Windlass not freewheeling

[firstbase]

I see the Sea Wolf listed as up/down or just up but I guess that is irrelevant as I don't know what internal changes are made for each. Why do I smell a $3500 purchase coming up???

 

[Tator]

I've been happy with my Seawolf and prefer to freewheel it when going down. I usually anchor in 50'-90' of water with 5/16 chain. I find it easy to control the clutch speed using the handle that fits on the end of the shaft. I've found the parts person in Scotland very helpful in answering any questions. He could probably answer any questions by email that you might have in converting to power down.

Tator

 

[C lectric]

I see the Sea Wolf listed as up/down or just up but I guess that is irrelevant as I don't know what internal changes are made for each. Why do I smell a $3500 purchase coming up???

It's been a lot of years since I had one but they can be power up and down. As said I had one and I used it that way.

Many are not wired for it but that does not mean the windlass itself is not capable of both operations.

Take a look at the blowup in the manual. It is simply a series of spur gears and they don't care.
The electrical leads , both the positive and the negative, need to be fed by relays wired so both motor leads are switched. That way the motor will reverse.

Do as suggested and look up that parts guy as Tator suggests.

But even so an electrician should be able to come up with something. Unfortunately my book with the wiring is long gone.

 

[firstbase]

Thanks. So adding the down power does not necessarily require an additional solenoid?

 

[McGillicuddy]

Yes, it needs a second solenoid.

 

[McGillicuddy]

This is the switch box for the windlass as set up for two way operation.

 

[psneeld]

or just one of these or a varient for your particular windlass.... doesnt work with all setups, but worked great with my windlass....made wiring simple and more water resistant than the old solenoid setup.

 

[McGillicuddy]

That’s certainly a lot cleaner.

 

[C lectric]

or just one of these or a varient for your particular windlass.... doesnt work with all setups, but worked great with my windlass....made wiring simple and more water resistant than the old solenoid setup.

NO

That will not work. That control relay set is fine for a three wire motor which is typical of the Lofrans Tigres, The Cayman, the Muirs and so on.

On my old Seawolf there were 4 relays. Both the positives and the negatives have to be reversed on the Seawolf meaning two relays on each of the + & - conductors.
I wish I had kept my old wiring dgm. but I didn;t. Someone smarter than I gave me the wiring schematic.

 

[sunchaser]

NO

That will not work. That control relay set is fine for a three wire motor which is typical of the Lofrans Tigres, The Cayman, the Muirs and so on.

On my old Seawolf there were 4 relays. Both the positives and the negatives have to be reversed on the Seawolf meaning two relays on each of the + & - conductors.
I wish I had kept my old wiring dgm. but I didn;t. Someone smarter than I gave me the wiring schematic.

This comment and others on this thread got me to thinking that not only is windlass mechanical PM a good thing, but so is electrical PM. I'm going to changeout the solenoid although it is doing fine but 15 years old.

 

[psneeld]

NO

That will not work. That control relay set is fine for a three wire motor which is typical of the Lofrans Tigres, The Cayman, the Muirs and so on.

On my old Seawolf there were 4 relays. Both the positives and the negatives have to be reversed on the Seawolf meaning two relays on each of the + & - conductors.
I wish I had kept my old wiring dgm. but I didn;t. Someone smarter than I gave me the wiring schematic.

I did say "or a variant"...

When I bought mine I thought there were several types.

My windlass was only a 2 wire and the model I bought was simple to install and has been working fine through several hundred anchorings.

Control Boxes & Solenoids Detail - Watertight Control Box, 12V

 

[C lectric]

Yes, you did. I missed the point.
swat the back of my hand.

 

[FlyWright]

Yes, you did. I missed the point.
swat the back of my hand.

 

[firstbase]

Got out to the boat today and worked on the windlass to see what I could see. Got the clutch off along with the clutch spacer nut and drum. Wasn't comfortable taking it all apart so thought that spraying some corrosion buster on the shaft where I could, both sides of the gypsy as well as between case and the clutch. Let it set for a while and then sort of cleaned it up. Then sprayed liberal amount of lubricant on everything. Put it all back together and exercised it some and it began to freewheel ok. Let the anchor drop, good to go!!!

Wrong.

Now the gypsy will not turn to pull the anchor UP. Opposite problem. Drum and shaft spin but shift is turning inside gypsy and not taking it with it. No retrieving anchor. Took apart, cleaned, nothing, same result. I assume that I used lubricant and it got into places where it doesn't belong and now they are slipping instead of grabbing?

Can't say that I have been at anchor in my own slip. Feels very safe.

 

[Tator]

Assuming that the clutch plates are turning but not the gipsy, the problem is probably that, for some reason, not enough pressure is being exerted on the clutch plates by the screwing on of the wheel. I also assume that you are using a lever on the wheel so to be able to tighten it enough. If so, you might have either not enough spacers or the spacers on the wrong place on the shaft. Consult a parts diagram for proper placement. I doubt if the lubricant was the cause. I lightly coat the surface of my clutch plates with grease.

If the shaft turns but the clutch plates and gipsy don't, The only thing I can think of that would cause that is a missing or sheared (hard to believe) shaft key.

Tator

 

[firstbase]

Thanks Tator. Yes, using a lever to get it good and tight. The only spacer involved with what I did today is the "spacer nut" as they call it on the parts diagram which is placed on the shaft between the case and the drum. I took it and of course the drum off. Key looked fine but didn't take the shaft all the way out to check it completely. I did clean off the spacer by rubbing it on some 220 wet and dry to get both sides clean/smooth surface. There was a very small indent/groove left by the clutch over the years but not enough to decrease its width by any real amount. Did nothing besides that and the corrosion buster and spray lube. I think tomorrow I will give pulling the gypsy off a try. I will add that when I first cleaned it all was well, free wheeled ok and retrieved the anchor too. Was so happy it worked I cleaned and lubed again. That's when it stopped retrieving.

 

[dhays]

Dumb question, but you didn’t get lube on the clutch plates themselves did you?

 

[firstbase]

I didn't pull everything apart and spray directly. I moved the keyed shaft back and forth a couple of inches, sprayed shaft where it entered from the outside and where it entered/exited the gypsy.

I really shouldn't be allowed to own a trawler. There should probably be a law.

 

[firstbase]

In case another newb has a similar issue and finds this later on down the road I will relate how I fixed this...

Got the nerve to take the windlass apart today. Useless somewhat until fixed so whats the worst that can happen? Not horribly complicated as I imagined. Someone was looking down from above as he/she/it saved me three times on close calls with pieces going overboard. Cleaned everything up, wiped away excess spray lube and wet/dry papered some gunk off the spacers and cones. I've been emailing the guy who has the spare parts in England, "SL Spares". Nice gentleman who told me that everything on the shaft, besides the main gear, should slide easily. He thought it was bad bearings. Checked the bearings and they seemed fine. Not seized, rolled nicely. The only thing I had a problem with sliding nicely was the spacer that goes between the drum and the main body. Had issues every time I tried to take the drum off. Thought about what he said and looked closer at this spacer. The hole where the shaft slides through was gunked up pretty good. Some 220 wet/dry to clean it up, now slides nicely. I reassembled and voila, working like it should on both freewheel and retrieving. I think what was happening is when I used the clutch to tighten the cones that spacer was jamming on the shaft due to the corrosion/gunk and preventing them from tightening on the gypsy. Anyway, problem solved and a nice little education on my windlass.

 

[Tator]

Great!!

 

[Xsbank]

The absolute hardest part of fixing this stuff is starting. Grab that wrench, screwdriver whatever and just go for it. There isn't too much that is beyond the average owner - getting the gumption up to take something apart is the hardest part. Well done!

 

[firstbase]

Seems the original problem with no freewheeling was due to it jamming and not letting loose. Once I got the spacer off it would freewheel but then not tighten up. Anyway, fixed.

I am wondering, given that this is an old out of production windlass and there appears to be one source of spare parts, what spares should I buy while they are still offered? Everything appeared in good shape to my uneducated eye. No uneven wear on cones, bearing spinning nicely, etc. I guess a set of bearings and 2 cones wouldn't hurt. They seem to be the items that would go at some point? I did get the link counter moving and showing the 1' increment change as it went out and came back in but it won't click over to the next unit of 10. Something tells me that link counters are the first thing to go on a windlass...?

 

[fsgjdsmith]

I have a Simpson Lawrence Seawolf with basically the same problem. However, I have power to the windlass, but the Clutch Nut will NOT turn in either direction, like it is froze? The drum and clutch will both turn with the electric foot switch, but the Gipsy is just free wheeling either direction? What could cause the Clutch Nut to freeze like that? All of the gears on port side, look like new and greased well. But I cant take the shaft out without getting the Clutch Nut turning??? What to do?????

 

[fsgjdsmith]

Was your Clutch Nut frozen?

With your problem, was the Clutch Nut on the Starboard end of the shaft frozen? My Clutch Nut will not turn either way. I have Elect power, but when i push on the foot button, the drum and clutch will turn, but the gipsy just free turns in both direction? It is like the Clutch Nut is froze in the position that releases the Gipsy to lower the anchor???? My question is how to free up the Clutch Nut?

In case another newb has a similar issue and finds this later on down the road I will relate how I fixed this...

Got the nerve to take the windlass apart today. Useless somewhat until fixed so whats the worst that can happen? Not horribly complicated as I imagined. Someone was looking down from above as he/she/it saved me three times on close calls with pieces going overboard. Cleaned everything up, wiped away excess spray lube and wet/dry papered some gunk off the spacers and cones. I've been emailing the guy who has the spare parts in England, "SL Spares". Nice gentleman who told me that everything on the shaft, besides the main gear, should slide easily. He thought it was bad bearings. Checked the bearings and they seemed fine. Not seized, rolled nicely. The only thing I had a problem with sliding nicely was the spacer that goes between the drum and the main body. Had issues every time I tried to take the drum off. Thought about what he said and looked closer at this spacer. The hole where the shaft slides through was gunked up pretty good. Some 220 wet/dry to clean it up, now slides nicely. I reassembled and voila, working like it should on both freewheel and retrieving. I think what was happening is when I used the clutch to tighten the cones that spacer was jamming on the shaft due to the corrosion/gunk and preventing them from tightening on the gypsy. Anyway, problem solved and a nice little education on my windlass.

 

[Tator]

Are using the long lever to turn the clutch handle?

Tator

 

[fsgjdsmith]

Anchor Clutch Nut frozen

No, i do not have an Emergency Handle. I've always used a long heavy screw driver. This anchor is in excellent looking condition, even the gears look new and well greased. It has worked flawlessly every weekend until last weekend, i turned the clutch nut clockwise, with no problem, dropped the anchor, tried to turn it back counterclockwise, to be ready to later raise the anchor, however it would not turn! It was like it just froze. That evening i used a prybar and tried turning it again but only got tighter. Still i can not turn the clutch nut. The clutch nut and drum turn counterclockwise when you step on the power foot button, but the gipsy just free wheels, turns by hand either way???

 

[firstbase]

Mine was jammed.. differently.. but still jammed. Now that I worked up the courage to take it apart ONCE to address ONE problem... I am an expert.

To free up the clutch spacer (not clutch) nut, on mine I used a rubber mallet and tapped it lightly on the drum end, gypsy, all around. Had a wood dowel that I stuck in the opening on the port side to tape that side of the shaft. Although I am an expert, clearly shown above, I don't know if that will help with your clutch nut jam. I do know that the Fount of Knowledge on these is John at SL Spare in Scotland. He can be contacted at sl.spares@btconnect.com. He shared a lot of knowledge and documents on the winch and it's maintenance/repair with me by email. If you PM me with your email I will gladly share them with you. If you still have the issue I would email John with the problem and I am sure he will respond promptly with exactly what to do. Will probably send you the same docs I have as well.

 

[fsgjdsmith]

Frozen Clutch Nut.....

I am going down this weekend with my Rubber Mallet, and small wooden wedge to tap on. Hey, I did notice in pics of almost ALL other Simpson Lawrence SEAWOLFs the shaft is flush with the outer part of the Clutch Nut? But mine the Shaft Nut is out and you can visibly see about an inch of threads showing on the Clutch Nut???? Which means my shaft is in toward the port side of windlass about an inch. So does that mean anything to anyone that knows these type windlasses? The Clutch Nut, being reverse thread, I would have to turn Clutch Nut Counter clockwise to bring the shaft back out flush with Clutch Nut. But there is no way to hold the shaft trying to turn it counter clockwise, because the drum, shaft and Gipsy will all turn with no way to hold it while turning the Clutch Nut. Because the Pawl isnt made to hold in that direction! I'm baffled if this Rubber Mallet doesnt do the trick???



Mine was jammed.. differently.. but still jammed. Now that I worked up the courage to take it apart ONCE to address ONE problem... I am an expert.

To free up the clutch spacer (not clutch) nut, on mine I used a rubber mallet and tapped it lightly on the drum end, gypsy, all around. Had a wood dowel that I stuck in the opening on the port side to tape that side of the shaft. Although I am an expert, clearly shown above, I don't know if that will help with your clutch nut jam. I do know that the Fount of Knowledge on these is John at SL Spare in Scotland. He can be contacted at sl.spares@btconnect.com. He shared a lot of knowledge and documents on the winch and it's maintenance/repair with me by email. If you PM me with your email I will gladly share them with you. If you still have the issue I would email John with the problem and I am sure he will respond promptly with exactly what to do. Will probably send you the same docs I have as well.[/QUOTE]