Yee Haw No More 8Ds on ASD!!

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

My last 8D died this morning! Port side. I hate these batteries as it is a chore to take them out of the battery box, drag them over the engine room, up to the galley, up to the salon, across the sun deck, down to the cockpit and over the rail to the dock. Just sucks.

So I replaced it with 2 group 31 HD batteries. I replaced the STBD batteries 2 years ago and are working great. No more watering. These are ONLY start batteries and are not hooked up to a charger. No need too as I run the engines once a week for an hour or so during the winter.

I did however take a couple of Aleve for the ol' back!

 

[CharlieJ]

@ AS-D: As a practicing marine electrician I have made it my goal in life to eliminate every single 8D battery that I discover on boats. Thank you for supporting my cause!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

@ AS-D: As a practicing marine electrician I have made it my goal in life to eliminate every single 8D battery that I discover on boats. Thank you for supporting my cause!

I am with you brother!!!

 

[Comodave]

On a previous boat we had 5 8Ds. The battery boxes were glassed into the hull and were very stout. The really bad thing was that you had to crouch and pick the 8Ds up to the overhead and then sideways into the boxes. Talk about a PITA. I had some delivered to the boat and asked the live aboard next door to take delivery for me. He asked if I wanted him to install them. I asked how much and he said $100. I told him that he had to lift them up to the overhead, etc. He still wanted to do it so I said ok. Best $100 I ever spent.

 

[rslifkin]

No 8Ds here, but my L16s for the house bank aren't the easiest to move. 125-ish lbs each and the best place I could put them doesn't give great access for getting them in and out. They're basically down in a hole, under a ledge. Fortunately, there's room to stand in the area they're placed in, so once they're un-secured, it's basically tip forward, lift over the lip of their containment, lift up, pass to person standing in the cabin to finish the lift. And fortunately, they've got good handles.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Wimps! Try humping Rolls, my eyes hurt after watching the young bucks move those heavy Basterd’ s.

 

[RickyD]

Along this vane, I would like to add house bank capacity but, I have twin Cat 3208s that need lots of cranking power. I have 4 8Ds. Two for starters, two for house. The problem seems to be my two refrigerators. One draws 6.5amps at 110v. 6v golf carts don't seem to have the crank power. Lithium does not seem to have it. The way I'm set up: Port start 8D is isolated. Stb 8D is included in the house bank. One 16kW generator starts from the stb 8D, the 4kW one has its own start batt. I have a combiner (not working). I sure would like to add capacity without adding more battery boxes as the position of my Racors prevent that currently. Any suggestions?

 

[tozz]

My last 8D died this morning! Port side. I hate these batteries as it is a chore to take them out of the battery box, drag them over the engine room, up to the galley, up to the salon, across the sun deck, down to the cockpit and over the rail to the dock. Just sucks.



So I replaced it with 2 group 31 HD batteries. I replaced the STBD batteries 2 years ago and are working great. No more watering. These are ONLY start batteries and are not hooked up to a charger. No need too as I run the engines once a week for an hour or so during the winter.



I did however take a couple of Aleve for the ol' back!

6 8Ds here. Installed Jan 2016. Waiting for the day I get to replace them.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Along this vane, I would like to add house bank capacity but, I have twin Cat 3208s that need lots of cranking power. I have 4 8Ds. Two for starters, two for house. The problem seems to be my two refrigerators. One draws 6.5amps at 110v. 6v golf carts don't seem to have the crank power. Lithium does not seem to have it. The way I'm set up: Port start 8D is isolated. Stb 8D is included in the house bank. One 16kW generator starts from the stb 8D, the 4kW one has its own start batt. I have a combiner (not working). I sure would like to add capacity without adding more battery boxes as the position of my Racors prevent that currently. Any suggestions?

I see you have a Californian? Same battery setup I had on my 3208T/As until I reworked the entire system. If I had to do it again, I would suggest ACRs. I have 3 start batteries (Std,Port and Genny). They are not on the charger.

I did not want to be in a remote spot and drain a start battery.

Then I have 2 banks of 6vDc golf cart batteries. Each bank has 4 batteries and these are connected to the battery charger.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

6 8Ds here. Installed Jan 2016. Waiting for the day I get to replace them.

This last one lasted 6 years, so get ready!!

 

[rslifkin]

Along this vane, I would like to add house bank capacity but, I have twin Cat 3208s that need lots of cranking power. I have 4 8Ds. Two for starters, two for house. The problem seems to be my two refrigerators. One draws 6.5amps at 110v. 6v golf carts don't seem to have the crank power. Lithium does not seem to have it. The way I'm set up: Port start 8D is isolated. Stb 8D is included in the house bank. One 16kW generator starts from the stb 8D, the 4kW one has its own start batt. I have a combiner (not working). I sure would like to add capacity without adding more battery boxes as the position of my Racors prevent that currently. Any suggestions?

How much height do you have available? If you've got the height, replace the house bank with L16s. They're taller, so you can get more capacity in the same footprint compared to the 8Ds.

I'd probably also go to just 1 engine start bank in your case. And maybe a generator start bank. Or 2 engine start banks and have 1 generator start from each. And put in the switches necessary to be able to start any engine or generator from your choice of 2 banks. That should be enough to ensure you've always got starting power while reducing the space taken up by non-house batteries.

Personally, I run 2 start banks (1 per engine, genset shares with stbd), but either engine or the gen can start from either bank. And then house is separate from starting.

As a trick for those with 8D sized boxes, 3x Group 31 will fit perfectly in an 8D box. They're usually a bit more capacity than a single 8D (around 300 - 320 ah compared to 250-ish). And it means lifting 3 smaller, lighter batteries at replacement time instead of 1 big one.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

As a trick for those with 8D sized boxes, 3x Group 31 will fit perfectly in an 8D box. They're usually a bit more capacity than a single 8D (around 300 - 320 ah compared to 250-ish). And it means lifting 3 smaller, lighter batteries at replacement time instead of 1 big one.

My old 8D battery box will fit 4 group 31 batteries, but you have to turn one.

 

[Arc]

I added an auto watering system to my 8d’s. That eliminates one of the problems.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Along this vane, I would like to add house bank capacity but, I have twin Cat 3208s that need lots of cranking power. I have 4 8Ds. Two for starters, two for house. The problem seems to be my two refrigerators. One draws 6.5amps at 110v. 6v golf carts don't seem to have the crank power. Lithium does not seem to have it. The way I'm set up: Port start 8D is isolated. Stb 8D is included in the house bank. One 16kW generator starts from the stb 8D, the 4kW one has its own start batt. I have a combiner (not working). I sure would like to add capacity without adding more battery boxes as the position of my Racors prevent that currently. Any suggestions?

I'm curious why you say the 3208s need a lot of cranking power? I'm relatively new to the stewardship of a pair of 3208 NAs that when everything is right light off as soon as the starter spins. Port engine just started to get a little stubborn a few days ago but still fires up after a bit of cranking.



If I understand the history of these engines they saw a lot of use in over the road vehicles. I don't they those trucks and RVs packed 8Ds.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I'm curious why you say the 3208s need a lot of cranking power? I'm relatively new to the stewardship of a pair of 3208 NAs that when everything is right light off as soon as the starter spins. Port engine just started to get a little stubborn a few days ago but still fires up after a bit of cranking.



If I understand the history of these engines they saw a lot of use in over the road vehicles. I don't they those trucks and RVs packed 8Ds.

The reason I went to two group 31 batteries is my truck. Almost every diesel truck has 2 batteries.....When the key is turned they pop off and start.

 

[PM]

I bought 2 new 8Ds a few years ago. They were not branded "Interstate" but I was told they were made by them. I wrestled them into the boat and into the boxes only to have to pull and replace them 3 years later. Don't know if I overcooked them or what but good riddance!

pete

 

[ranger58sb]

Along this vane, I would like to add house bank capacity but, I have twin Cat 3208s that need lots of cranking power. I have 4 8Ds. Two for starters, two for house. The problem seems to be my two refrigerators. One draws 6.5amps at 110v. 6v golf carts don't seem to have the crank power. Lithium does not seem to have it. The way I'm set up: Port start 8D is isolated. Stb 8D is included in the house bank. One 16kW generator starts from the stb 8D, the 4kW one has its own start batt. I have a combiner (not working). I sure would like to add capacity without adding more battery boxes as the position of my Racors prevent that currently. Any suggestions?

Might be worth a dedicated thread?

Anyway, start with knowing minimum CCA/MCA for your 3208s. Your manual should specify. (For example, our 6CTAs need a minimum of 1250 CCA or 1560 MCA.)

Then look at different configurations to get there from here. For example, two G31s may be sufficient for each engine. And/or boatload of 6Vs might get you enough cranking amps to start an engine. (We start one engine with 4x 6Vs, 750 CCA per pair, 925 MCA per pair... so more cranking amps than the engine requires).

Two or maybe 3? G31s might fit in an 8D battery box, I think six 6Vs will usually fit in two 8D boxes -- I keep forgetting these, but you can get the idea... Multiple smaller batteries are each individually easier to schlep around, at least compared to 8Ds...

I'm a little unclear on your "two for starters, two for house" versus the "Stb 8D is included in the house bank."

Your fridge shouldn't be drawing 6.5A all the time, only when the compressor is running... so maybe you could do some study on how much it uses per day really -- that could help.

But given some imagination, especially with some help from the TF peanut gallery you might be able to improve...

-Chris

 

[Portage_Bay]

ASD, thank you for your explanation. And I do agree, it's important to be able trust the starting of your mains.

My question was directed to RickyD who is using a pair of 8Ds. Yes, I understand one is tied into the house bank.

I'm of the opinion that 8Ds are unnecessary overkill for the engine displacement found in many of our trawlers. I used to reliably start a Cat D397 with 8Ds. The 379 is 32.2 liters, the 3208 is 10.4. The 379 can be hard to start when cold. 8Ds were a good choice for that beast.

In addition to reliability I want redundancy. I won't tie my start batt(s) into the house bank to increase house bank capacity. But I do want to be able to start my mains from the house bank if need be. And I put an oversized batt on the gen in the unlikely event I need to use that one to start mains. And I carry a jump start pack in case I've managed to kill all start batts and the house batt. That should get the gen going and from there I can get everyone charged up.

 

[AlaskaProf]

I see you have a Californian?

Then I have 2 banks of 6vDc golf cart batteries. Each bank has 4 batteries and these are connected to the battery charger.

My Rawson has what seems to me a very slick setup (previous owner engineered; I wouldn't have been smart enough)

There are 8 6v cart batteries in two banks each wired series+parallel to separate A+B switches which are then cross-wired so that either bank can be selected as the house or start bank. Only the starboard switch serves the house bank and the inverter only draws through that switch, preserving whichever bank is selected on the port switch for tomorrow's start.

This vessel originally had a gen set. No more.

 

[Scottwb96]

Hey there ASD!!! I am one of the other Camargue's here in the PNW. Bought her from a friend's parents back in May. As another poster commented, the brokers were... ummm... "interesting"... Basically had to circumvent them to get the deal done.

Anyway, been doing a lot of upgrades/updates since I bought her. Been a fun journey, got to know the boat a lot more!

Just finished up basically a full electronics upgrade..
1. Stern thruster added and mated to a different brand on the same dual joystick.
2. Raymarine auto pilot
3. Raymarine Axiom
4. Raymarine Quantum 2 radar
5. Nacico AIS transceiver
6. Mathers Electronic Controllers
7. underwater lights controlled from bluetooth
8. Full LED (all ships bulbs) replacement
9. Replaced the flooring (carpet for laminate vinyl, waterproof)
10. LASTLY... Got rid of all but ONE 8D and/or lead acid battery!!! Replaced them all with PC2150 AGM's ZERO maintenance!!!! Actually had to do a differnet layout for the batts in the engine room but made a platform and added a flat "lid" and put foam gym matting on top. Makes for a VERY nice work area while in the engine room.

 

[Raffy]

8D's Suck

I agree with most of the posters here, I hate 8D's. Mine were located on the outboard side of my engines and only Hercules could get them in and out. Not only did I move my battery's to my Lazaret, I also replaced them with two Odessey 2250 battery's (one for each engine start) and both of them fit in one 8D box. These have a lot more cranking amps and reserve amps and my first set lasted over 10 years. I use 4 of the Odessey 2150 (group 31) for my house battery bank and one for my generator start. Since I am in the islands every year the one thing I don't want to worry about is battery issues. Besides if they are good enough for the Military they are good for me.

 

[4mo]

I have a new to me Navigator 53 with 2 8D's as the starting and another 2 8d's as the house bank that all need replacing.

After a lot of reading I'm thinking 6 Dyno GC batteries for the house in one of the double 8D boxes, and then group 31's to start the TAMD 63's in the other double 8d box. How many group 31s do I need to start the engines? If possible I'd love to have more 6v's in that box tied into the house bank.

Thoughts?

 

[Scottwb96]

I see you're in Seattle... I have a great hook-up on refurbed Odyssey PC2150 AGM batts. They are the turn-ins for King County motor pool. They are either 1 year or 2 years old, depending on what they were used in. They are $400+ batts new. I can get them at about 1/4 of that cost and they come with a 30 day exchange as well. I just put 8 on my boat for various uses... PM me if you're interested and I will give you the info...

 

[Lepke]

I use 8dc and 8dd batteries. I buy Dyno and they outlast any other same type batteries I've used. The deep cycle and starting batteries last about 10 years. My current boat came with 20 year old Dyno starting batteries. They were shot, but still would hold a charge for at least a week and start 2 Detroits.

For something I change every 10 years, I don't see it as a problem. Since I'm in my 70s, I hire a couple young gorillas (or is it gerillas?) to move the batteries. Next time I'll be in my 80s.

 

[squimmy27]

I'm all for a dedicated electrical thread. Here's my set-up that I would like to replace the house batteries consisted of 3 – 12volt group 8D wet-cell batteries. One dedicated engine start battery is a group 8D - 12 volt wet-cell unit, while a group 24 wet-cell battery is the generator start battery. Batteries are charged by engine driven alternators - 90amp Leece Neville units with internal regulation, and by 1 battery chargers; a Sentry 40amp 2 – bank unit. I'm still on shore power (USCG documented vessel paperwork is in the mail).

Goals for the replacement:

1. I want to have batteries that I can lift, access, maneuver topside without help. That might sound silly, but.....female independence is a good thing.
2. I'm a 70% live aboard & work virtually at the slip so my office (computer, printer, hotspot, etc.) are running all day. I'm working on the energy budget spreadsheet provided by someone on this forum & creating an 'shore-power' versus 'anchored' budget. On shore SWAG at the moment is <100 amp hours, I'll be upgrading the older electronics to Garmins in February, hopefully eliminating a number of single-task components, but I haven't cruised as yet.
3. I'm leaning to lithium

 

[squimmy27]

I'm all for a dedicated electrical thread. Here's my set-up that I would like to replace the house batteries consisted of 3 – 12volt group 8D wet-cell batteries. One dedicated engine start battery is a group 8D - 12 volt wet-cell unit, while a group 24 wet-cell battery is the generator start battery. Batteries are charged by engine driven alternators - 90amp Leece Neville units with internal regulation, and by 1 battery chargers; a Sentry 40amp 2 – bank unit. I'm still on shore power (USCG documented vessel paperwork is in the mail).

Goals for the replacement:

1. I want to have batteries that I can lift, access, maneuver topside without help. That might sound silly, but.....female independence is a good thing.
2. I'm a 70% live aboard & work virtually at the slip so my office (computer, printer, hotspot, etc.) are running all day. I'm working on the energy budget spreadsheet provided by someone on this forum & creating an 'shore-power' versus 'anchored' budget. On shore SWAG at the moment is <100 amp hours, I'll be upgrading the older electronics to Garmins in February, hopefully eliminating a number of single-task components, but I haven't cruised as yet.
3. I'm going lithium; replacing with 12V 300Ah seems attractive - except that they don't meet goal #1 - still an 8D spec (95 lbs, 19"x10"x9")...so maybe 3+ group 31 100Ahs

 

[healhustler]

I’ve replaced my 8D house bank thrice in 10 years. I was thinking this time might be my last time to do it solo, and I’m hoping by the time these are shot, Battleborn units or maybe even graphene tech will be affordable.

Still, a wet 8D is hard to beat for dumping big amperage into things like starters and thrusters.

 

[seadancer]

I added an auto watering system to my 8d’s. That eliminates one of the problems.

I am very interested in how you added an automatic watering system for your batteries. I have for of them on a "smart charger" but they suck up a lot of water. Was it a system you bought, or something you invented? Thank you for any information.
Patty
Sea Dancer

 

[seadancer]

Good to see another female skipper around the Sound.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I am very interested in how you added an automatic watering system for your batteries. I have for of them on a "smart charger" but they suck up a lot of water. Was it a system you bought, or something you invented? Thank you for any information.
Patty
Sea Dancer

Here are two that might work for you. There are others out there.

Flow Rite
Battery Watering Technologies