Which Class B AIS do you have?

[Boydski]

I agree with Kevin, I recently changed from a crappy AIS receiver to a new Simrad AIS transceiver. Several times now when running in fog, I have seen boats altering course based on my broadcast AIS & calculated CPA (closest point of approach) while I was hidden from radar behind a large anchored ship or point of land.

I find the AIS data to be much more accurate than CPA (MARPA) via radar and in a busy harbor you get more information, earlier than radar provides.

 

[BobH]

Our only experience so far has been up and down the Houston Ship Channel and we love our AIS transceiver, especially in the fog. It allows us to determine direction of travel and speed in an instant. Can also be done with radar but it is much more time consuming. And as Baker mentioned, it allows you see around corners and be able to hail other boats by name and they can also hail you by name.

The one thing that does annoy me about pleasure boaters with AIS, is having the unit transmit while they are tied to a dock in a marina. I don't know about other units, but our Sitex has a silent mode, it will receive but not transmit.

Bob

 

[rwidman]

............ The one thing that does annoy me about pleasure boaters with AIS, is having the unit transmit while they are tied to a dock in a marina. I don't know about other units, but our Sitex has a silent mode, it will receive but not transmit.

Bob

It's pretty common. I don't think you're going to change this behavior.

 

[TONTOROSS]

SomeSailor I tried to send you a private msg, did you get it? Thanks Tonto.

 

[psneeld]

I think you would be surprised at how much the two have in common and I personally think pilots make pretty good boaters.

For a start, they tend to not run out of fuel
Do a thorough pre departure engine/systems check.
Are professional on the radio.
Pretty good navigators.
Are constantly aware of traffic in the area.
Tend to have a plan, and an alternative, prior to departure
Scan their engine instruments every few minutes etc etc etc...

There are more airports (many are uncontrolled) than harbors and there are many aircraft still flying without even radios never mind transponders.

Flew professionally for 21 years...know plenty of non-pilots that are just as if not more pro than flyer types...sorry...start a separate thread and every comparison I'll probably be able to counter it.

Remember I said boating in general and not too specific...sure punching a mega yacht into NYC in the fog as a professional captain...absolute similarities....daydreaming down the intracoastal at six knots I would hope would be less demanding as you don't need a license for it.

 

[psneeld]

Difficult to understand why pros like Baker and Psneeld are not avid supporters of send receive AIS. But then I have to remind myself that old time goalies like Gump Worsley and Jaques Plante hated the advent of hockey masks.

Tends to make me think that there is a syndrome at work that says full AIS is for sissies. Count me as one wearing a skirt here. My send/receive Class AIS is into its 5th season and much utilized on our vessel and appreciated by the commercial guys, so they say when the weather is closed in.

There's many levels to the discussion...do I think AIS is a great tool/invention?...absolutely.

Can it or will it make shipping and commercial traffic safer?...hard to think it won't.

Don't take my skepticism of the tool and it's value as the same as its total use on the water....

Until WAY more boats have it...I just see it barely useful...as was pointed out...the vessels that are required to have it are pretty predictable where they will be and what speeds they are headed and they are probably also RAM or under Rule 9 so again we don't usually play in the same water by MY choice.

Since I started seeing it in use on commercial vessels I've been on and applying its function over my last several trips to Florida and back...only a handful of vessels in my vicinity would have had it onboard.(granted I travel a bit off season but even with the Fall/Spring migration I don't see it as a high value tool mingling with snowbirders on the ditch).

 

[Baker]

Difficult to understand why pros like Baker and Psneeld are not avid supporters of send receive AIS. But then I have to remind myself that old time goalies like Gump Worsley and Jaques Plante hated the advent of hockey masks.

Tends to make me think that there is a syndrome at work that says full AIS is for sissies. Count me as one wearing a skirt here. My send/receive Class AIS is into its 5th season and much utilized on our vessel and appreciated by the commercial guys, so they say when the weather is closed in.

You missed on the psychoanalysis! It is simply a money issue. If you want to come install a transceiver on my boat, have at it. My only point was that it was my prerogative to equip my boat as I see fit. And it is yours as well.

And I have a comparison for you psneeld. AIS and TCAS in airplanes are. Basically the exact same thing. The difference being that where I operate my $100 million airplane with 170 trusting souls on board, a certain type of transponder is required. So it is 100% participation and it works quite well.

Is a AIS a good tool. Sure! So are you for the USCG mandating its installation and use? Maybe they could do it like airplanes...only require it in commercial high density areas?

And we can do without the condescending tone!... I am far from a pro!!

 

[N4712]

Except Furuno NaveNet 3D systems. They don't accept AIS via N2K, nor do they re-broadcast their proprietary AIS on N2K so other devices can use it.

Didn't know that.Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Baker]

I guess I just blew my argument....TCAS...Traffic Collision Avoidance System. And I said it was basically the same thing. Oh well....

The "participating" airplanes don't necessarily have TCAS on board. They just have to have a certain type of transponder that provides info to the TCAS that is required on larger aircraft. So they are transmitting data to be used by TCAS. Blah blah blah...don't mean to get off track...just saying there are similarities. The main reason you see the legislation in aviation is the potential for a massive loss of life. It generally does not exist on boats....at least not on recreational boats. So.......

 

[psneeld]

I guess I just blew my argument....TCAS...Traffic Collision Avoidance System. And I said it was basically the same thing. Oh well....

The "participating" airplanes don't necessarily have TCAS on board. They just have to have a certain type of transponder that provides info to the TCAS that is required on larger aircraft. So they are transmitting data to be used by TCAS. Blah blah blah...don't mean to get off track...just saying there are similarities. The main reason you see the legislation in aviation is the potential for a massive loss of life. It generally does not exist on boats....at least not on recreational boats. So.......

And I could go on and on.....

 

[sunchaser]

The "Heavy Weather" thread ties right into this one. Could those 7 lost souls on the Nina have been found or saved if they'd had SPOT or AIS? Let alone saving millions of dollars in S&R costs. Or how about the multitude of boats lost in November in and around NZ when big seas and gales unexpectedly showed up. Sailors all, and most from the US too, makes me wonder -----------.

 

[twistedtree]

The "Heavy Weather" thread ties right into this one. Could those 7 lost souls on the Nina have been found or saved if they'd had SPOT or AIS? Let alone saving millions of dollars in S&R costs. Or how about the multitude of boats lost in November in and around NZ when big seas and gales unexpectedly showed up. Sailors all, and most from the US too, makes me wonder -----------.

I think an EPIRB would have been the appropriate device under the circumstances. I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if they had one and whether any signal was ever picked up.

I don't think AIS would have been any help unless there were another boat in close proximity. If they were close enough for AIS, the VHF would have presumably worked too since they use the same technology.

And I don't think SPOT is any substitute for an EPIRB.

Either way, it was tragic.

 

[psneeld]

While I love and trust EPIRBs...unless a hydrostatic release functions correctly or someone manually grabs and turns on the other sort...EPIRBs only work if turned on and float.

SPOT and similar devices do have the advantage that someone might have a recent position that will make the search area worth a dang.

While new and I am unfamiliar with it...there is now satellite AIS....

Satellite AIS

 

[Insequent]

Originally Posted by twistedtree
Except Furuno NaveNet 3D systems. They don't accept AIS via N2K, nor do they re-broadcast their proprietary AIS on N2K so other devices can use it.

Yep, and so I had to buy the Furuno unit.

I have my Comnav AIS Class B showing AIS targets on my Furuno NavNet 3D. Just do it with NMEA 0183. The Furuno accepts both N2K and 0183 inputs.

 

[ksanders]

Originally Posted by twistedtree
Except Furuno NaveNet 3D systems. They don't accept AIS via N2K, nor do they re-broadcast their proprietary AIS on N2K so other devices can use it.



I have my Comnav AIS Class B showing AIS targets on my Furuno NavNet 3D. Just do it with NMEA 0183. The Furuno accepts both N2K and 0183 inputs.

Uh oh another boat buck I let go into the sea unnecessarily.

Well... I guess it works though.

 

[sunchaser]

. I have my Comnav AIS Class B showing AIS targets on my Furuno NavNet 3D. Just do it with NMEA 0183. The Furuno accepts both N2K and 0183 inputs.

Ditto my Simrad into NN3. But I cheated and hooked into the Maretron loop so all is NMEA 2000.

 

[Alex F]

Are there any reason there are no "Camino 108" and/or "AIT2000" on the list of AIS units?

I have AIS on my wishlist and trying to find the cost-efficient solution.

 

[twistedtree]

Are there any reason there are no "Camino 108" and/or "AIT2000" on the list of AIS units?

I have AIS on my wishlist and trying to find the cost-efficient solution.

Not sure what list you are referring to.

 

[Alex F]

Not sure what list you are referring to.

What I meant was that from the all responses we've got from everyone, I don't recall seeing these two brands. So, I was just wondering if there's anything more than just not enough responses or folks find the other brands more as the "best package for the money"?

 

[Alex F]

So far, I have the following units on the list:

- Sitex
- EM-TRAK
- Comnav Mariner X2
- West Marine AIS 1000
- AMEC-CAMINO-108
- ACR / Nauticast-B AIS 300
- Digital Yacths AIT2000
- Raymarine

I'm trying to determine which one to get based on the difference in features.

My boat is equipped with Raymarine dual E120 MFDs.

 

[ranger58sb]

Ours is Furuno, FA-50 I think.

-Chris

 

[N4712]

So far, I have the following units on the list: - Sitex - EM-TRAK - Comnav Mariner X2 - West Marine AIS 1000 - AMEC-CAMINO-108 - ACR / Nauticast-B AIS 300 - Digital Yacths AIT2000 I'm trying to determine which one to get based on the difference in features.

I would also add the Vesper Marine XB-8000, it's loaded with features. We just ordered one to replace our crappy transceiver.

 

[twistedtree]

So far, I have the following units on the list: - Sitex - EM-TRAK - Comnav Mariner X2 - West Marine AIS 1000 - AMEC-CAMINO-108 - ACR / Nauticast-B AIS 300 - Digital Yacths AIT2000 - Raymarine I'm trying to determine which one to get based on the difference in features. My boat is equipped with Raymarine dual E120 MFDs.

If you have E120 displays then I'd start by looking at the Raymarine AIS offerings. They will likely be easier to manage in conjunction with your E120, and no finger pointing if you have troubles . You could probably save a few bucks with one of the 3rd party devices, but it will be up to you to get it all working, which depending on your skills may be easy or hard.

 

[Alex F]

If you have E120 displays then I'd start by looking at the Raymarine AIS offerings. They will likely be easier to manage in conjunction with your E120, and no finger pointing if you have troubles . You could probably save a few bucks with one of the 3rd party devices, but it will be up to you to get it all working, which depending on your skills may be easy or hard.

It's interesting that new models from RM aren't even compatible with my E120 Classic MFDs.

Raymarine AIS Transmitter Comparison

I have to see if an older AIS RM units will work. Now I wonder the compatibility of other AIS brands with my E120 Classics. I assumed that since I have NMEA2000 Network Switch I'll be able to utilize any brand that supports NMEA2000.

 

[N4712]

It's interesting that new models from RM aren't even compatible with my E120 Classic MFDs. Raymarine AIS Transmitter Comparison I have to see if an older AIS RM units will work. Now I wonder the compatibility of other AIS brands with my E120 Classics. I assumed that since I have NMEA2000 Network Switch I'll be able to utilize any brand that supports NMEA2000.

Do you mean a backbone? As long as your chart-plotter is N2k compatible any N2K capable ais will work, although I've been told NN3D won't receive ais data via N2k.

 

[Alex F]

Do you mean a backbone? As long as your chart-plotter is N2k compatible any N2K capable ais will work, although I've been told NN3D won't receive ais data via N2k.

Yes, my electronics are mixed between NMEA0183 and SeaTalk protocols and this data gets passed to the NMEA2000 network switch, which allows both MFDs share any type of data (including radar and weather).

I haven't looked at AIS installation manuals, but I assumed that I should be able to plug it in to my NMEA2000 Network Switch and both MFDs would be able to share AIS data.

Do I also need to have AIS hooked up to NMEA0183 bus as an input?

 

[twistedtree]

Any N2K AIS should work PROVIDED the chart plotter vendor has issued sw updates to fix bugs and keep up with changes. aIS over N2K was late to the party getting standardized. Some vendors ate better than others at issuing updates to fix bugs. Thats where the finger pointing comes in.

The other consideration is how you set up the AIS and otherwise manage it. Some interface is needed, and they are all proprietary. Many use a serial cable to a computer, some use a web interface, and others can be managed through the chart plotter. Once set up, Class B requires little to no ongoing management, so this isn't a huge issue, but worth a little thought.

 

[psneeld]

I think the RAYMARINE issue is chartplotter to chartplotter....not the NEMA transfer...

After I has bought my e7 hybrid series...the fine print added after the manual was printed that it may not be compatible with any other RAYMARINE charplotters.

They also have a total recall on the e7 touchscreen products...maybe more but I didn't read further...the steam off my head was stinging my eyes...

 

[Alex F]

I just downloaded RM AIS350 and AIS650 installation manual. Everything looked fine until I saw the GPS Antenna connection section, which states:

"The GPS supplied as part of your AIS transceiver system has a
fitted 10 m (33ft) cable to connect to the transceiver’s GPS antenna
connector.
Connect the cable from the GPS antenna to the GPS connector on
the underside of the AIS transceiver.

If the GPS is not connected, the transceiver will operate in Silent
Mode and an alarm message will be generated. You must
acknowledge all alarm messages. The transceiver will not transmit,
but will still receive."

I was under the impression that latest AIS transceivers have built-in GPS antenna. I guess this means that not all brands have it that way. If I can avoid drilling extra holes on that radar arch (where I already have two GPS antennas) I'd prefer to go with built-in GPS. So, I guess this is one of the criteria to look at other brands over Raymarine.

 

[N4712]

I just downloaded RM AIS350 and AIS650 installation manual. Everything looked fine until I saw the GPS Antenna connection section, which states: "The GPS supplied as part of your AIS transceiver system has a fitted 10 m (33ft) cable to connect to the transceiver’s GPS antenna connector. Connect the cable from the GPS antenna to the GPS connector on the underside of the AIS transceiver. If the GPS is not connected, the transceiver will operate in Silent Mode and an alarm message will be generated. You must acknowledge all alarm messages. The transceiver will not transmit, but will still receive." I was under the impression that latest AIS transceivers have built-in GPS antenna. I guess this means that not all brands have it that way. If I can avoid drilling extra holes on that radar arch (where I already have two GPS antennas) I'd prefer to go with built-in GPS. So, I guess this is one of the criteria to look at other brands over Raymarine.

The Vesper Marine has both, but It'll depend on location if it works, one would think.