a looper rather than a voyager? Being coastal rather than mixing the experiences?

Are there any here for whom this is a relevant discussion?

 

[Fish53]

Crossing the North Atlantic you’ll need a well found passagemaker.
However people have probably done it in a dory. haha

But doing the loop in a passagemaker will find you wanting a different boat.

Trawlers (even the best) are trawlers and not passagemakers. A wheelhouse w red lighting only is just a tiny example of what makes a passagemaker a passagemaker. The wheelhouse on a trawler is basically more of an entertainment center ... a social hub. Hulls, engines and all else on the passagemaker will be different .. usually different.

So IMO a trawler is never suitable for ocean crossings. And just the talk of it is not trawler talk.

Howard Blackburn single handed across the Atlantic by dory in 1899, of course "single handed" doesn't really apply as he had no hands. I agree that this is in truth an inappropriate topic for this site as most "trawlers" on here are more of a floating RV and true seamanship a secondary consideration.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Fish53,
Is that a FG Navy Whaleboat?
I worked on them in the 70’s. At Uniflite. Installed rudder ports, stuffing boxes and aluminum engine bearers. We made them out of grey FG.
Or is she a local boat made of wood? In the day or lately.

 

[Fish53]

Fish53,
Is that a FG Navy Whaleboat?
I worked on them in the 70’s. At Uniflite. Installed rudder ports, stuffing boxes and aluminum engine bearers. We made them out of grey FG.
Or is she a local boat made of wood? In the day or lately.

The hull is a 1976 fiberglass Webbers Cove USCG whaleboat built here in Maine. It's a bit different than the more common navy versions, more sheer and a skeg. It had a Perkins 4-108 but I repowered it and did the other work, it's small but it's been fun. How are you doin'?