Wide Spread in LFP Battery Prices

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TBill36

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Getting adds for LFP batteries because my computer and phone are listening to me behind my back. Latest great deal is a 135 AH 12v Dakota for $1200. If I look around I can find similar not so recognizable names for $300. And lots of stuff in between. Are the no-names worth considering and if so, how do you determine what's a good one and what to avoid.
 
Go to marinehowto.com and read Rods article on these type of batteries. It may help you see what to look for.
 
There are YouTubers who do nothing but buy LFP batteries, test them and disassemble them in order to evaluate them.

Lately, they have been finding no difference between the expensive and the mid to low range batteries. They still find issues with the cheapest batteries.

Watch the reviews and then pick a manufacturer that appeals to you.

LiTime and EG4 have gotten good reviews and are inexpensive batteries. If you are in a freezing part of the world make sure your battery comes with a low temperature sensor.
 
Tillbill36
definitely check out Epoch!!! High quality at a moderate price. Great customer service, even answered the phone on a holiday. I've had 4 100 amp since spring.
cheers J.T
 
tiltrider1 said:
There are YouTubers who do nothing but buy LFP batteries, test them and disassemble them in order to evaluate them.

Lately, they have been finding no difference between the expensive and the mid to low range batteries. They still find issues with the cheapest batteries.

Watch the reviews and then pick a manufacturer that appeals to you.

LiTime and EG4 have gotten good reviews and are inexpensive batteries. If you are in a freezing part of the world make sure your battery comes with a low temperature sensor.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Will Prowse on YouTube continues to be a good source of information for battery tear-downs. Some of the older, respected brands such as Battle Born must be struggling to defend their premium price given their value proposition has eroded significantly. Not only are many of the newer brands significantly cheaper but they have advanced features such as BMSs that communicate with external devices such as Victron chargers.

There is still junk out there, but there are many more satisfactory options than just a year or so ago. Paying a premium amount does not mean a premium product right now. Why? The B-School classic "The Innovators Dilemma" describes how early market leaders become intoxicated with their premium profit margins and cannot adjust until it's too late.

Peter
 
mvweebles said:
Agree 100%. Will Prowse on YouTube continues to be a good source of information for battery tear-downs. Some of the older, respected brands such as Battle Born must be struggling to defend their premium price given their value proposition has eroded significantly. Not only are many of the newer brands significantly cheaper but they have advanced features such as BMSs that communicate with external devices such as Victron chargers.

There is still junk out there, but there are many more satisfactory options than just a year or so ago. Paying a premium amount does not mean a premium product right now. Why? The B-School classic "The Innovators Dilemma" describes how early market leaders become intoxicated with their premium profit margins and cannot adjust until it's too late.

Peter
Click to expand...

Totally agree. EG4 just dropped the price on their server rack style battery to $1000 for a 100lbs 400ah battery and Will gives EG4 a top ratting.

Will says there is nothing wrong with Battle Born batteries but he says the only thing special about them is the price.
 
I have 4 100ah Power Queen 12.8v batteries that were $309 each when I got them 12 months ago. We are full timer liveaboard cruisers and they have been operating just fine. A month ago I ran them down to 15% to check them and they operated just fine.

I will leave it to each to decide if a $800-1000 battery is better

Those same batteries are like $275 each now
 
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tiltrider1 said:
Will says there is nothing wrong with Battle Born batteries but he says the only thing special about them is the price.
Click to expand...

And maybe their marketing budget ?
 
Yeah. I paid a grand each for two Li Time 12 volt 300AH batteries, about the same size as the (2) 4D AGM's in there now and they weigh 60 lbs each. Now I think they are close to $900.

I have watched the You Tubes on these batteries also before buying and I'm impressed with the build quality. Good connections, totally sealed and the cells are surrounded by foam. I think you could hit one with a hammer with no damage. Also not worried about freezing here in CA, doesn't get that cold so low temp protection not needed.
 
tiltrider1 said:
There are YouTubers who do nothing but buy LFP batteries, test them and disassemble them in order to evaluate them.

Lately, they have been finding no difference between the expensive and the mid to low range batteries. They still find issues with the cheapest batteries.

Watch the reviews and then pick a manufacturer that appeals to you.

LiTime and EG4 have gotten good reviews and are inexpensive batteries. If you are in a freezing part of the world make sure your battery comes with a low temperature sensor.
Click to expand...
Nowdays, the heated battery option is available

Don L said:
I have 4 100ah Power Queen 12.8v batteries that were $309 each when I got them 12 months ago. We are full timer liveaboard cruisers and they have been operating just fine. A month ago I ran them down to 15% to check them and they operated just fine.

I will leave it to each to decide if a $800-1000 battery is better

Those same batteries are like $275 each now
Click to expand...
You should send Rod a report. Have you seen what he thinks of your batteries?
 
In May I bought 4 LFP and then bought another 4 identical ones in July for approx $500 less. Now I just check and they are another $4-500 less.
I am pissed about how they are all dropping price, this is not new tech, it is just that we trawler folk are now buying into it. Usually prices go up???
 
Prices on electrical stuff usually goes down.

I bought a 40 inch LED TV for the boat a couple months ago and it was a hundred bucks.
 
SteveK said:
In May I bought 4 LFP and then bought another 4 identical ones in July for approx $500 less. Now I just check and they are another $4-500 less.
I am pissed about how they are all dropping price, this is not new tech, it is just that we trawler folk are now buying into it. Usually prices go up???
Click to expand...

What brand if I may ask?

L
 
I did a lot of research on this. In some case the batteries were very different!

Some have Bluetooth, a port for firmware upgrades, some have heaters, some don't have a low temp cut off as in the Power Queen. Some have automatic heaters some don't So you need to decide, what fits your needs.

In my case I live just out side of Boston where the temp can go below 32 degrees. So the battery I went with will Turn on the heater automatically. When it reaches temp, it start charging. Bluetooth is nice, I can see the rate of charge or discharge per battery.

Warranty and tech support is another factor. How easy are they to talk to. Look at Victron, a great product and I have there chargers, but try to call them.

In the #2 post was mentioned marinehowto.com. In their site they mention Kilovault. I bought 4 of them and completed my second season with them. All good and tech support told me what setting in my Magnum charger to change. They seamed very to knowledgeable.
 
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mvweebles said:
Agree 100%. Will Prowse on YouTube continues to be a good source of information for battery tear-downs. Some of the older, respected brands such as Battle Born must be struggling to defend their premium price given their value proposition has eroded significantly. Not only are many of the newer brands significantly cheaper but they have advanced features such as BMSs that communicate with external devices such as Victron chargers.

[SNIP]
Click to expand...

The Battle Born approach was to give freebies to all of the big YT channels to get them to push their name. There was no/little differentiation on product.

It even got to a point where the 'wannabe' YT channels were wearing BB merch. to try and get their names onto BB's radar to pickup sponsorship. Was very easy to see through the BS!

Same thing happened with Precision Sails. Was very easy to see they tried to 'buy' YT channels by giving them free sails. There was a stage where all of the big channels were all spouting Precision Sails. Then the wannabes all started jumping on the band-wagon talking up PS to try and get sponsorship.

It is very obvious to anybody that makes a small amount of research effort to see through the BS!

But it happens all the time across all industries where companies try to create a price premium through marketing, rather than product or service.
 
SteveK said:
You should send Rod a report. Have you seen what he thinks of your batteries?
Click to expand...

Why would I care what he thinks? Has he ever torn apart one of my Power Queen batteries? Has he used one full time living/cruising on the boat? Does he have any actural use on my battery at all? It wasn't long ago all he recommended were the $800-1000 100ah batteries and he has a whole section in his "how to" about cheap batteries. But now on his recommended products page on Amazon he has Li-Time batteries listed that are less than $300 for a 100ah. I watched the Wil Power tear downs and there was no real difference between the Li-Time and the Power Quee, or most of the other "cheap" batteries really.

But here is the thing I have seen over the years of reading these "lithium" threads. The people who buy the $800-1000 batteries also buy all the toys that go along with the science experiment of putting the batteries on the boat. They justify this as needing to be done in order to protect those expensive batteries for 15-20 years. Meanwhile to a cruiser than that has lived with regular battery replacement because we typically abuse our batteries, paying $300 for a 100ah battery that "only" lives 5 years seems pretty cheap.

Just why does a boat that only is off shore power weekends and maybe 1 to 2 week "cruises" need expensive batteries anyway?

The $800 LFP 100ah battery is pretty much 2+ years out of date now except to people who truly can talk themselves into believing that somehow they are worth 2.5 times more price and that they NEED that. They had a market place for a while compared to DIY builds, butthe time is over.
 
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From what I have seen, The Power Queen has two set backs. No low temp cut off, but if your down south thats not a concern.

One test I saw, on on the 100A battery was the high current cut off of the BMS. Specs show 150A, but the battery went to 250A for 30 seconds before shutting down. In the test, the wire got very hot. So, I hope your fuses blows before the wires heats up too much. Not a big deal as long as the fuses are sizes right to each battery and the cables are over sized.

As to "Just why does a boat that only is off shore power weekends and maybe 1 to 2 week "cruises" need expensive batteries anyway?" First off, we don't want problems when we go away and some do more boating then that. Secondly, I don't want to go though the work of every 3 years vs 6 to8 years in replacing batteries.
 
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Not my intention to be the Power Queen guy. I needed batteries fast and they checked out. I don't even think we're what I intended to get and got confused. But ..

1 - like lots of the other affordable suppliers you can get ones with low temp. It doesn't apply to me so I don't care. You can even get them with Bluetooth.

2- my 100ah batteries are rated for 100amps continuous and 280 amps for 5 seconds. I have 4 in parallel. So that is 400amps continuous or 1120 amps for 5 sec. Either way that has to go through a 300 amp fuse and is waaaay more than anything in my boat draws except for a short. So I don't even understand your point.

3- I have been a full time cruiser for over 7 years. I have gone more than a year without plugging in. I may 7nderstand how it works.

Get whatever batteries you want. No need to spin a story of why you want the expensive ones.
 
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" You should have read before I edited and thought I corrected stuff"


Ha Ha! So true. Editing seems to be a dying art. Let's blame it on aut9 correc6!
 
Another vote for LiTime. I've two 200 Amp 12v. Steady output, good charge. Recommend to me NY another old friend with a lot of boating experience.
 
I bought these batteries because they can be discharged much lower than lead acid, thus giving me more available am hours for overnight anchoring. If you use your boat as a dock-sitter, or for short trips to and from a dock, any battery will do.
 
If I am shopping for a budget Lifepo4 battery what features should I be looking for?
Is it better to get one larger amp hr. battery or get multiple smaller ones?
 
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