Will You Go Broke On A Boat? - 1999 Viking 60 SportYatch

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
E

El Dorado

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2024
Messages
16
Location
Fajardo, Puerto Rico
Good evening gentlemen, before I send my significant other and the little one into financial peril, I was hoping for some feedback if anyone here know more about this model of motor yatch and possible expenses going with it on points 1, 2, 3 and anything else.

I understand regular maintenance of zinc replacements, oil changes, hydraulic fluid top off, gel coat touch up, coolant changes, bottom paint, needing to hire a marine surveyor. So far, hvac systems and electrical have been updated and replaced.

(1) Considering that there are three of us, I found this boat to be of compelling size, but the age is kind of old. I heard the twin Man 2848LE403 do require a fair bit of maintenance and as the boat currently sits, it's approaching the maintenance needed at 4,000 hours. That appears to be a hefty chunk to pay for that.

(2) Another consideration is the fuel tank, that is made of aluminum and is recommended to be replaced at the 20 year mark.
I understand regular maintenance of zinc replacements, oil changes, hydraulic fluid top off, gel coat touch up, coolant changes, bottom paint, needing to hire a marine surveyor.

(3) Considerations on transmission issues?

Thank you to anyone who went through this.
 

Attachments

  • 8142805_20211213125607399_1_XLARGE.pdf
    440 KB · Views: 105
That question needs more supporting background. All boats come with expenses. Some are known and some are unknown. Costs vary by location and whether you DIY or hire it all out.

Will it bankrupt you? What are you budgeting for 1) purchase price 2) deferred or due repairs 3)updates/improvements you want to do 4) total monthly recurring costs 5) services due at certain intervals 6) All other/unknown costs

Work up your budget and share it along with more details (location, starting condition of boat, how hard was it run, has it had regular ongoing maintenance, etc)

The others might at least be able to provide a sanity check.

Without knowing anything I suspect year 1 will be $50k+ in non recurring costs plus all of the normal operating cost. And I think this might be conservative.
Example is the fuel tank. Maybe another forum member might have direct experience with that model but in some cases you have to pull an engine or cut a hole in the hull. Bug $$ and not a DIY task.



Ken
 
Very difficult to be helpful without knowing what the boat will cost, age or its condition. It`s a seriously big boat (for 3?). Maintenance/dockage/insurance all rise proportionally to cost, size, etc. Is it insurable with your level of experience/qualification. On one view of your post we`d need to pry into your financial position. Is there a Survey to share?
I believe, purely anecdotally, the Viking is highly regarded for quality and performance. And it looks like you are homing in on some of the right maintenance issues. I believe MANs require specialist servicing, a MAN mechanical outfit did the mechanical survey on a boat(with Cummins) I later rejected(not because of mechanicals) and he seemed highly regarded, indeed held in awe, by the broker.
 
Your title says 1999 Viking 60’ sport yacht . Your picture is a Viking Ocean 54 designed in the 1980’s

Two very different sized boats designed for two different purposes with two very different maintenance costs.

What engines? What systems? Is it stabilized?
 
El Dorado said:
...needing to hire a marine surveyor...

(1) Considering that there are three of us, I found this boat to be of compelling size, but the age is kind of old. I heard the twin Man 2848LE403 do require a fair bit of maintenance and as the boat currently sits, it's approaching the maintenance needed at 4,000 hours. That appears to be a hefty chunk to pay for that.
Click to expand...

From memory, I think those engines are V-8, mechanical, 800-hp each... somewhere around 14.6L, maybe...

Near as I can tell from reading and from our own experience, MAN engines don't actually need any more maintenance than any other reputable engines (CAT, MTU, etc.) of the same approximate size and type.

But then too, some of the periodic maintenance -- exchanger flush, etc. -- gets more expensive than something like say a smaller 8.3L/450 Cummins because the parts are bigger, heavier, take more grunt to remove, service, and replace. And V engines, any brand, often mean two each of some things (risers, turbos, etc.).

So in addition to a marine surveyor, you'll want a MAN-certified mechanical surveyor.

V-8 engines in a narrow engine room can be sort of a pain to get around. Can't see specs on your target boat, but if the beam isn't at least 16' or so you'll need to squirm a bit to traverse the engine room. Even 16' needs a bit of a dance...

-Chris
 
This site is seriously helpful, thank you for being open to hearing out the longer form of this vision and the responses so far.

It’s a 1999 Viking 60 asking $275k, but this can be negotiated.

Yes, I’ve found myself settled in the Caribbean with my fiancée and her daughter. We are either moving from San Juan this year to Fajardo, PR or Palmas Del Mar, PR. Instead of sitting at the marina and saving up still I’m grey in the face for a Selene. We figured, what if we just decided to start on a used boat now? From my understanding between the two marinas, at least someone should have experience on the MAN engines.

(1) We agreed that we want to try the live aboard life and this would be the easiest introduction to the water. Given that these have depreciated quite a bit, but still have blue water sea worthiness. The boat is currently asking close to $275k and there’s been little interest on it.

Here’s the scary, but workable part. As people are well aware nowadays, most families don’t have $100k saved up in cash. Neither do we, so this was going to be approached from a rent to own and then to financing, until a down payment could be achieved. Which wouldn’t make the monthly payments too terrible (looking to be under $3,000 if interest rates come down).

(2) I need to get a recent survey on it and check injectors, intercooler & heat exchanger cleaned, check saloon windows for leakage, check torsional couplings. *IT DOESNT have a stabilizer system that would be upwards of $100k if needed.

(3) Work that we’d like to do, minimal since it would be a starting liveaboard. I know I need starlink and some nominal purchases, but it really has most of everything on it currently. Unless it’s that stabilizer….

(4) I expected the total recurring monthly costs with the financing of the boat in this equation to be less than $4,000. That would also include the monthly slip fee. I expect to have $1k to $2k a month for maintenance expenses.

(5) I think it needs the MAN 2k/2yr maintenance within a year. That would likely be $20k it looks like. From the broker I can check the number of owners and maintenance records, but it looked cleaner than some comparisons.

The last point you made is critical. I cannot have this be a MANGRANADE and cost $50k in the first year. I don’t have that kind of cash saved up, but I could save $2k a month if we were in the boat. That could help with a specialized MAN cert-mechanic, but I would need it not to blow up for a year.

Insurability, I would have to work through that. If it’s possible to have my fiancées father on the documentation if he takes trips with us to help us learn the ropes. He is currently a captain with insurance on his 28ft. I believe that could at least be an avenue to help.
 
tiltrider1 said:
Your title says 1999 Viking 60’ sport yacht . Your picture is a Viking Ocean 54 designed in the 1980’s

Two very different sized boats designed for two different purposes with two very different maintenance costs.

What engines? What systems? Is it stabilized?
Click to expand...
MAN
Engine Model2840LE403
Fuel TypeDiesel
Power1050 hp
Engine usage (hours)2800
 
Greetings,
Mr. E. Welcome aboard, if I've missed you. I say the following with the greatest of respect and NO insult intended:

Sounds to me like you're going to be very thinly stretched in the finance department. It would only take ONE blown motor to end your dreams. ONE major unforeseen expense would see your dream AND your investment gone. You would be saddled with a $200K+ debt and own a broken boat worth much, much less that what you have invested or owe on it.

I would suggest IF you really want to try the live aboard lifestyle, look at smaller, well maintained vessels. They ARE out there. You may have to import from the US but a better long term risk IMO.
 
My 2 cents -
My wife and I both work and we make a decent living. I wanted a boat so bad I could taste it so I jumped from a 22 foot bowrider to a 2004 35 foot boat that has gone from FL to Cape Cod and next year we are looking at a 3,300 mile trip called the Downeast Loop.
In the almost 3 years I have owned the boat I have poured money into the boat to get it ready. I don't mean to sound harsh but you don't know what you don't know and you will not know until you jump in. But the fact that you are saying you do not have additional funding for the boat is a HUGE RED FLAG. Your boat will not care - when it breaks you need the extra money to fix it or other things will break on top. What I mean is if you let a boat sit it is in a constant state of deterioration and once you fix something it has a life span and will continue to breakdown. A boat is not meant to park and not run it for months at a time - so fuel and maintenance are required. Man engines are German made - very much like a Swiss watch and not a Toyota which you can ignore and it keeps running. You must keep them in top shape or they will require a huge amount of money to fix.
My advice is to keep dreaming - rent a boat every year or two years for a cruise to ensure this is your dream. You will find yourself in the poor house if you do not have the means to maintain and improve your boat.
Good Luck!
 
Just my opinion, if you can’t afford the down payment, you can’t afford the boat. Maintenance and moorage will run you $3,000 a month. With boats you either pay now with cash or you pay later when you try to sell. Either way you will be paying. The way you are approaching this you will be paying with your future.
 
I find this boat to actually be well priced and appears to be well maintained. It is a Bill Garden design, originally built as an Ocean 54 which is 60’ if you measure the bow sprit and swim platform.

However those High Performance diesel engines come with a less than stellar reputation. They absolutely need to be maintained on schedule. An engine overhaul probably runs in the $250,000 range.
 
Simple. Don't do it. Too much boat, too complex, too much risk.
Join Freedom boat club or similar and take the family out often. Stay in hotels or AirBNB.
 
I agree, keep looking, more boats will be available with time. Maybe a bit smaller, perhaps with less exotic engines and most of all affordable.
 
I'm mechanically knowledgeable, have experience on older large-ish boats and a
decent cash reserve and I would not take that boat on unless it was $75k less or even
cheaper. 25 years is a long time for a boat in the tropics. And, a 50 ft-er is a big boat.
A 60 ft-er is very big. 1000 Hp diesels are not good for low-budget boating, either!

In the plus column, if the photos are recent, it looks in good condition.
I like the MAN's, but I'd prefer one quarter the HP with stabilization.
 
Last edited:
We are talking about a boat that can do 22 kts if you can afford the 125 gallons per hour. Granted, you can slow down to 9kts and it’s probably a 1 gallon per nautical mile boat. I am assuming that you will still be in the MAN’s allowable operating window. Big diesels like these have minimum temperature and RPM requirements which some times doesn’t allow for economical running.
 
In my opinion, you need a pretty decent cash cushion to be into boats. In my small $100,000 31 footer, I approach every trip with the thought that this could be a $10,000 day. So far I have been lucky and have not had one with that many digits yet. I have many buddy boaters who have exceeded that number. So it will not shock me if it happens. I have had small repairs or upgrades that start out small and snowball. The last one this spring was planned at about $1200 and ended at $6,000.

Good luck in your decision.
 
Way too tight financially on a boat that could come with big expenses. Inexperience is a factor too. Doubt the fiancees father`s experience helps insurability. As explorers pouring over the margins of maps, in the days when the earth was thought to be flat, were prone to observe "There be dragons".
 
As to the insurance, insuring in the father’s name could result in claim denial if it is found to be your boat. Also jumping from 28 to 60 feet won’t fly with most insurance companies.
 
El Dorado said:
It’s a 1999 Viking 60 asking $275k, but this can be negotiated.
https://www.boats.com/power-boats/1999-viking-60-9208145/

From my understanding between the two marinas, at least someone should have experience on the MAN engines.

(5) I think it needs the MAN 2k/2yr maintenance within a year. That would likely be $20k it looks like. From the broker I can check the number of owners and maintenance records, but it looked cleaner than some comparisons.

The last point you made is critical. I cannot have this be a MANGRANADE and cost $50k in the first year. I don’t have that kind of cash saved up, but I could save $2k a month if we were in the boat. That could help with a specialized MAN cert-mechanic, but I would need it not to blow up for a year.
Click to expand...

OK, not 2848; instead 2840LE403. V-10 engines, larger than ours. Not familiar with those, but have heard they're the one's sometimes referred to MAN-grenades. You might do some research on boatdiesel.com, if you haven't already.

Yes, as I said earlier, major MAN service is expensive... even though not really unlike other brand engines of the same size/power... but you'd want to do everything they need right up front... and it sounds like your finances won't really allow that.

MAN guys aren't your basic marina mechanics. Instead, they'll have a shop somewhere that may or may not be near a marina... and drive to your boat for service. (Ours can fly to our boat, and has.) You probably need to locate your MAN guy options before you think much more about this. Your MAN guy will be the one who does your pre-purchase survey (if you proceed), who then also does all the immediate remedial work, and who eventually does the routine but heavy lift stuff (i.e., beyond simple oil changes and so forth).

Our initial MAN service, right after we bought this boat, was ~$54K... and about half of that was just bringing the engines back into MAN's recommended service schedule. The rest was about correcting POs "deferred maintenance". IOW, this wasn't about fixing damaged grenades. Much of that was negotiated out of our original purchase price.

I don't know that market; maybe useful to know what the 2000 Alaska boat really sold for. Looks like a nice, spacious boat, though. From your description, your finances sound a bit thin... hence my suggestion about getting the MAN info sorted out before you take a flying leap. Your MAN guy (once you find him) may well be the PO's MAN guy, so may be able to advise before you do much else. And may be able to give you a reasonably accurate idea of what initial update service will cost... and then after pre-purchase survey (if you proceed) would be able to give you a good idea of what it'll take to fix everything discovered during that.

-Chris
 
Last edited:
ranger58sb said:
OK, not 2848; instead 2840LE403. V-10 engines, larger than ours. Not familiar with those, but have heard they're the one's sometimes referred to MAN-grenades. You might do some research on boatdiesel.com, if you haven't already.

Yes, as I said earlier, major MAN service is expensive... not unlike other brand engines of the same size/power... but you'd want to do everything they need right up front... and it sounds like your finances won't really allow that.

MAN guys aren't your basic marina mechanics. Instead, they'll have a shop somewhere that may or may not be near a marina... and drive to your boat for service. (Ours can fly to our boat, and has.) You probably need to locate your MAN guy options before you think much more about this. Your MAN guy will be the one who does your pre-purchase survey (if you proceed), who then also does all the immediate remedial work, and who eventually does the routine but heavy lift stuff (i.e., beyond simple oil changes and so forth).

Our initial MAN service, right after we bought this boat, was ~$54K... and about half of that was just bringing the engines back into MAN's recommended service schedule. The rest was about correcting POs "deferred maintenance". IOW, this wasn't abut fixing damaged grenades. Much of that was negotiated out of our original purchase price.

I don't know that market; maybe useful to know what the 2000 Alaska boat really sold for. Looks like a nice, spacious boat, though. From your description, your finances sound a bit thin... hence my suggestion about getting the MAN info sorted out before you take a flying leap. Your MAN guy (once you find him) may well be the PO's MAN guy, so may be able to advise before you do much else. And may be able to give you a reasonably accurate idea of what initial update service will cost... and then after pre-purchase survey (if you proceed) would be able to give you a good idea of what it'll take to fix everything discovered during that.

-Chris
Click to expand...

All that for the pleasure of a $400-$500/hour burn rate at cruise!

Kidding aside, excellent information. Would certainly sober me up......

Peter
 
Last edited:
El Dorado said:
I cannot have this be a MANGRANADE and cost $50k in the first year. I don’t have that kind of cash saved up, but I could save $2k a month if we were in the boat. That could help with a specialized MAN cert-mechanic, but I would need it not to blow up for a year.
Click to expand...
Welcome aboard the TF, El Dorado. The underlined / bold-texted clause above was where my caution light changed to solid red. You simply cannot hope or make plans assuming that a critical system on your boat won't "blow up." I totally get your passion to get yourself and your family into a nice boat, but knowing you are one engine breakdown away from losing that boat would take all the joy out of the experience. If you do find yourself faced with an unaffordable repair, imagine the misery that would follow. Please, please find another remedy for your present case of boat fever.
 
To the OP, try finding a boat with well maintained Ford Lehman 120HP engines. Very simple to maintain and easy to repair. If you have to go fast and don't have an unlimited budget you should get a trailerable boat and drive.
 
Blissboat said:
Welcome aboard the TF, El Dorado. The underlined / bold-texted clause above was where my caution light changed to solid red. You simply cannot hope or make plans assuming that a critical system on your boat won't "blow up." I totally get your passion to get yourself and your family into a nice boat, but knowing you are one engine breakdown away from losing that boat would take all the joy out of the experience. If you do find yourself faced with an unaffordable repair, imagine the misery that would follow. Please, please find another remedy for your present case of boat fever.
Click to expand...

Was around 1990 that my girlfriend and I bought a Unilfite 42 with 555s to liveaboard in San Francisco. Water pump shaft broke and one of the engines over-heated. A friend/mechanic did the repairs (I forget all that was done) so cost was low, but still $8k by the time it was done. I was making less than $40k at the time so $8k was a helluva hit. Took a lot of the fun out of boating.

I understand the allure of a boat that looks more luxurious than an apartment. And I understand how it can look affordable. It is.....until it isn't.

Careful for what you wish.......

Peter
 
It is so easy for an inexperienced individual to see so much boat for what on the surface appears to be a reasonable price.

No one ever thinks to ask what would this boat cost new and why such a big depreciation difference.

Well this boat would cost close to $2,000,000 if bought new today. Why is it now worth so little? Well, anyone who can afford the maintenance on a boat like this can afford a new $2,000,000 boat and they are not interested in an old boat.

Finally we get down to who is a buyer for this boat. A very rare rich guy who is super cheap and prides himself on not spending money. A very rare talented DiY guy who knows all about boats and MAN diesels. An all so common unsuspecting average guy who has no idea what boat ownership costs but thinks the down payment is the hard part. Buying a boat is never the hard part. Maintaining the boat has always been the hard part.
 
I don’t have as much experience as most here, so in my opinion for that price point I’d opt for a decent Defever RPH, Cheoy Lee or a Hatteras LRC. Not as big, not as luxurious but more reasonable.
 
El Dorado,

There are some members of Yacht Forums that have significant MAN experience, including details. Might be worth a stop over there for a search.

I think someone else mentioned boatdiesel.com. That is worth the price of admission as you can search and monitor forums by engine make/model.

Buena Suerte
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

PhilPB
FOR SALE: 1983 Mainship 34' MKlll - $32,000 - Palm Beach County, Fl
Replies
20
Views
2K
PhilPB
PhilPB
B
34' Pilot Mainship 2002 twin 4LHA STP 240hp 140000.00
Replies
0
Views
2K
BB-marine
B
N
Another Engine Smoke Question
Replies
28
Views
4K
SteveK
SteveK
LeoKa
Hydraulic backup on a Perkins generator?
2
Replies
38
Views
4K
LeoKa
LeoKa
M
Buying boat with Volvo TMD40A's
Replies
13
Views
3K
Bob M
B

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom