Xantrex

[BaltimoreLurker]

Is it the chargers, inverters or inverter/chargers that are failing? As I've mentioned before my Xantrex charger has been working without any problems for a few years now. So I'm just curious if maybe I got lucky or if stand-alone chargers aren't plagued with the same problems as the inverters or inverter/chargers.

 

[Baggiolini]

Is it the chargers, inverters or inverter/chargers that are failing? As I've mentioned before my Xantrex charger has been working without any problems for a few years now. So I'm just curious if maybe I got lucky or if stand-alone chargers aren't plagued with the same problems as the inverters or inverter/chargers.

Mine is/was a stand alone 60amp charger. Vague memories of a discussion here or another forum which concluded that the older stuff was bullet proof but that quality had fallen off a cliff.

 

[Capn Chuck]

Is it the chargers, inverters or inverter/chargers that are failing? As I've mentioned before my Xantrex charger has been working without any problems for a few years now. So I'm just curious if maybe I got lucky or if stand-alone chargers aren't plagued with the same problems as the inverters or inverter/chargers.

I hear this response over and over again when these discussions come up. Someone ALWAYS jumps in and states how their unit has been working for years without failure and they are absolutely correct. But it has little to do with the general discussion at hand and for one very good reason. The units turned out by Xantrex today have no similarity to the units they used to make. the parts, manufacturing plants, quality control and engineers the company now uses to produce their products are not the same so you are comparing apples to oranges. Xantex is crap, IMO and that of most others that have bought and installed their units lately but if you love them, go out and buy a new one. If you want a problem free inverter, charger or inverter/charger, spend the money and get a Victron, Magnum or Outback. There are still great products made by well known marine manufacturers like Newmar. Xantrex is not one of them. Chuck

 

[bobofthenorth]

Be interesting to know how the Xantrex Freedom 25 differs from the original Heart Freedom 25.

I could be wrong but I don't think there is such a thing as a Xantrex designed Freedom 25. My understanding is they just rebranded the Heart inverters when they bought Heart but that product is the Heart design not a Xantrex design. We have two Freedom 25s, both Heart branded. I've seen their guts next to current production Xantrex products and I wouldn't trade for any amount of money. I don't know what I'll do if something catastrophic happens to my Hearts but I do have an old geek in Calgary who likes working on them. I had him go through the one on the bus and replace the relays in it a couple of years ago. I don't think the one on Gray Hawk has seen nearly as much use as the one on the bus had at that time but I suppose a little PM on it wouldn't hurt either.

 

[twistedtree]

I might be able to help decipher their historic product line a bit, but some of it is far enough back that my memory isn't so clear....

Xantrex went on a buying spree back around 2000 or so. They bought two good companies with good products:

- Heart Interface, makers of the Freedom 10, 25, and maybe others. There was an RV version and a marine version. These were solid products, but I'm pretty sure all were modified sine wave.

- Trace, makers of the SW4025 along with a number of different variations, and also a DS or DT (or some other designation) line. The SWs were all pure sine wave and the DT were modified sine wave. I never used the DT line but I think they were good - just crude. The SW were excellent. I ran a house off one for 10 years, and still have it sitting in my garage as a backup.

They kept selling both products for a long time, relabeled as Xantrex, but destroyed the companies. The Trace guys left and started Outback.

Xantrex also bought pretty much every other little inverter vendor out there. I can't remember all the names, but there were a lot of them. Does anyone remember the names? ProSine was one, and is now the source of the total train wreck that they are today.

Somewhere along the way they did a refresh of the Trace SW product and botched it all up. It was pretty clear they had very little engineering skill internally. They also appeared to set out to consolidate and "value engineer" the product line. I think this is where they wrecked whatever products they had, though some of them may have been marginal to begin with.

Then somehow they created the XW line of commercial inverter/charger targeted at the off-grid market. I'm not sure where the engineering talent came from, but they are actually quite good products. An XW6048 has been running my house now for the past 5 years without skipping a beat. But what do you do with a good product line if you are Xantrex? Get rid of it fast - it might improve your reputation ;-) That's the product line that they sold to Schneider Electric, and it's still going strong.

What Xantrex has retained is the ProSine and ProWatt line which is utter crap, and they are useless when it comes to standing behind it. The horror stories are never ending.

Can anyone else fill in some of the blanks or add? I think the bottom line is that if you have a product that is from the Trace or Heart lineage, it's pretty good. Otherwise I'd get it off the boat fast. I also wouldn't touch the new "Freedom" products. As others have said, there are numerous good alternative like Outback, Magnum, Victron, and Mastervolt.

 

[ksanders]

Twistedtree

My history with Xantrex pretty much follows what you described of their product line.

I had Freedom units on a couple boats and loved them.

I even had good luck with a prosine unit, but I admit that doesn't mean much, I might have just gotten lucky.

What I noticed is that where the freedom was a very heavy unit, the prosine was much lighter.

When I needed a inverter for my new boat in 2011 I opted for the 3KW Freedom SW. This unit appears to be an attempt to go back to the heavy weight robust construction of the old freedom series.

 

[Delfin]

I might be able to help decipher their historic product line a bit, but some of it is far enough back that my memory isn't so clear....

Xantrex went on a buying spree back around 2000 or so. They bought two good companies with good products:

- Heart Interface, makers of the Freedom 10, 25, and maybe others. There was an RV version and a marine version. These were solid products, but I'm pretty sure all were modified sine wave.

- Trace, makers of the SW4025 along with a number of different variations, and also a DS or DT (or some other designation) line. The SWs were all pure sine wave and the DT were modified sine wave. I never used the DT line but I think they were good - just crude. The SW were excellent. I ran a house off one for 10 years, and still have it sitting in my garage as a backup.

They kept selling both products for a long time, relabeled as Xantrex, but destroyed the companies. The Trace guys left and started Outback.

Xantrex also bought pretty much every other little inverter vendor out there. I can't remember all the names, but there were a lot of them. Does anyone remember the names? ProSine was one, and is now the source of the total train wreck that they are today.

Somewhere along the way they did a refresh of the Trace SW product and botched it all up. It was pretty clear they had very little engineering skill internally. They also appeared to set out to consolidate and "value engineer" the product line. I think this is where they wrecked whatever products they had, though some of them may have been marginal to begin with.

Then somehow they created the XW line of commercial inverter/charger targeted at the off-grid market. I'm not sure where the engineering talent came from, but they are actually quite good products. An XW6048 has been running my house now for the past 5 years without skipping a beat. But what do you do with a good product line if you are Xantrex? Get rid of it fast - it might improve your reputation ;-) That's the product line that they sold to Schneider Electric, and it's still going strong.

What Xantrex has retained is the ProSine and ProWatt line which is utter crap, and they are useless when it comes to standing behind it. The horror stories are never ending.

Can anyone else fill in some of the blanks or add? I think the bottom line is that if you have a product that is from the Trace or Heart lineage, it's pretty good. Otherwise I'd get it off the boat fast. I also wouldn't touch the new "Freedom" products. As others have said, there are numerous good alternative like Outback, Magnum, Victron, and Mastervolt.

The basic problem with their products is that it is easier to buy an inverter maker than to integrate the engineering teams that come with the acquisition. Xantrex lost most of the real talent in these companies and didn't have the managerial talent to keep the good engineers, or direct those that stayed. The result was a hodge podge of failed efficiencies, off shoring of manufacturing without appropriate supervision and lousy products. They had market share because they bought it, but once they owned it, they couldn't keep it with good products. Or so said one of their former top executives I know who left the company during their ill advised acquisition spree.

 

[healhustler]

Assuming you spent thousands of dollars on your boat, why would you use a "cheap wallmart charger" to keep your batteries charged? There's a good chance you will ruin the batteries and there's a chance you will start a fire on your boat.

Decent "smart" marine battery chargers can be had for a couple hundred dollars and up. Why risk it?

I've got my two 8D house batteries with a 6amp/2amp charger that I use to top them off every other day till I get my Xantrex back. Cables are off.

 

[FF]

"Is there a test I can perform to tell if my charger is 'unsafe'?"

YES , but I prefer you find it online rather than attempt to remember it.

It concerns weather/how/ the unit is grounded internally and can pass any AC current in the neutral line into the battery , then into the water.

 

[FF]

Anyone actually purchasing a new big buck charger should look for a shut down feature.

Seems a constant charge (even just a tiny maint charge) will shorten the batt life.

The new concept is to charge to 100% and shut down.

The unit will of course come on to take dockside DC loads (at float style voltages) , but if there are no loads there will be no charge,

Untill a set voltage is reached from internal discharg , when the unit will again fully charge the batteries.

High end chargers only , so far , but in 6 months or a year should be on even Norther Tool chargers.

 

[twistedtree]

The basic problem with their products is that it is easier to buy an inverter maker than to integrate the engineering teams that come with the acquisition. Xantrex lost most of the real talent in these companies and didn't have the managerial talent to keep the good engineers, or direct those that stayed. The result was a hodge podge of failed efficiencies, off shoring of manufacturing without appropriate supervision and lousy products. They had market share because they bought it, but once they owned it, they couldn't keep it with good products. Or so said one of their former top executives I know who left the company during their ill advised acquisition spree.

Sounds right to me. I don't have the inside scoop on Xantrex, but what you describe is a frequently occurring outcome with tech acquisitions.

 

[healhustler]

I could be wrong but I don't think there is such a thing as a Xantrex designed Freedom 25. My understanding is they just rebranded the Heart inverters when they bought Heart but that product is the Heart design not a Xantrex design.

Probably right. Here's the manual. Sure looks like a Heart to me, and it is really super heavy. Twistedtree's explanation is likely why the unit ended up "badge engineered" by Xantrex.

 

[JAT]

When I bought JAT....there was a Heart Inverter Charger..... It never seemed to do the job....didn't keep the batteries charged...and it was a pain to use....easier to fire the gennie. Pulled it out and sold it.

I installed a Xantrex battery charger...new style...didn't last as well as the old style.... Replaced it with a Mastervolt.....and if I ever go back to a combination unit this is what I will buy!

Mass Combi 12/4000-200 (120 V) | Mastervolt Marine

This is the charger I put in....by Mastervolt.....and it does the job very well and I am quite pleased with it!

PowerCharger 12/40-3 | Mastervolt Marine

And when I put in an inverter...if not a combo unit....here's what it will be:

Mass Sine 12/2000 (120V) | Mastervolt Marine

 

[Baggiolini]

Xantrex charger #3 now replaced with a mastervolt chargemaster 12/50-3. Looks like Xantrex refunded entire cost of the original charger so all I had to pay was the difference between the cost of the two chargers.

Hopefully mastervolt works better for me than Xantrex.

 

[Wkirsh]

I would greatly appreciate some guidence regarding our inverter/charger a 2000 prosine inverter by Xantex. Either at dock or underway with the battery bank fully charged, ( new batteries) the inverter will stop inverting and automatically turn off. It will cycle maybe 50 - 60 times and then turn back on inverting for no specific reason. I have been on the phone and email multiple time with Xantex but have never been truly helped! I recently replaced all the batteries and this issues continue. The random turning off of the inverter occurs either with a high load, very low load, no load or normal use range. It occurs underway, when the generator is on or off, when the alternator is on or off, when the charger is on or off. A random event with no pattern. I have had multiple professionals tell me that due to where Xantex is made and poor quality controls in place I should remove the system and go to another brand. My hesitation is that this same issue has been randomly occurring for 1000 engine hours. I would like to understand the problem before I expense the time and monies. Possibly "user error"???? Need help to generate a differential diagnosis..... Please help!!!!!

Bill

 

[Bay Pelican]

Can't help. I dumped my Prosine 2000 after six years for a random charging problem. It it would cease charging for no reason and go into a float mode every second or third time I turned the charger on. Xantrex said since it was out of warranty it was non repairable.

That aside, if you end up replacing it, you may want to keep the Xantrex unit as a second charger and learn how to charge your battery banks with two chargers when your generator is operating.

Good luck.

Marty

 

[sunchaser]

Can't help. I dumped my Prosine 2000 after six years for a random charging problem. Good luck.

Bill

I got rid of my 3000 for similar reasons to Marty. Replaced with Magnum 2800. My cruising grounds require a very reliable inverter/charger, which is not Xantrex. You are very patient, sounds like it is time for a change.