You're gonna lose a TON when you sell it...

[AZ2Loop]

Over the years we have owned 9 boats that I can recall. We still own two of them, so we have sold 7 boats. All 7 were actually sold for more than we paid for them. Not enough to get excited about, and not enough to really care about, but I guess it's better than "losing a ton." We enjoy boating so much we really do not care about losing money doing so, but it just hasn't worked out that way. I still consider any boat we own to be worth $0. I consider the money to be "gone". It's not, but I like to look at it that way.

 

[Simi 60]

."

Trying to make life all about dollars and cents or profits and losses will eliminate 90% of those things that bring us pleasure and enjoyment.

For some that may be the case but not all.

Making financially responsible decisions and purchases throughout our life has allowed us to enjoy overseas holidays for months at a time instead of days
it has allowed us to do it without getting into debt
It has given us decades of our life back to do what we want when we want it

Vs

a life of going to work to pay off debt but having a pile of shiny toys that you never have time to use.

 

[smitty477]

True
If I wanted a pet I'd get a free cat

Not married but with the same woman for 30+ years
I don't understand why, aside from the cost of the wedding, marriage means expense.

Hobbies don't have to be expensive
Some can actually make money

Never had to buy friends
Why would they cost?

Quite the opposite

I see you knew I was joking - your a kidder as well.
Cheers

 

[Codger2]

I sold all of those boats for close to what I paid. Quality boats IF PROPERLY MAINTAINED hold their value fairly well. Now what i have spent to maintain them is another story.

I have had similar experiences with the last 10 boats I've owned. Although I enjoyed higher than market on all of them, I am embarrassed to admit what I spent to keep them in top shape.

 

[BandB]

For some that may be the case but not all.

Making financially responsible decisions and purchases throughout our life has allowed us to enjoy overseas holidays for months at a time instead of days
it has allowed us to do it without getting into debt
It has given us decades of our life back to do what we want when we want it

Vs

a life of going to work to pay off debt but having a pile of shiny toys that you never have time to use.

I definitely encourage financial responsibility, but for most people, if they make it all about finances, they will never own a boat.

 

[Lou_tribal]

For some that may be the case but not all.

Making financially responsible decisions and purchases throughout our life has allowed us to enjoy overseas holidays for months at a time instead of days
it has allowed us to do it without getting into debt
It has given us decades of our life back to do what we want when we want it

Vs

a life of going to work to pay off debt but having a pile of shiny toys that you never have time to use.

Don't mind me as I am not against your point of view but everything depend on our own concept of life.
Depends where you are living, as an example, up here what you are living is not possible year round.
Some may like the work they do and not find it a constraint.
Some may love their toys so much that working to pay them is ok.
Finally, money does not grow on trees (unfortunately) so even if now what you have is enough for your way of living, at a point in time you had to work and save (or inherit). Maybe for you things went well so you worked just the right amount of time so to save enough to live your dream life, but things are not the same for all. I know or knew quite some who worked hard and saved every penny to retire early and live their dream life but passed away or got hit hard by various decease before getting there.
So where is the truth?
Be financial responsible so to get there, or enjoy your life before it is too late?
No right or wrong way except you are an oracle and see the future.
For me the way is the middle one like anything else, a well balance equilibrium between enjoy now and save for later, and enjoy life as you never know how many days you have left in your life account.

L

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Here your first link to help you in your travels....

https://harvesthosts.com/host-locations/

 

[Art]

Let's see...

We own: Two boats right now. Sold a third [Blue Water 19' cuddy cabin ski boat] last week. Have real nice 25' RV. Drive around during weekends in a 1967, 400 hp classic muscle car [owned her for 23 yrs]. Have two SUV's. Also have a really nice high performance, 4 spd, 1985 classic 1 ton, 4wd, Chevy Cheyenne PU truck. Then there's the houses... sold one a few months ago [owned it for 32 years]. Not a penny owed on anything.

The last sentence above is to us the important one. Reason we don't owe... is three fold... 1. We buy right, 2. We pay cash, 3. We sell right.

Only expenses we have is maintenance. When #'s 1-3 are followed prodigiously. with their bounds always kept well in-hand... life is pretty easy; and, fun too!

 

[MurrayM]

1 boat. 2 sea kayaks. 1 vehicle with a 4x9 cargo trailer tricked out to sleep in. Live in 1 side of a duplex. No debt. Retired early with a reduced pension.

Happy & humble

Pondering the sale of Badger next year, maybe, to fund new dreams/adventures. Will consider any money 'lost' as the price of admission to The Grand Show.

We get phone calls occasionally from people walking the docks, wondering if Badger is for sale. Just got one this morning. Shouldn't be too hard, except for the emotional part...

 

[GFC]

Thanks Tom. I joined HH a couple of months ago as well as a discount program for diesel purchases.

I'm headed off tomorrow for Hood River to look at a 35' coach. Not keeping my fingers crossed but it looks decent in the photos. Last Tuesday I drove from here to Everett to look at 2 RV's then headed home. 502 miles round trip. Went pretty quick, most of it was freeway and most of that was well over 70.

 

[RickyD]

Best ways to save a lot of money....
- don't have kids
- don't get married
- don't have hobbies
- don't have friends

Did I miss any?

Don't get a divorce.

 

[johnrupp]

Best ways to save a lot of money....
- don't have kids
- don't get married
- don't have hobbies
- don't have friends

Did I miss any?

Don’t drink

 

[rolomart3]

A good rule of thumb on boat prices

It is my observation that on average, the price of a new boat halves every 8 years. So a 24-year old boat that sold new for $1.6M should sell for $200,000. Anything above thsy amount is just an asking price hoping to a find a fool willing to part ways with his money.
It has all those Modernizing extras you say? Just add them to the original price if they were available and discount by time. If they were not originally available you will be assuming form, fit and function risk.

Fractional ownership of a boat may be a better option. Increasingly yachts and white elephants are looking much more similar.

 

[GFC]

rolo, there's one big flaw in your calculation about the value of boats. You are assuming the depreciation for toys (boats/cars/planes/RV's) happens at a constant. The first few years of a toy's life suffer from heavy depreciation that can easily run 10% or more per year. That rate of depreciation holds for about the first ~5 years. Then the rate slows to about 5%-7% for the next several years. Only after it's about 10 years old does the depreciation rate normally drop below 5% and it holds fairly steady thereafter.

YMMV

 

[koliver]

rolo, there's one big flaw in your calculation about the value of boats. You are assuming the depreciation for toys (boats/cars/planes/RV's) happens at a constant. The first few years of a toy's life suffer from heavy depreciation that can easily run 10% or more per year. That rate of depreciation holds for about the first ~5 years. Then the rate slows to about 5%-7% for the next several years. Only after it's about 10 years old does the depreciation rate normally drop below 5% and it holds fairly steady thereafter.

YMMV

I don't think you can assume anything with boats.

My first cruising boat cost me ~20k in 1977. I sold it for 25k in 1988
my second cost 70k in 1988, I sold it for 70k in 1995
my third cost 153k in 1994. I still own it, but in today's market it should be worth within 10% of the same.
Of course the value of the $ has gone down a crazy amount over those years, but that doesn't really track with the depreciation rates on other things, like cars and (I have one of these for sale just now) Motorhomes. Those drop like falling off a cliff.

 

[rolomart3]

rolo, there's one big flaw in your calculation about the value of boats. You are assuming the depreciation for toys (boats/cars/planes/RV's) happens at a constant. The first few years of a toy's life suffer from heavy depreciation that can easily run 10% or more per year. That rate of depreciation holds for about the first ~5 years. Then the rate slows to about 5%-7% for the next several years. Only after it's about 10 years old does the depreciation rate normally drop below 5% and it holds fairly steady thereafter.

YMMV

Dear GFC,
I do not see how it comes to be a constant depreciation given that the loss is half of always a declining amount. So for example, the $1.6M new boat loses half or $800,000 the first 8 years. The second 8 years loses half of the remaining $800,000 value, or $400,000. The third 8 years loses half of the remaining $400,000, or $200,000. Therefore, by the time the boat is 24 years old, it is worth $1.6M - $800,000 - $400,000 - $200,000 which is $200,000.

I have been tracking yacht prices since my first boat in 2001. As a rule of thumb, "half the price every 8 years", it tracks with observed prices decently well.

 

[Boatfever]

Accept your affliction...

First, It's a disease.

Most of us that are on this forum probably have it.
There is no vaccine, no antidote, no known cure. (Well, bankruptcy might do it.)
Accept your affliction and carry on.


Second, If you sold a boat for more than you paid, good on ya. You should be happy and proud of the accomplishment. Most boats I've owned and sold did not turn out that way.
However, any discussion of the cost of boat ownership is incomplete without calculating life cycle cost. (not to mention your sweat equity)

And, hence my general boat ownership rule; Never, Never ever, put pencil to paper to calculate the cost of a pound of caught fish or a day, week, or month of great boating.


Having a boat isn't a matter of life or death. It's more important than that.

 

[Art]

Dear GFC,
I do not see how it comes to be a constant depreciation given that the loss is half of always a declining amount. So for example, the $1.6M new boat loses half or $800,000 the first 8 years. The second 8 years loses half of the remaining $800,000 value, or $400,000. The third 8 years loses half of the remaining $400,000, or $200,000. Therefore, by the time the boat is 24 years old, it is worth $1.6M - $800,000 - $400,000 - $200,000 which is $200,000.

I have been tracking yacht prices since my first boat in 2001. As a rule of thumb, "half the price every 8 years", it tracks with observed prices decently well.

Your $$-value-depreciation formula seems correct for approximately the first 24 years of a boat's life.

"As a rule of thumb, "half the price every 8 years", it tracks with observed prices decently well."

BUT - When the boat [an originally well built and continually well kept boat] passes the 24 yr. mark: From that point the 50% dollar-value reduction per each additional 8 yrs of age becomes either considerably reduced or in even some cases pleasurably reversed.

In other words... my 50 plus years of owning/using classic boats has shown me: The "added age" automatic value-depreciation factor eventually [in 24 years or so] reaches its basic bottom... for an originally well built and continually well kept boat, that is.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Just think how much you "lose" if you never own a boat or RV!
Our boating memories are some of our fondest and we consider them PRICELESS

I don't remember where I heard this story, but I like to tell it:


"When I was a kid, my folks had a savings "pot" with the ostensible purpose of remodeling our master bathroom. Every time they approached the dollar goal for this project, they would take the money and charter a sailboat for a couple weeks.


Looking back, I must say those were the best weeks of my childhood. I doubt that I would have felt the same about a new bathroom."

 

[smitty477]

Dear GFC,
I do not see how it comes to be a constant depreciation given that the loss is half of always a declining amount. So for example, the $1.6M new boat loses half or $800,000 the first 8 years. The second 8 years loses half of the remaining $800,000 value, or $400,000. The third 8 years loses half of the remaining $400,000, or $200,000. Therefore, by the time the boat is 24 years old, it is worth $1.6M - $800,000 - $400,000 - $200,000 which is $200,000.

I have been tracking yacht prices since my first boat in 2001. As a rule of thumb, "half the price every 8 years", it tracks with observed prices decently well.

"I have been tracking yacht prices since my first boat in 2001. As a rule of thumb, "half the price every 8 years", it tracks with observed prices decently well."
Interesting - I was tracking this as well for many years and our experience was that after 8 years or so the then price would begin to go up and at about 15 years it would be close to the orginal value.

 

[MurrayM]

Are people tracking advertised asking prices or what the boats actually got sold for? There would be an interesting comparison there, as it would be influenced by the health (optimism or pessimism) of the background economy.

 

[smitty477]

Are people tracking advertised asking prices or what the boats actually got sold for? There would be an interesting comparison there, as it would be influenced by the health (optimism or pessimism) of the background economy.

Actually sold for.

 

[kierasdady]

It's more fun when it's free.

I'm always bothered by that whole "Best two days..." thing. I'm on boat #5. Made money on all of them. It's all in the buying and not going crazy paying others for big ticket items. Best is ones that look like crap, but have good bones, solid engines or standing rigging/sails. If that's good and you're good with your hands, your chances are very good of loosing little or making money 3, 5, 14 years later. Even better, make it free to keep. Being a boat pimp helps. I use mine for various gigs (race escort, diving, private din. cruises or parties) to cover my expenses. On good years, it covers expenses and my vacations on it. Bad ones, break even. So the best day is when I buy them, and worst is when I sell it. But then, there's always the next one!

 

[Art]

I'm always bothered by that whole "Best two days..." thing. I'm on boat #5. Made money on all of them. It's all in the buying and not going crazy paying others for big ticket items. Best is ones that look like crap, but have good bones, solid engines or standing rigging/sails. If that's good and you're good with your hands, your chances are very good of loosing little or making money 3, 5, 14 years later. Even better, make it free to keep. Being a boat pimp helps. I use mine for various gigs (race escort, diving, private din. cruises or parties) to cover my expenses. On good years, it covers expenses and my vacations on it. Bad ones, break even. So the best day is when I buy them, and worst is when I sell it. But then, there's always the next one!

I like your style!!

 

[rolomart3]

Your $$-value-depreciation formula seems correct for approximately the first 24 years of a boat's life.

"As a rule of thumb, "half the price every 8 years", it tracks with observed prices decently well."

BUT - When the boat [an originally well built and continually well kept boat] passes the 24 yr. mark: From that point the 50% dollar-value reduction per each additional 8 yrs of age becomes either considerably reduced or in even some cases pleasurably reversed.

In other words... my 50 plus years of owning/using classic boats has shown me: The "added age" automatic value-depreciation factor eventually [in 24 years or so] reaches its basic bottom... for an originally well built and continually well kept boat, that is.

You make a good point Art but you are applying the rule of thumb incorrectly. The rule does not apply to antiquarian valuations.

The rule applies to price valuations derived from the functional value of the article (boat). It does not apply to valuations derived from a sentimental value. There are no rule of thumb about the sentimental valuations of boats that I am aware of.
Have you seen a steam pleasure yacht circa 1910 lately? Should it be more or less expensive than one circa 1870? Is a roman war ship more expensive than a spanish carabelle circa the american discovery? How will time affect the valuation of an antique boat? Which museums will create a market for it?
Sentiment about the value of things change unexpectedly and unpredictably.
There is an old concept used by jewelers: the time of sentimental value of pearls should run opposite to that of diamonds. Jewelers then can always purchase back at low prices diamonds in the era of pearls and pearls in the era of diamonds . Then
when they have most of them they change era and sell them at the high price. Of course, there is a functional value of wearing expensive jewelry, thst is, vanity.
Is there any vanity in running an old boat with obsolete technology? Not to my taste. But as the saying goes: Your Methods May Vary (YMMV).

 

[FWT]

Don't ignore the luck factor of buying or selling into strong or weak markets for boats in general or the sort of boat you have.

That's true of homes too. Work has had me move a number of times, so I've owned a string of homes, most of them bought to live in forever but life didn't turn out that way. Currently I own #5 and #6. On some I made money, and on others I lost when I factor in improvements costs. It was all just a matter of how strong the market was at the time of the transactions.

If we get a serious ramp in fuel prices and / or another extended recession, we'll see how well pricing holds then.

 

[rslifkin]

There's also a big adjustment factor for how desirable a given design, builder, or engine package is. You can easily have 2 different 35 year old boats that only had a 10% price difference between them new, but one is now worth twice or more what the other one is. A boat they built a ton of and that only has a limited pool of interested buyers now will be worth much less than a less common design that always has enough interested buyers.

 

[rolomart3]

Are people tracking advertised asking prices or what the boats actually got sold for? There would be an interesting comparison there, as it would be influenced by the health (optimism or pessimism) of the background economy.

Murray,
Others may have a better experience but mine has been that the only price data available is the
asking price.
The problem with sold prices is that usually they are the result of adjustments agreed in negotiations to compensate for deficiencies uncovered during surveys and sea trials. As details of these negotiations are private usually they are bot available. Consequently, it is not possible to accurately assess the true value of the exchange in the transaction.
One hopes that most boats for sale will not have astronomically expensive deficiencies to correct. Therefore, the asking price even if not the actual price as sold, is a good indicator of the perceived value of the purchase.

 

[rolomart3]

There's also a big adjustment factor for how desirable a given design, builder, or engine package is. You can easily have 2 different 35 year old boats that only had a 10% price difference between them new, but one is now worth twice or more what the other one is. A boat they built a ton of and that only has a limited pool of interested buyers now will be worth much less than a less common design that always has enough interested buyers.

Excellent point Rslifkin. This means that one must also examine the reputation of the boat builder, the particular vessel model and even its vintage to determine a fair price.

 

[Art]

You make a good point Art but you are applying the rule of thumb incorrectly. The rule does not apply to antiquarian valuations.

The rule applies to price valuations derived from the functional value of the article (boat). It does not apply to valuations derived from a sentimental value. There are no rule of thumb about the sentimental valuations of boats that I am aware of.
Have you seen a steam pleasure yacht circa 1910 lately? Should it be more or less expensive than one circa 1870? Is a roman war ship more expensive than a spanish carabelle circa the american discovery? How will time affect the valuation of an antique boat? Which museums will create a market for it?
Sentiment about the value of things change unexpectedly and unpredictably.
There is an old concept used by jewelers: the time of sentimental value of pearls should run opposite to that of diamonds. Jewelers then can always purchase back at low prices diamonds in the era of pearls and pearls in the era of diamonds . Then
when they have most of them they change era and sell them at the high price. Of course, there is a functional value of wearing expensive jewelry, thst is, vanity.
Is there any vanity in running an old boat with obsolete technology? Not to my taste. But as the saying goes: Your Methods May Vary (YMMV).

Rodolfo

You mention at beginning of your post: "The rule does not apply to antiquarian valuations." I agree with that statement; regarding truly antique boat years to which you refer in your post above... "Have you seen a steam pleasure yacht circa 1910 lately? Should it be more or less expensive than one circa 1870? Is a roman war ship more expensive than a spanish carabelle circa the American discovery? How will time affect the valuation of an antique boat? Which museums will create a market for it?"

However, it can hardly be said that boats 24 yrs or somewhat older [1997 and somewhat before] are "antiques". They might be called "vintage"; but, they are certainly not an antique! And, IMO... once the every 8 year 50% devaluation [i.e. the $$ value reduction... from a new-boat's sticker price - you use as a calculation] reaches its 3X [24 year duration] leapfrog deprecation - a good-boat's value then levels off. It could be said that 24 year old [and somewhat older boats] have reached full deprecation - from their "new" valuation.

Proof of the matter; I purchased, owned/used for spans of time and then sold:

1. 31' 1973 Uniflite twin screw, sedan, sport fisher - sold 2X my purchase

2. 19' 1982 Malibu ski boat inboard - sold well over my purchase

3. 18' 1988 Blue Water I/O cuddy cabin ski/fisher boat - sold way over my purchase

Currently own:

A. 34' 1977 Tollycraft twin screw tri cabin [bought 2008] believe can match or beat initial purchase price when she's sold

B. 15' 1975 Crestliner. 4 seater runabout [bought 2009] believe will sell for well over purchase price

Outcome: From my experience.. vintage boats built by reputable manufacturers [that are well taken care of] do not depreciate anything like relatively new boats [24 yrs old or younger] do depreciate.

I am a born "horse trader"... sooo... YRMV!!