Yesterday’s adventure, last night’s adventure and today’s question.

[Capt. Rodbone]

Yesterday morning in Wrightsville Beach NC we attempted to weigh anchor. The windlass didn’t sound funny, but seemed very sluggish even with my two armed assistance. We were doing the correct things. Only trying to pull vertically and also going slightly forward on it, which has always broken it free in the past. Attached pictures illustrate while we were having a problem. A massive at least to me, hunk of chain, extremely rusted, and barnacle encrusted was on my anchor. Each length was probably 6 inches. Fortunately, the water was clear enough that I stopped my hoisting before getting it above the water so as to not strain things too much. In order to do anything other than go swimming to no avail, I was about to launch my dinghy and go around when I flagged down a small center console with two young men who kindly assisted. With them at my bow, and all four of their hands on the chunk, with me out on the bow pulpit. and my boat hook through the bar on the Rochna pulling up we finally released it back to Davey Jones.

So last night we go to a well-known Anchorage for loopers between Wrightsville Beach and Morehead city called mile hammock Bay next to camp Lejeune Marine Corps base. I have to think it is so popular only because there really aren’t many alternatives. There’s probably room for 20 boats safely. It was blowing well more than the forecast and sustained at probably 14 and gusting to 20, S to SW We were probably the fifth boat in, but after dragging and resetting, probably five times over the course of the next couple of hours four or five other boats had come in and space was getting limited. I think my wife’s final count was 16 boats. In close to 2500 miles we have dragged only one other time with the exception of when we snagged a cinder block and rope while attempting to anchor. I’ve been pleased, but as one of my friends in the anchorage suggested, maybe that weight on the Rochna deformed it in some way? We finally held in an area I was not completely comfortable with because it put a boat ramp and a bulkhead, where we had no idea of the water depth as a reasonably close Lee shore. But it held. I was likely also, aided by utilizing a suggestion over the radio to not set the anchor traditionally, but let it settle in on its own into the soft muck. Given the wind velocity, I suspect that did help. Fortunately, the wind abated around 11 PM and I was able to get some sleep. Probably aided by the back spasm meds I started taking not long after my bowsprit gymnastics I should note there is quite a bit of information online regarding the mucky and poor holding of this area, which contributes to my thinking that it’s so popular only because of no other options.
So here are my questions but first a few specs. This is a Grand Banks 42 foot classic. The ROCHNA is a 25KG/55 pound model. My wife has posted on this topic at the Grand Banks forum page and we’ve received a fair amount of information from folks helping us figure out if we need a different tackle arrangement. Based on some of the information I’m thinking people may be get confused on what is actually KG and what is LB which is easy to do. We have 60 ft of 3/8 inch chain, shackled to another 60 ft of the same with the pin wired.
I believe we have enough chain and a properly sized anchor. I also know 3/8 is what our windlass calls for. What I have to figure out is did the anchor tip bend? At first I didn’t think so. But once on the dock we are now tied to and looking at it from that level I’m not so sure. If it IS bent, maybe that contributed to last nights problem. It has an ever so slight curve at the tip; probably an inch or so long and it’s completely uniform and smooth on each side. I even speculate that slight curve helps get “the dig” started.
I’ll probably have this cloudy picture cleared up by my trawler forum brethren before I get the chance to dock walk at this marina in Morehead city but if I can spot a few Rocna anchors I will be able to compare their tip to mine. I may also be able to do that in some of the local marine store.
Lastly, if any of you think I’m undersized let me know. I’ll ask to be spared from suggestions I try another brand/style unless you had a Rocna, switched, and the new style was life changing. If so please share.

 

[sjisailor]

Wow, that is a harrowing night at anchor! Best wishes with the back meds :-/

As best I can tell in the photo it appears not to be bent and the tip looks like reference drawings such as: https://dkutenx65dka0.cloudfront.net/product-media/NGO/1000/1000/Rocna-Anchor-Dimensions-Guide.jpg

A protractor and straightedge could check.

As for whether it is undersized, you mention that it has worked great at other times so it is not obviously undersized. OTOH a 30kg anchor would be more reassuring (yes I prefer to be cautious!) Personally I'd try it a few more times, be sure to use Anchor Pro app (etc), and see whether it makes sense to move up.

 

[psneeld]

Funny, the only place I fouled an anchor was Wrightsville beach about halfway between the bridge and the USCG Station. A long, thick piece of rusty cable.....

I had a small 40 footer, much lighter than a 42 Grand Banks and had a 60lb Manson Supreme with 200 feet of 5/8 BBB chain. Never drug in Mile Hammock the 5 or six times I stayed in there even in 25 knots of wind.

Can't say why you had an issue....I do think I remember some early ROCNAs imported had metallurgy problems...how old/new is yours? Maybe it could have bent.

 

[FWT]

The Rocna size chart suggests you have a good size. Can argue for the next size up based on the chart but that's not my point.

Curious about which model you have? The original model had a hoop over the saddle that helps it lay point down. Your shank looks like the original model, but the saddle looks more like the Vulcan. I don't see a hoop in the first few photos but think I do see one in the last photo, but what I'm looking at might be a bale across the top of your roller.

The point being, if you have a hoop model that's missing its hoop you might have been having trouble getting it set point down.

Confirming your radio call, there is indeed a fair amount of online chat that all of the newer styles need to be left alone a bit to settle before backing down under power.

 

[sjisailor]

+1 on leaving a Rocna to settle for a while. It looks like the Rocna hoop is present -- it's in 3 of the photos if I'm viewing correctly.

 

[psneeld]

+1 on leaving a Rocna to settle for a while. It looks like the Rocna hoop is present -- it's in 3 of the photos if I'm viewing correctly.

 

[Flatswing]

options.
So here are my questions but first a few specs. This is a Grand Banks 42 foot classic. The ROCHNA is a 25KG/55 pound model. I’ll ask to be spared from suggestions I try another brand/style unless you had a Rocna, switched, and the new style was life changing. If so please share.

Your Rocna looks fine. Just keep using it.
A few thoughts:
1) Steve @ SV Panope found that although all the modern anchors are very good, some including the Rocna may have trouble resetting if there is any fouling of the tip.so if one drags, best to haul right up, & clean tip before resettling.
2) If you lose faith in your present set up you might consider going up one size of anchor as well as a longer (single) piece of 3/8”chain. With your bow height, 150’ gives you 7:1 scope in 20’ of water.
3) I had a Rocna on my GB36. Great anchor. Problem was the roll bar would hit the FRP bow pulpit. I switched to the Vulcan (also made by Rocna - specifically for “thru pulpit” type bow rollers). It was every bit as good in regular E coast cruising.

 

[ranger58sb]

The ROCHNA is a 25KG/55 pound model.

We have 60 ft of 3/8 inch chain, shackled to another 60 ft of the same with the pin wired.

I believe we have enough chain and a properly sized anchor. I also know 3/8 is what our windlass calls for.

I think the potential flaw I can see is the two 60-ft lengths of chain shackled together. Maybe less of a problem if the shackle goes through your windlass OK, I guess... but were it me I'd feel more comfortable with a continuous length of chain, with the only shackle(s) at the connection to the anchor.

Steve Goodwin (S/V Panope) has kinda down-rated the rollbar Rocna anchors, having seen better performance from some different products... but if you've reviewed all that and you're comfortable with your anchor and your technique, I don't see a huge reason to run right down to the anchor store...

-Chris

 

[High Wire]

We moved up from a 20Kg Rocna Vulcan to a 25Kg Rocna Vulcan. The 20 never dragged for us when we just had a Bimini top. But when we added a full enclosure to do the loop, we dragged several times in soft bottom with 30+ knot winds, thunderstorms and such. No dragging yet with the 25Kg although we have not left Florida since the change.

If you have a FB enclosure consider moving up one size.

 

[Hippocampus]

We had a Rocna on a 46’ sailboat. Even in line squalls with gusts >50 no issue anchoring in the sand or packed dirt of the windwards. However in the loose mud of the Chesapeake did drag in much more modest conditions. In the Caribbean you can see your anchor from the dinghy without diving. Often it would take literal days for it to bury beyond the roll bar. In loose mud if there’s a wind shift regardless of scope it will skate for awhile before reburying .

Compared to all the other anchors I’ve had thought the Rocna was the best. But after talking with other cruisers and reading have come to think all roll bar next gen anchors have the same set of issues. They take awhile to bury. They don’t like wind shifts (or current shifts). They don’t like loose mud.

Thought about going to a Spade as heard good things about them from several people I trust but decided when replacing the anchor on our current new to us boat to get a Vulcan. Have used it in loose mud, tidal and wind shifts and even 3:1 when forced to. So far so good. Would think about replacing the Rocna with a Vulcan.

BTW can your windlass freewheel or have a really fast down under power. If so have had occasion to get free of chain/cable by bringing it up best I can then trying to drop the anchor faster than the cable/chain I’m hung up on. Friend told me he will take a couple of dirty junky fenders and tied them to the offending chain so it will drop a bit slower than his anchor chain. Never tried that but seems logical. Have also put a line on my chain as low as possible and using the dinghy surge that line forward several times. That has worked to get the anchor free. Need some one at the helm of the big boat paying attention so there’s no tension on your chain above where you tied the line. Of course if you can dive the anchor then just pull it out backwards

 

[SailorGreg]

Yesterday morning in Wrightsville Beach NC we attempted to weigh anchor. The windlass didn’t sound funny, but seemed very sluggish even with my two armed assistance. We were doing the correct things. Only trying to pull vertically and also going slightly forward on it, which has always broken it free in the past. Attached pictures illustrate while we were having a problem. A massive at least to me, hunk of chain, extremely rusted, and barnacle encrusted was on my anchor. Each length was probably 6 inches. Fortunately, the water was clear enough that I stopped my hoisting before getting it above the water so as to not strain things too much. In order to do anything other than go swimming to no avail, I was about to launch my dinghy and go around when I flagged down a small center console with two young men who kindly assisted. With them at my bow, and all four of their hands on the chunk, with me out on the bow pulpit. and my boat hook through the bar on the Rochna pulling up we finally released it back to Davey Jones.



So last night we go to a well-known Anchorage for loopers between Wrightsville Beach and Morehead city called mile hammock Bay next to camp Lejeune Marine Corps base. I have to think it is so popular only because there really aren’t many alternatives. There’s probably room for 20 boats safely. It was blowing well more than the forecast and sustained at probably 14 and gusting to 20, S to SW We were probably the fifth boat in, but after dragging and resetting, probably five times over the course of the next couple of hours four or five other boats had come in and space was getting limited. I think my wife’s final count was 16 boats. In close to 2500 miles we have dragged only one other time with the exception of when we snagged a cinder block and rope while attempting to anchor. I’ve been pleased, but as one of my friends in the anchorage suggested, maybe that weight on the Rochna deformed it in some way? We finally held in an area I was not completely comfortable with because it put a boat ramp and a bulkhead, where we had no idea of the water depth as a reasonably close Lee shore. But it held. I was likely also, aided by utilizing a suggestion over the radio to not set the anchor traditionally, but let it settle in on its own into the soft muck. Given the wind velocity, I suspect that did help. Fortunately, the wind abated around 11 PM and I was able to get some sleep. Probably aided by the back spasm meds I started taking not long after my bowsprit gymnastics I should note there is quite a bit of information online regarding the mucky and poor holding of this area, which contributes to my thinking that it’s so popular only because of no other options.

So here are my questions but first a few specs. This is a Grand Banks 42 foot classic. The ROCHNA is a 25KG/55 pound model. My wife has posted on this topic at the Grand Banks forum page and we’ve received a fair amount of information from folks helping us figure out if we need a different tackle arrangement. Based on some of the information I’m thinking people may be get confused on what is actually KG and what is LB which is easy to do. We have 60 ft of 3/8 inch chain, shackled to another 60 ft of the same with the pin wired.

I believe we have enough chain and a properly sized anchor. I also know 3/8 is what our windlass calls for. What I have to figure out is did the anchor tip bend? At first I didn’t think so. But once on the dock we are now tied to and looking at it from that level I’m not so sure. If it IS bent, maybe that contributed to last nights problem. It has an ever so slight curve at the tip; probably an inch or so long and it’s completely uniform and smooth on each side. I even speculate that slight curve helps get “the dig” started.

I’ll probably have this cloudy picture cleared up by my trawler forum brethren before I get the chance to dock walk at this marina in Morehead city but if I can spot a few Rocna anchors I will be able to compare their tip to mine. I may also be able to do that in some of the local marine store.

Lastly, if any of you think I’m undersized let me know. I’ll ask to be spared from suggestions I try another brand/style unless you had a Rocna, switched, and the new style was life changing. If so please share.

After seven years with a Rocna, and now seven years with a Vulcan, I have found that it is a bit easier to set the Vulcan. Maybe the weighted tip, or the angle…? In soft mud, where the Rocna might have “ sailed” a bit during a set, I can idle in reverse with the Vulcan and it will keep going deeper until the boat stops.
In sand the Vulcan appears to set a bit quicker and more aggressively. Occasionally I will get in the water with a mask and watch as my wife sets the anchor. The Vulcan often sets in its own length and aligns upright quickly. The Rocna often completed a set while still lying a bit to one side or another. Not sure it mattered.
In Bahamas sand, the Vulcan mostly disappears, with just a bit of the crown and the arch in the shank showing. At 7:1 or so, the design of the anchor pulls the end of the shank and the first part of the chain below the sand. In a reversal, the chain rides over the top of the shank. Gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling on a windy night.
Once set, neither has ever dragged, except…. One time anchored with the Rocna in weedy sand we had a reversal and the anchor failed to reset. When I raised it, I had quite a ball of sod stuck in the hoop. I switched to the Vulcan to avoid the hoop.
Our experience is mostly either the Chesapeake (mud) or the Bahamas and Caribbean ( mostly sand, Sandy weed or sand over marl). Not much experience with rocky bottoms.
After all that, I think the Rocna you have is fine, just needs a bit of finesse to get it set in soft mud.

 

[psneeld]

My roll bar Manson Supreme never had tide/wind shift issues, it usually dropped and snap held instantly when dropped in a current, never drug except when setting short scope a few times in the soupy mud of Georgetown, SC (worst I have seen Jersey to Florida including all of the Chesapeake)...but held once set after a try or two.....and never seemed to foul with mud too bad (I did spray the face with cold galvanizing to be slicker and provide a wear coat.

My friends and acquaintances along the way seemed to feel the same way.

Not saying it's better than any other Nexgen anchor, just never had the problems some seemed to have with it. I wouldn't be afraid of having just about any of them.