Working from a Boat

[JD Ray]

My career is one that can be done effectively 100% remote, which is good for me in these times of massive unemployment and stay-at-home orders. The downside is that it requires me to be online the entire workday.

As I shop for boats that look like they'd work for us, I look for a good desk area that is separate from the main salon/saloon area. Since I'm often out of bed and working before my wife is up, I would like it to be outside the owner's cabin also, but having boat-wide WiFi would mean that I could carry my laptop from one point to another, leaving the larger, secondary monitor at a desk.

I understand the challenges of providing Internet on a boat, and know that there are systems, specifically network routers, that can combine several options for Internet service (marina wifi, cellular, satellite, etc.) into one or more boat-based networks (guest, owner, crew). I'm fully capable of installing and maintaining one of these systems.

But, much like knowing how to start and engine and steer a boat doesn't make you a passagemaking captain, there are some blind spots for me with respect to working from a boat, because I've never tried.

• Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?
• Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?
• Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

The more robust I can find a work situation on board, the sooner I could spend weeks at a time on a boat. So, naturally, I'm putting effort into figuring it out.

 

[Lou_tribal]

My career is one that can be done effectively 100% remote, which is good for me in these times of massive unemployment and stay-at-home orders. The downside is that it requires me to be online the entire workday.

As I shop for boats that look like they'd work for us, I look for a good desk area that is separate from the main salon/saloon area. Since I'm often out of bed and working before my wife is up, I would like it to be outside the owner's cabin also, but having boat-wide WiFi would mean that I could carry my laptop from one point to another, leaving the larger, secondary monitor at a desk.

I understand the challenges of providing Internet on a boat, and know that there are systems, specifically network routers, that can combine several options for Internet service (marina wifi, cellular, satellite, etc.) into one or more boat-based networks (guest, owner, crew). I'm fully capable of installing and maintaining one of these systems.

But, much like knowing how to start and engine and steer a boat doesn't make you a passagemaking captain, there are some blind spots for me with respect to working from a boat, because I've never tried.

• Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?
• Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?
• Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

The more robust I can find a work situation on board, the sooner I could spend weeks at a time on a boat. So, naturally, I'm putting effort into figuring it out.

I will speak for my own experience.
1. Not realistic for me, even with two aboard I ould hardly focus on my work while underway.
2. I did many conf call aboard, not really an issue, background noise depends on where you are, mostly nature noise like birds. Anyway I never hide that I was working from my boat, not different from my house. If this is really an issue you can have your conf call from inside the boat and will got no noise.
3. Depends on where you are. I was mainly relying on my cell phone for internet access.

L

 

[Lollygag1]

I work from the boat frequently during the season. In answer to your question.
1- nope if I am on watch I am paying attention to my surroundings.
2- Truely depends where you are on the boat. If I am in the salon it is fine but overall I try to do as little conference call/zoom while underway. Also depends on your boat some are more quiet than others.
3 - I don't trust Marina wifi for security reasons. I use a dedicated wifi jet pack.

 

[mvweebles]

I have worked remote on/off for over 20-years. All I can do is give my experience, my opinion. In the late 90's, my company paid for data circuits installed to my home, a Willard 36 docked at Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay. I also started a decent delivery business (long story).

If you're a live-aboard in a marina, it's similar to being at home. I worked off my aft deck for a NJ based company. Some would comment about seagulls in the background. I was done by about 2 in the afternoon, and I'd head off sailing with friends.

But the last couple years I've tried to dovetail work with cruising - its difficult. If you have a normal terrestrial job and trying to do it while moving around, all I can say is it hasn't worked for me. If you're cruising or on a passage, work takes a distant back-seat to whatever is going on via the boat. Moving the boat is a huge distraction to work. I too have taken conference calls along the ICW and such. It's possible, but work does not get what they are paying for, at least for me. With Video calls become more common due to COVID 19, well, it will get worse. At least for me. Oh yea, and then you have the problem with lousy connectivity, even if you're tethered. Vinegar and Water when trying to combine with normal office work. At least that's my experience - very stressful.

Peter

 

[markpierce]

Doubt the Coots would serve your purpose, but some have desks in the saloon.

 

[rslifkin]

I definitely wouldn't want to plan to work while moving. But if you either move short hops in the evenings or move on the weekend and pick a spot to be for the week, working while cruising shouldn't be too hard to balance.

 

[Ted]

This one might check a lot of your boxes, cover the price tag to avoid shock.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/nordic-tugs-42-3661903/

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Nope, you can't operate a boat and do computer work at the same time. Very similar to driving and texting. Can not be done safely, and why would you want to anyway?

I assisted a friend in collecting some statistics from an assortment of "work from home" employees. It was really bad. Employers are definitely NOT getting their money's worth from this current "work from home" situation. We rarely completed a call without interruptions from kids, doorbells, other phone lines, pets,oven timers, etc. Granted, these were not professional work from home employees, just regular office guys pressed into working from home due to the current situation. I think unless the boat was shut down and at the dock or at anchor a cenference call would not go very well.

Marina WIFI is just plain bad. Almost 100% of the time. Marina operators will tell you any number of reasons, "Too many sailboat masts" , "Too much distance", Too many devices sharing band width",blah, blah, blah.. You can never count on it.

pete

 

[ksanders]

I work from my boat all the time. I send and recieve emails, review designs, submit bids, take orders, and help my clients troubleshoot issues.

Underway in a open ocean setting I can manage things pretty well. In closer quarters work is of course put on hold.

That said my average work day is pretty kicked back. Plenty of free time to drive the boat. I generally get my work done early in the morning before getting underway when possible. Travel days work gets less attention.

Having good quality networking gear is critical. Good quality meaning industrial grade networking equipment. I have a router onboard with two cellular modems, on two different carriers. Backing thas up I have a a KVH satcom system that provides 2 mbps and crystal clear telephone almost anywhere in the world.

I also have a Cisco phone off of the office PBX that works great except when on satcom service.

 

[Lepke]

I was a navy trained navigator. I can't imagine not having a full time watch when running. There's too much junk in the ocean nowadays that makes it dangerous. Especially near places where logs are moved in the water. And after the Japanese tsunami there were big things coming ashore all along the West Coast. Docks, even a large fishing boat.

After 5G is up and running, internet will get better. Offshore I don't think most people can afford ship type satellite internet. Especially if you're going to be on it all day. There are cheaper systems fishermen use, but, again, they're not on it all day and don't send much data. Some marina wifi is good enough to stream, but it depends on how many people are using it. The wifi that phone companies offer is getting better. Between the West Coast and Alaska I get good stream-able internet if I'm within 25-30 miles of a tower and a mountain isn't in the way. Verizon was the best and the most expensive, but getting cheaper. And unlimited is starting to mean unlimited.

Having a zoom meeting while running depends on your engines and sound insulation. A bigger boat will give you more options for a quiet place. Better ride, too. The North Pacific is rarely flat. You also need to make sure your alternators or generator isn't putting out static that might hurt transmission/reception.

 

[k9medic]

Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?

Depending on where you are. Running the ICW? no way. 20 miles off shore? sure.


Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?

Yep. Been on all kinds of calls. Never had an issue with noise.


Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

What is marina wifi??? LOL My marina doesn't have wifi so I hot spot my phone.

 

[JD Ray]

Lots of great answers, so thanks to the lot of you.

 

[JD Ray]

This one might check a lot of your boxes, cover the price tag to avoid shock.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/nordic-tugs-42-3661903/

Yeah, nice boat, but for that price I'd be looking elsewhere. But layout-wise, it's pretty good.

 

[ranger58sb]

• Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?
• Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?
• Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

1. No.
2. Yes. We've always been stationary, in a marina, using marina WiFi... and noise was a non-issue.
3. It depends. Some are very good, although we don't try streaming much (not particularly interested). Some are so-so. Some suck. Some are non-existent. Cellular is a decent fallback, assuming affordable data plan, etc.

FWIW, we use three different approaches. One is an inexpensive (relatively) WiFi router, with it's own receive and transmit antennas. When it works and the marina WiFi system cooperates, its very good, no need to sign 6-7 devices in separately, the router seems more efficient that using a WiFi hotspot...

The second is a WiFi hotspot. Mostly this is when a marina's splash page isn't compatible with the router set-up. We have an USB WiFi adapter (also relatively inexpensive) for this one, and can use either of our laptops as a hotspot for the rest of our devices.

Third is a cellular hotspot. It chews through data, but then again it usually works in situations where a marina's WiFi is crap.

There are outside antennae and much more elaborate systems (search the forum) but we haven't found those to be necessary from any of the marinas we've been in. Distance has never been a factor, for us; either the WiFi works or we switch to cell.

-Chris

 

[catalinajack]

It is not wise to try to work while standing watch. It's a very bad idea. Example: while driving our boat one day in Georgia, 10 seconds of inattention had me out of the channel and onto a shoal that required an assistance tow. Think about this. Is texting while driving a car a good idea? You may think the analogy is poor but it is not. Even in a slow boat things can go wrong in a hurry. Don't do it. If you do, you will do a poor job at both.

My career is one that can be done effectively 100% remote, which is good for me in these times of massive unemployment and stay-at-home orders. The downside is that it requires me to be online the entire workday.

As I shop for boats that look like they'd work for us, I look for a good desk area that is separate from the main salon/saloon area. Since I'm often out of bed and working before my wife is up, I would like it to be outside the owner's cabin also, but having boat-wide WiFi would mean that I could carry my laptop from one point to another, leaving the larger, secondary monitor at a desk.

I understand the challenges of providing Internet on a boat, and know that there are systems, specifically network routers, that can combine several options for Internet service (marina wifi, cellular, satellite, etc.) into one or more boat-based networks (guest, owner, crew). I'm fully capable of installing and maintaining one of these systems.

But, much like knowing how to start and engine and steer a boat doesn't make you a passagemaking captain, there are some blind spots for me with respect to working from a boat, because I've never tried.

• Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?
• Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?
• Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

The more robust I can find a work situation on board, the sooner I could spend weeks at a time on a boat. So, naturally, I'm putting effort into figuring it out.

 

[mvweebles]

Thinking back, I've been more or less in the OPs shoes for a few years, at least occasionally. Meaning trying to maintain semblance of working remote while aboard a boat that's cruising, though for me it's been more vacation mode. A good friend of mine is retired and frequently needs crew to reposition his boat - I'm the closest thing he's got to someone who is capable and can sneak away.

Also, because I too work 100% remote and like to travel, I often work from other places - I was just in the Yucatan for 5-weeks where no one on the other end of the call knew I was anywhere but home. I also have a cabin in the mountains of Colorado where we spend summers now that I am able to have DSL run to the place - before, I could eek out a couple weeks tethering, but I often had to run to town for good cell reception for a call.

Spotty internet is a common problem, at least where I travel. It is extremely stressful to figure out how to have a Skype/Teams call when you know your internet connection may not hold. My wife also works remote so we sometimes need to coordinate when one of us has an important call - absolutely no internet usage by the other.

Tethering off cell phone is pretty good, but far from perfect. When it works, it's great. But there is no way to predict where the holes are if you're moving around.

I'm my opinion, as someone who has done countless multi-day passages, the barrier of working while underway is practical, not just safety and communications. Analogy of texting and driving is not correct for doing computer work while offshore passagemaking, more like listening to a podcast and driving. Some distraction, but manageable. While rarely overwhelming, there are a lot of tasks and activities going on when the boat is simply underway. VHF radio traffic, navigation, radar or AIS target analysis, cooking, running water maker or generator, weather, occasional equipment checks, etc. Sleep schedule usually changes to include naps to catch up after a night watch, etc.

Bottom line. If you work in a virtual office environment where folks are expected to be online via Teams/Skype, you can hobble by on a boat that's moving around, but it will not be seamless. It will be stressful and you will be constantly making up excuses to explain when your call dropped or you missed a call or why you've been offline all morning. If this is your world, I don't think it practical to cruise full time while being employed full time, but you can use it to extend your holiday time, but at a cost of productivity.

If, however, working remote for your work has more episodic interactions via email with only occasional conference calls, it's more workable. Just depends on what "working remote" means in your world. A good example are the myriad of YouTube channels - the cruising sailors do a fair amount of editing work underway, then just upload when they have wifi.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[catalinajack]

Another thought on needing full-time internet access - we did the Loop in 2018/2019. On the Illinois River from Peoria to Grafton, reception was spotty at best. We had both Verizon and AT&T devices. There will be places along the way where you will not have service for significant parts of the day.

 

[k9medic]

Given some of the responses, you should also never read a book, plot on a map or do anything other than keep your eyes to the horizon.

 

[JD Ray]

Sooner or later this stay-at-home thing will be lifted. After that, my wife and I are keen on hitching a ride on a trawler in some manner or another (charter, classes, standing on the dock with our thumb out). Among the goals for us on such a trip will be both of us spending time at or near the helm station (not necessarily piloting) and understanding what all the things are you need to pay attention to while there.

I crewed C-130 transport aircraft while in the USAF. On longer flight legs, I spent a lot of time on the flight deck, asking (annoying) questions of the pilots. I even got some stick time once, but don't tell the Air Force. At any rate, there are a bunch of gauges, dials, buttons, and switches. It seemed like you could never watch them all at once, and of course you can't. But development of the knowledge of what to pay attention to when is a learned skill. Also, knowing where to look when you need to find something out, however rare that need for that particular thing is.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B:

1. No, no, no. Bad boy to even suggest.

2. Easy and many many times. No problem with noise.

3. Never would be dependent on marina WIFI. Either cell, if you stay close enough to land, of satellite.

 

[catalinajack]

I was one of "those responses". I am also one who ran aground badly because of a few seconds of inattention. No doubt sometimes one can be a bit casual when on watch but reading a book at any time, or doing serious computer work, or teleconferencing is not safe boating practice in my opinion.

Given some of the responses, you should also never read a book, plot on a map or do anything other than keep your eyes to the horizon.

 

[Birdman]

I "worked from my boat" for YEARS!! Just please please please do NOT tell my boss!

 

[Monk36]

JD
We have a Monk36 trawler and I have worked aboard with no issues.

Please don’t do anything else but WATCH while when you are on watch. I never work while underway except for phone calls..

While in a slip or on the hook, sound is no issue if engines are off.

Marinas offer free WiFi

I purchased a remote modem from ATT and the service is $25 a month and works anywhere your cell works.
It works everywhere on our trawler and can also be used for WiFi for a smart TV. Handles multiple users and is password protected.

We have an expanding dining table I use for a desk . My wife will be in master bedroom with the door closed so I can make calls, etc.

It’s the best place to work!

 

[Rsysol]

1. Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?

It depends on the passage, anything off shore would be much less dependant on a constant watch, but you wouldn't have connectivity unless you have satillite, $$$. Near shore, nope, never.


2. Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?

Yes and no.

3. Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

As with anything, it depends, I've lived/worked on board for several years running a software company. Our Marina had excellent Wifi and I had a hotspot as backup. Never a problem. Off shore, I can typically get mobile data from 10 miles off. In transit, I would schedule calls and check emails but no real focused work if the conditions warranted paying close attention. Of course, my wife would run the boat if I needed to be focused.

I worked from the pilothouse and had a great setup with a clamp on dual monitor stand. It took me about 5 minutes to disassemble for cruising. Made work pleasant to have the full pilothouse view as my office.

 

[HypnoBob]

We operated our company while we lived onboard full-time and cruised the great loop for three years.

1. Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?

You really can't be standing watch and working your computer on the rivers or ICW (Great Loop). Even offshore, you have to be alert to semi-sunken containers, crab-pot floats, and other debris. So, no. Not worth it. I was a helmsman on the 100 foot USCG Cutter Rambler (ICW buoy tender). That's where I learned the importance of "situational awareness." Have I got stories. Sheesh.

2. Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?

To do this effectively (sans the jerking video) and reliably, you'll need a couple booster antennas. One for your WIFI and one for your CELL PHONE.

We installed the WIFI booster from https://www.islandtimepc.com/wifi-systems. Gave us a secure router with an eight mile range. Also, if you have Norton 360, you can select to engage the VPN (very private network) for added security. In the Bahamas, we subscribed to a WIFI service and always had strong signal around most of the islands with secure login credentials.

Secondly, we used a booster for our CELL PHONE signal. The one we bought gave us 50 mile range (versus the five mile range most cell phones get). Anyone getting within 100 feet of our boat, picked up the signal and got five bars. We tied up to a dock next to a bar in a part of the country where there was no cell service - until we got there. Then everyone's phones started ringing and beeping with calls, messages, and texts. Ooops, some people went to that bar specifically because it was a dead zone. It worked in the US, Bahamas, and Canada. Be sure to get one designated for RV, CAR or TRUCK so it can be used while moving. Some of the home or office units you tune to a specific stationary cell tower. In a boat, that changes as you cruise, so this is important. You'll spend around $400+ for the unit. The <$100 just don't do the job (I know).

3. Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

In the US, most of the marinas were shy on repeaters on the docks and you could see a lot of people with their laptops sitting around the office. Even on the farthest pier/dock, anchored, or on a mooring ball in the distance, we had five bars with our booster. Wouldn't leave home without one.

 

[AlanT]

• Is it feasible to do computer-based work while standing watch on a passage, or do you need to be scanning the sea ahead every moment?
• Have you ever participated in a conference call (Zoom meeting, etc.) from the boat? Was background noise a concern?
• Just how bad is marina wifi? Can you rely on it for anything more complicated than browsing your favorite Internet forums?

I'll tackle the first two. You can do some work while standing a watch depending on the circumstances. Offshore (Ie; Ocean not coastal) you won't be watching the ocean constantly. You will likely carefully scan the waters ahead every few minutes, you'll scan the entire horizon every 15 minutes or so (at 8 knots), you will scan your instruments, radar, engine temps etc every few minutes. The problems with working at this time are:
1/ that it is very easy to become distracted by the work, and before you know it, its 30 minutes since you scanned the horizon or studied the water ahead. Easy to hit a buoy, crab pot, debris in that time or have a container ship come up behind you, and,
2/ It is hard to concentrate on your work when you have to interrupt it every few minutes to scan the waters ahead.

Presumably your job requires a lot of concentration, and focusing on a laptop screen. Either of these preclude you being able to do that simultaneously with standing watch. When I am mid-ocean I will take 15 minutes and go below to send check/email, make a sandwich or such. Generally only at night (when it is easier to spot large vessels) I never stay longer than the time I have calculated I need to be aware of a fast approaching vessel beyond my sight. A container ship approaching at 20 knots will close on your bow about 7 miles in 15 minutes. In other words it will go from being out of sight to being on your bow in that time. Radar gives you more warning than this, usually.....

Coastal or inshore is different. Someone needs to be on watch constantly, pure and simple. If I am solo I will take as long as it takes to have a pee and I never feel comfortable while I am below.

Background noise on a passage depends on the boat of course. My twin engines in my last boat would have made a conference call difficult, but normal calls work OK. Of course you are not concentrating on the boat or your environment when you are on the phone, so same caveats as above apply. Wave action/boat movement is also a real issue offshore.

Realistically how often will be you be on a passage? I think we often over estimate this unless you are perhaps on a world cruise or similar. If you scheduled your passages as "vacation" days would that work for you?

Good luck in your plans.

~Alan

 

[Airstream345]

I remote work from home full time from the boat (we live-aboard) but wouldn't try working while underway. The few times I've needed to take a call when moving my wife or crew takes watch.

No noise issues. I do get "are you on boat?!" quite often from colleagues. Sometimes I explain and other time I say it's my "Zoom background".

We setup our own dedicate cellular hotspot and wifi network onboard. It's nowhere near land based connectivity, but it's far more reliable than marina WiFi and it goes with us.

 

[dutch-barge]

Here is a detailed way to always stay connected world wide.

https://mvdirona.com/2009/06/remote-data-communication-costs/#comment-365910

 

[stevemitchell]

I work from the boat about 80% of the time, sometimes a lot more in the summer months. I also design and install internet solutions for a lot of boaters, and myself use similar gear. It's definitely possible to work from the boat.

You've highlighted the two top areas I always recommend folks think about - a quality LTE/WiFi setup, and a proper environment to have the computer. The former is mildly difficult to get right without some trial and error, specifically the LTE part. Finding the right space for the computer can be pretty easy though - I have a dinette area that works well with a laptop stand and I use either an arm mounted monitor or my iPad as a second display.

I have been doing Zoom and other video calls for years, and most recently, a lot more. They work well with lower latency, moderate bandwidth internet connections. LTE and WiFi both work if you have at least 1Mbps and lower than 75ms of latency.

I would never, ever do any computing while underway. I don't even like texting or having a phone out for most of the time, unless it is an emergency.

 

[IntoTheBlue]

I have worked remote on/off for over 20-years. All I can do is give my experience, my opinion. In the late 90's, my company paid for data circuits installed to my home, a Willard 36 docked at Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay. I also started a decent delivery business (long story).

If you're a live-aboard in a marina, it's similar to being at home. I worked off my aft deck for a NJ based company. Some would comment about seagulls in the background. I was done by about 2 in the afternoon, and I'd head off sailing with friends.

But the last couple years I've tried to dovetail work with cruising - its difficult. If you have a normal terrestrial job and trying to do it while moving around, all I can say is it hasn't worked for me. If you're cruising or on a passage, work takes a distant back-seat to whatever is going on via the boat. Moving the boat is a huge distraction to work. I too have taken conference calls along the ICW and such. It's possible, but work does not get what they are paying for, at least for me. With Video calls become more common due to COVID 19, well, it will get worse. At least for me. Oh yea, and then you have the problem with lousy connectivity, even if you're tethered. Vinegar and Water when trying to combine with normal office work. At least that's my experience - very stressful.

Peter

Totally agree. I have worked off my boat during voyages over the years. For the most part the normal daily routine is ok, especially when staying in one area for a while. Wake up, go online, answer emails, work up and complete tasks, etc. However, even then, times come when the business requires all of your attention. This happens a few times each year and has cost me big time. Hopping from one anchorage to another during a voyage while trying to juggle a "multi hour business task" is hard to do and something often does give.