The Case for Going Slow

32 years ago when we was in the process of the "next boat" who finally became our Long-Cours 62,
we thinking also catamaran because this option could solve two "problem" :
less roll and higher speed for the same amount of diesel.
The perfect example of that for us is the Santorini 65.
But in another hand the beam close for us lot of place we like to enjoy (canal, some river, very narrow entrance ...
Later in 1998 we discuss with Joubert for a motor trimaran ( also with Nigel Irens in 2003)
Ok trimaran's beam could be also a problem but the could be "folded" and you must accept have the volume of a 11m motor boat in a 18/19m lenght hull.
But we can have 12 kts with moderate hp... And very moderate roll..
The last "évolution " : I play to design it is a ( very ?) narrow monohull stabilised like a ...trimaran
But with removal (at less one side) "flotteur".
Of course if one day we built such type of hull we know we must kept her for the rest of our life because nobody will buy this type of motor boat
But in 18/19m x 3.15 m x 0.9m we can fit what we need and if keep her K.I.S.S.

mvweebles said:

Kevin - I did not mean to advocate for slower boats per se, but rather to point out that going slow can often be a faster way to run a boat over a longer distance because the time it takes to take on fuel and navigate entrances. This applies to running a fast boat slow as much as a slow boat run slow (if that makes sense).

Another example - I once delivered a Sunseeker 55-ish footer from Seattle to San Francisco. The owner was aboard and wanted to run at cruising speed. We barely made it to Gray's Harbor on its 700 gals of fuel. It was early April and off season. We got there late Saturday afternoon and the fuel dock didn't open until Monday morning. We ran the rest of the way to San Francisco at 8 knots without stopping (vs running at 25 kts and stopping twice).

In my opinion, distance cruising is done fastest by a slow boat. Or perhaps better said, a boat going slow. Occasionally you can day-trip without paying a time penalty for in/out, but i wouldn't bet on it (and I didn't bet on it even when it wasn't my money paying the fuel bill).

Peter .

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I agree with you.

A little while ago I wanted to know some more about what delivery crews do exactly and saw a few videos on Youtube. Quite a few delivery crews only know one power setting and that is almost full throttle. There is one video where they take a boat from Fort Lauderdale to the panhandle and they were just racing from one fuel station to the other. They even had passages where they barely made it to the next fuel station. If they simply would have throttled down it would not have been a problem, but they refused.

The noise (at full throttle) in that boat was deafening and am not sure I could sustain so much noise for so many hours each day. At low speed the boat made about the same noise as my boat, which is acceptable and not too disturbing.

It was a 60 or 65' boat, seas were calm and every single time they came in late afternoon, had to wait until next day to fuel up and start going again. In total I think they had to make 4 or 5 fuel stops.
Then I just googled the fuel burn for that particular boat at 8 and 10 kts, figured out the range and saw that they could have made the whole trip on one tank of fuel, arriving at exactly the same time, or even earlier than the fast guys. The only difference was that then they had to stay out on the water at night.

I have no idea what the fuel price was, but I am pretty sure that 1 tank compared to 4 or 5 fill ups is a bit of a difference. Even when you have enough money I still think the extra money is better spent on good food and good wine. LOL

Seeing the behavior of that delivery crew also made me weary about ever thinking of getting a delivery crew for my boat if I ever would need one. I guess I will just lift the boat out of the water, leave it there until I have time to do it myself.

I agree Peter. Running slow can actually be faster if running slow at 24X7 vs running faster during daylight hours.

Hope all is well, are you in Florida my friend???

ksanders said:

Hope all is well, are you in Florida my friend???

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We are currently in the mountains of Costa Rica staying with an old friend of mine. Weebles is tucked in at Marina Chiapas for the rainy season and we'll return sometime late summer (October-ish). Headed back to Florida next Friday though not sure for how long as we have a ton of places to see.

Are you headed to Ensenada for the summer? As edgy as Ensenada was, we grew to love the town and miss it. With exception of Oaxaca, was the best food we found in Mexico.

Peter

Mambo42 said:

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I have no idea what the fuel price was, but I am pretty sure that 1 tank compared to 4 or 5 fill ups is a bit of a difference.

Seeing the behavior of that delivery crew also made me weary about ever thinking of getting a delivery crew for my boat if I ever would need one.

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Mambo - I always appreciate your non-US contributions. In this case, I'll offer a bit of context.

In all candor, difference between US east and west coasts for running a boat at any distance is remarkable. My sense is, for whatever reason, running a boat overnight on the east coast is strongly avoided, at least for power boats. The east coast also has inside 'ICW' passages that are not really practical to run overnight. That said. I don't know why more boats dont go outside except to say that most owners of planing boats understand the boat has a burn rate and that's just part of the cost of ownership.

On the west coast, recreational boaters strongly avoid running at night too, as do many green/novice delivery crews. Running in daylight hours is fairly workable for recreational boats as they have the luxury of picking weather windows. But I fault delivery crews who do this as it wastes time and frankly exposes them to the strong afternoon seas and winds that are especially difficult.

Unfortunately, there are a bunch of hacks delivering boats. It's unintentional - they just don't know what they don't know. Compounded by customers who have no idea what to look for in a delivery skipper creates a lot of lousy experiences with deliveries. Take heart that if you ever need a boat delivered, there are indeed well qualified skippers who will deliver your boat safely, often in better condition than they began the journey with.

Peter

ksanders said:

Running slow can actually be faster if running slow at 24X7 vs running faster during daylight hours.

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As several have said, the tortoise beats the hare if the tortoise goes 24/7. It's simple math: 24 hrs x 7 kts beats 8 hrs x 15 kts.

That's not feasible for many of us, such as those who (effectively) single-hand as I do, and don't have multiple crews to run 24/7, or with an Admiral who starts getting antsy after 4-5 hours underway.

Your mileage may vary.

Nick - I think it was you up-thread who posted the two circles showing that a circle with 2x diameter has 4x area. When I presented for TrawlerFest - Boat Buying 101 - I used the identical graphic to show that for folks who were looking for a family boat to use on weekends and vacations, consider a faster boat.

My primary reason for diverting this thread was to observe that the article seemed to focus on cost, but there were some good non-financial reasons to go slow: extend range and thereby save on/out time. Obviously, a planing boat can be run at slow speeds to achieve a similar benefit. Just depends how the boat is used.

BTW - my friend with the 52 foot power cat is faced with similar dilemma to you Nick. His significant other has a short attention span and wants to go fast. It's his credit card that pays the fuel bill plus he likes long passages.

Peter

The first thing I thought when I saw the 2 circles is that I'm glad I don't boat in an area like that. I've always had the good fortune of narrows, rivers, spits, tides and currents. Complex navigation with things to look at all along the way. Maybe if every destination was a straight open shot I'd want a fast boat.

mvweebles said:

It's his credit card that pays the fuel bill plus he likes long passages.

Peter

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As the old hot rodder's saying goes, 'speed costs money, how fast do you want to go'?

With my boat, at 7 kts it burns just 1.3 gph. Doubling speed to 14 knots fuel consumption increases 15x, to 20 gph. It's very, very painful to the credit card to make the Admiral happy (but after all, that is the highest priority ). But it does allow getting to more distant destinations, more quickly, giving more time to relax, explore, etc. (though I'd prefer to just be on the water).

Nick14 said:

As the old hot rodder's saying goes, 'speed costs money, how fast do you want to go'?

With my boat, at 7 kts it burns just 1.3 gph. Doubling speed to 14 knots fuel consumption increases 15x, to 20 gph. It's very, very painful to the credit card to make the Admiral happy (but after all, that is the highest priority ). But it does allow getting to more distant destinations, more quickly, giving more time to relax, explore, etc. (though I'd prefer to just be on the water).

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Nick how did you determine 14 knots = 20 gal.
I ask because I am curious to find out what my burn is at say 12 knots versus normal 8 knot but cannot imagine how to do it without filling the tanks, heading out for an hour or more and fill tanks up again.

SteveK said:

Nick how did you determine 14 knots = 20 gal.
I ask because I am curious to find out what my burn is at say 12 knots versus normal 8 knot but cannot imagine how to do it without filling the tanks, heading out for an hour or more and fill tanks up again.

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On my boat gph along with many other engine parameters are displayed on the Cummins screen. It’s all continuously calculated and displayed (but then it’s a 2024 model).

mvweebles said:

We are currently in the mountains of Costa Rica staying with an old friend of mine. Weebles is tucked in at Marina Chiapas for the rainy season and we'll return sometime late summer (October-ish). Headed back to Florida next Friday though not sure for how long as we have a ton of places to see.

Are you headed to Ensenada for the summer? As edgy as Ensenada was, we grew to love the town and miss it. With exception of Oaxaca, was the best food we found in Mexico.

Peter

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Very cool Peter, you guys are doing some great exploring!

Actually we have great news. For Hurricane Season we have been offered a slip in the protected part of the marina, as opposed to our permenant slip which we really love, except for hurricane protection.

So... This year we are going to keep the boat in La Paz, and enjoy the great fishing and snorkeling the area offers in the summer months.

But... We are traveling, just not with the boat. We just got back from Japan, and are heading back to Europe in late may for a several week road trip.

As for our boat travels, Vicky should have her USA Visa in August, and she was just approved for a Canadian Super Visa, so we plan on starting our in depth exploration of the Pacific USA and Canada, including Alaska next spring. This is expected to be a 2-3 year adventure with us doing like you do, travel for a bit, and return home for a rest, then continue our travels.

On that trip we are seriously thinking of bring our jeep along at least through the Puget sound area.

SteveK said:

Nick how did you determine 14 knots = 20 gal.
I ask because I am curious to find out what my burn is at say 12 knots versus normal 8 knot but cannot imagine how to do it without filling the tanks, heading out for an hour or more and fill tanks up again.

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Steve

In my 4788 I get very close to 2 NMPG at 7.5 knots. with each engine burning around 1.75 GPH at 1250 RPM.

If I increase the speed to 15 knots my consumption goes to around .6 to .65 NMPG as my fuel burn in the twin 330's goes to around 12 GPH each.

I have two ways of determining fuel burn. The first and most accurate is as you posted filling up the tank after a run at X RPM. The second is that i have flowscans installed. These are not perfect but give a very good measurement as well. I find the flow scans are more accurate at high RPM and engine loading than low speed BTW.

ksanders said:

On that trip we are seriously thinking of bring our jeep along at least through the Puget sound area.

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Most people we've met are on open ended "follow your nose" cruised. Very high smile factor amongst them.

While Costa Rica is nice, it does not compare to Mexico in our opinion. It's a beautiful country, but tourism is now the core culture of the country - it's the Zipline capital of the world I suppose. And frankly, the food is boring. It's also significantly more expensive than Mexico and just doesn't feel like a great value overall. When we return with Weebles, we will anchor almost exclusively which will be fine as there are a ton of small anchorages and bays, many within parks that are otherwise inaccessible.

As to bringing your jeep with you, you're gonna need a bigger boat.

mvweebles said:

As to bringing your jeep with you, you're gonna need a bigger boat.

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I've actually thought about one of the mini cars I've seen but my crane is limited to 1000 pounds.

The thought is to have Vicky and I leave at the same time, she in the jeep, me moving the boat one harbor north. Then we have a vehicle for exploration, and the boat as our home base.

There is so much to see, and we've watched the cruisers here in La Paz. Few do any real exploring beyond their walking in a morning distance, maybe a couple kilometers.

We might even do overnights in the jeep, depending on our thoughts as the day comes to a close.

Kevin is probably more familiar with getting around Mexico than anyone, but for others, here's what we've experienced for inland travel:

We've rented a car several times, usually split with another cruiser. Rental cars in Mexico and Costa Rica have been more expensive than anticipated - around $125-$150 per day, though a cruiser couple we know recently rented a car for 2-months for $70/day (includes insurance). On the other hand, taxis have been pretty reasonable - often just a few bucks. We've also booked day-long tours in several places, and some places have had decent bus systems to get around (Mazatlan).

We did rent a car several times in the US when we were without a car. In the US, rental cars were relatively affordable ($200/week in San DIego) but the taxis/Ubers were expensive. Enterprise was often a decent choice as they would frequently come pick-up so you don't waste money on a taxi.

Kevin - I don't recall how much time Vicki has spent in the US, but what a great way to introduce her if she's not spent a ton of time, especially the PNW. But even SoCal has some great stops - Marina del Rey would be a good stop, albeit a bit hard on the credit card with all the dining opportunities......

Peter

mvweebles said:

Kevin - I don't recall how much time Vicki has spent in the US, but what a great way to introduce her if she's not spent a ton of time, especially the PNW. But even SoCal has some great stops - Marina del Rey would be a good stop, albeit a bit hard on the credit card with all the dining opportunities......

Peter

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She has never been to the US. Before we met she was focused on building her bakery business, and getting her kids raised and on their own. She hadn't had a day off work in many years. Now, she has managers in place to run the day to day operation, allowing her the time to travel. This was a change that I brought to her life, the idea that life is not all about work and business.

Our thoughts are to start in San Diego and move the boat north approximantly one day a week. This gives us ample time to really explore all that each area has to offer. Of course some stops will be shorter, if we find ourselves not in love with a given area, but that is the nature of travel.

Thinking about this idea, and factoring in her need to return to La Paz every 2-3 weeks to oversee the business and visit the kids puts us in the Puget Sound area around the September timeframe. We wil then weather out the winter storms, and then continue North the next spring.

The rough plan is to start in March of next year since she will have her Visa this August, returning to La Paz as early as Fall 26 maybe later. We will keep our slip here and rent it out assuring us a home port to return to.

Since, at least for many (if not most) of us, fuel is the least expensive part of boat ownership, cost really isn't a consideration for me. My boats have all been used predominantly for offshore fishing. On my last boat, I typically traveled to and from the tuna grounds (generally 60 - 100 nm out of port) at 20-25 knots. In order to arrive at grey light, I would leave port around mid-night. With my current boat, I leave a lot earlier, since I travel at an average of 8.5 knots, but the journey is much more pleasant and anything we would have done at the dock waiting to depart, we can do while underway. With the old boat, no one slept well while underway, but with the new boat (which is stabilized), everyone stands a watch or two, but no one is sleep deprived. I have learned to really prefer displacement speeds (though I have the power and hull form to cruise at 18 knots when necessary).

@ksanders
Kevin, you in the boat and Vicky travelling by car?
Nope, that would not work for me.

SteveK said:

@ksanders
Kevin, you in the boat and Vicky travelling by car?
Nope, that would not work for me.

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100 miles or less at a time, and we get our jeep to use to explore, is a easy peasy solution to the transportation problem.

Count me in the slow goes it group. There is just too much to see and enjoy in our cruising area, if we need to get there fast and miss seeing all the surroundings we will take the ferry.

Peter / @mvweebles -

How often do you need/want/wish you could run at 20 knots?

The second year of owning our 50-footer we slowed down to slightly under hull speed (about 7.5 knots) as we were buddy-boating with an older Grand Banks. We fell in love with the relaxed pace. My wife could relax, read, catch up on emails, and enjoyed cuddling with our cat in the pilothouse while I drove from the flybridge. I had music playing, fresh hot coffee in the morning and ice water in the afternoons.

I had plenty of time to enjoy the scenery, watch out for deadheads, and watch my course on my nav screen. It became our preferred way to travel. There were times, coming home from a long weekend, my wife would ask me to drop down to no-wake speed just so we could be on the water for another hour or two before getting to our home port.

We've since sold our boat, but this thread made me realize how much I miss it.

leecallen said:

Peter / @mvweebles -

How often do you need/want/wish you could run at 20 knots?

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Desire to run 20-kts? Never. I personally do not enjoy going that fast. I do recall being on a friend's boat when he cranked up to close to 20-kts for a half hour to make a bridge opening. I suppose that if it were my boat I'd have done the same thing, but I like life at jogging speed.

That said, my favorite boat I've spent time on is the Nordhavn 57, partially because it's a relatively fast boat. She'll run 9-kts at 6-gph to Hawaii. Being able to run +200 nms in a 24-hr period opens a lot of doors and really eases trip planning compared to 7-kts

Peter

My wife loves to go slowly, never fast. For me, once in a while I would like to go fast but fast for my boat is 9.5knots WOT on both engines.

There is a lot of talk here about fuel economy. When I bought Aquarius I had no idea what my fuel burn would be. My old 47 got about 1 gallon per nmile. My brother has Fuel Scan on his 48' Offshore with 375 hp Cats and got 1 gallon per nmile. I don't know my boats waterline. If I was to measure it I'm not even sure if I just take a right angle off the dock for water intersection at the bow and stern and measure that or do I include the curvature. So, I looked at the torque vs RPM curve and found that right about 1700 to 1800 it was flattening out. Then cruising from a fuel fill in LA Harbor down to Ensenada MX and back 1750 RPM was about 10 knots SOG. On my return I filled up again and with dividers in hand I tried to add up the number of miles traveled. Of course there is a lot of weaving and course changes along the way but it worked out to 1 nmile per gallon. Then I looked over a much longer period of time I looked at gallons purchased and hours of engine use and it came out to 7.7 gallons per hour. At first I thought that was crazy but then there is idling and very slow going in the marina. After almost 500 hours of use I think I'm on the money. But I'd still like to know my exact water line length.

RickyD said:

There is a lot of talk here about fuel economy. When I bought Aquarius I had no idea what my fuel burn would be. My old 47 got about 1 gallon per nmile. My brother has Fuel Scan on his 48' Offshore with 375 hp Cats and got 1 gallon per nmile. I don't know my boats waterline. If I was to measure it I'm not even sure if I just take a right angle off the dock for water intersection at the bow and stern and measure that or do I include the curvature. So, I looked at the torque vs RPM curve and found that right about 1700 to 1800 it was flattening out. Then cruising from a fuel fill in LA Harbor down to Ensenada MX and back 1750 RPM was about 10 knots SOG. On my return I filled up again and with dividers in hand I tried to add up the number of miles traveled. Of course there is a lot of weaving and course changes along the way but it worked out to 1 nmile per gallon. Then I looked over a much longer period of time I looked at gallons purchased and hours of engine use and it came out to 7.7 gallons per hour. At first I thought that was crazy but then there is idling and very slow going in the marina. After almost 500 hours of use I think I'm on the money. But I'd still like to know my exact water line length.

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Most MFDs will have an odometer built into one of the sub menus. Many also have a trip odometer as well. As they use miles over the bottom based on GPS tracking, they are quite accurate. I zeroed the the odometer when I started cruising and the trip odometer each year. For me, average consumption per mile over a year was sufficient.

For measuring waterline length, use a 25' tape measure next time the boat is tied to a bulkhead or long floating finger pier. Pretty easy to get within a one foot measurement.

Ted

O C Diver said:

Most MFDs will have an odometer built into one of the sub menus. Many also have a trip odometer as well. As they use miles over the bottom based on GPS tracking, they are quite accurate. I zeroed the the odometer when I started cruising and the trip odometer each year. For me, average consumption per mile over a year was sufficient.

For measuring waterline length, use a 25' tape measure next time the boat is tied to a bulkhead or long floating finger pier. Pretty easy to get within a one foot measurement.

Ted

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Well my question was: do I take the measurement at right angles to the bow and stern or actually following the curve of the boat?

RickyD said:

Well my question was: do I take the measurement at right angles to the bow and stern or actually following the curve of the boat?

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Of course I have a newer Furuno Time Zero system and I didn't think of using the track option to determine fuel use. I'll do that next time

RickyD said:

Well my question was: do I take the measurement at right angles to the bow and stern or actually following the curve of the boat?

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Straight line measurement (no need to curve toward the bow) and only length of the wetted surface.

You can usually eyeball a line perpendicular to the keel at the bow waterline, then measure from where that imaginary perpendicular line intersects where you're standing on the dock.

-Chris