Will the Titanic claim a few more?
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Interesting comments.
What is it about this thread that is now making you two uncomfortable? The comment about “brown dudes” maybe?
And is it usual for a thread to be “put to bed” on the whims of just 3% of the contributors?
Hippocampus
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SAR throughout the world seems to have a different set of difficulties when confronted with human trafficking. Think of the recent Italian navy’s experience. How do you rescue folks who don’t want to be rescued? How do you protect yourself and not place unarmed passengers at risk when the traffickers are armed and hostile? How do you deal with overloaded unstable vessels when language barriers and human emotion cause further risks of instability? How do you deploy assets when there maybe be 10 or 100+ to rescue? If you look at the Med several different countries SAR units have had their troubles. Not just Italy.
We have very long land borders so trafficking is predominantly by land not sea.
We have very long land borders so trafficking is predominantly by land not sea.
psneeld
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There was a recent migrant tragedy in Italian waters..... migrant issues and human trafficking are usually 2 different LEO situations...not always but for the most part migrants are not the same as illegal smuggling activity, thus different threat levels.
SteveK
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This thread and most others once they diverge from the thread title should be split out into a new thread with a new title. The original thread can stay for new related information.
The question has been answered, YES, more lives were claimed.
The comparison of the other tragedy can be debated in a new thread meant for that purpose.
AlaskaProf
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AlaskaProf
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This week's New Yorker does a good job of explaining this tragedy. A well-sourced story of murderous incompetence, hubris and willful avoidance of the law, with many knowledgeable people trying repeatedly to head off the inevitable.
Nick14
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“Murderous incompetence, hubris, and willful avoidance of the law”?
Sounds like the name of a venture capital or private equity firm.
AlaskaProf
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Or the mission statement.
Benthic2
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I wonder if his passengers were aware of all those warnings
Action
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The article states they sign a disclosure that death was an option.
AlaskaProf
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He had no passengers, carriage of passengers for hire would have been illegal, so he had a crew of "mission specialists," an absurd and patently illegal evasion.
The Frenchman, Nargeolet, who had a lot of relevant experience had received very specific warnings from experienced colleagues and responded, in effect: there are worse ways to die. One wonders if the 19-year-old shared his fatalism.
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Action
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^^^^+1
psneeld
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A good salesman can sell almost any BS.
Trouble is, when designers stand by their work and ride it to the depths, and it has succeeded in the past, selling BS is all that much easier against many outside opinions of severe danger.
One reason I never flew commercially after the USCG, is I had a hard time trusting organizations where I didn't get to know the crew personally and where the mechanics didn't necessarily fly the same aircraft I was. In the USCG I could trust the guys in my crew with my life...they certainly trusted me to bring them home.
So trusting others becomes a tricky issue... it's when outsiders stress that what you are doing is unsafe but the inner circle can sell you that it's not.
Trouble is, when designers stand by their work and ride it to the depths, and it has succeeded in the past, selling BS is all that much easier against many outside opinions of severe danger.
One reason I never flew commercially after the USCG, is I had a hard time trusting organizations where I didn't get to know the crew personally and where the mechanics didn't necessarily fly the same aircraft I was. In the USCG I could trust the guys in my crew with my life...they certainly trusted me to bring them home.
So trusting others becomes a tricky issue... it's when outsiders stress that what you are doing is unsafe but the inner circle can sell you that it's not.
That’s a stupid cliche. I’m what way was it romantic or chivalrous or respectable to be crushed to death in 1/20th of a second - it likely happened so fast that the crew didn’t even know they died, so they couldn’t have even “enjoyed” the moment
rslifkin
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I think that's the idea behind it. It's an attempt to do something cool, and if it fails and kills you, it's likely to be so fast you won't feel a thing.
Hippocampus
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One reason I never flew commercially after the USCG, is I had a hard time trusting organizations where I didn't get to know the crew personally and where the mechanics didn't necessarily fly the same aircraft I was.
Find this somewhat limiting and not logical. In terms of death per 100k I think it goes
Cars/personal trucks
Trains
Commercial carrier airplanes.
Now a days unless you can read codes and play with electronics some of the work on your car/truck is likely done by others. Although freight trains have made the news with fair regularity recently passenger deaths remain infrequent as does commercial airline passenger deaths.
Unfortunately in so many aspects of our life (medicine, clean water, food etc.) we are dependent upon others for our safety. Sure have no issue with trust but verify. Yes there are multiple occasions they let us down. Nor have issue with vetting providers and choosing accordingly. But do have issue with people making decisions on factors other actual statistical risk. Same occurred within Covid. Risk was 4 in a million. If your risk of death was greater than 4 in a million especially if it was multiples of that risk benefit justified doing it. My risk of death is greater doing my ablutions in a shower or making love with my wife than flying a commercial carrier . Maybe I’ll add grab rails and such but with still try to stay clean and enjoy my true love. When i worry about planes augering in I think the pilot is in front and he/she knows they will hit first.
twistedtree
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Actually the full quote was about dying instantly being a good way to go. That part I think most would agree in.
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SONUS??? Not to be nit picky, but I think you are referring to SOSUS?
Sound Surveillance System (SOSUS) was the original name for a submarine detection system based on passive sonar developed by the United States Navy
twistedtree
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I expect all the victims were financially well healed, with the possible exception of the Frenchman (sorry, forgot his name), so likely no life insurance at play with net worth greatly exceeding any possible policy value.
Action
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Most of the "mission specialists" had wealth beyond what most of us will ever know.
If they had a life policy, the payment (or non-payment) of a benefit isn't likely to impact the beneficiaries much. The "donation" for each mission specialist was discretionary money. They had that to play with.
The bigger issue may be taxes when the wealth is transferred if the wealth is not held by an entity.
Action
If they had a life policy, the payment (or non-payment) of a benefit isn't likely to impact the beneficiaries much. The "donation" for each mission specialist was discretionary money. They had that to play with.
The bigger issue may be taxes when the wealth is transferred if the wealth is not held by an entity.
Action
Hippocampus
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Heard it said surgeons and tort lawyers make the worst private plane pilots. Possibly due to needing to have the belief their skill set is infallible. Leads to the belief they are infallible in other settings in some. So these 1% ers may have the same attitude. Obvious intelligent successful people who decided risk benefit justified engaging in this activity. Don’t think it’s comparable to a salesman selling a lousy product. Rather think the hubris of the principal of the company acted in synchrony with the hubris of the other occupants. Same result but different dynamic. Still tragic and condolences to all victims including the captain.
Shouldn't that be typo? Type O is a blood type.
Yes, the thread has reached that point.
:lol: Yes, it has reached that point.
psneeld
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If I wasn't clear, I meant as a pilot not a passenger.
You logic isn't mine and mine not yours...we see it on so many posts....
Lets just face it...you and I disagree on so much...I will just leave it at that.
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